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Topic: Receiver asking for credit back...

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Subject: Receiver asking for credit back...
Date Posted: 7/19/2009 9:27 PM ET
Member Since: 5/11/2009
Posts: 2
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I sent a book and the receiver states that it does not meet PBS requirements and is requesting the credit back.  I understand if the book really was sent out in that condition then I would gladly give the credit back. However, I know this particularily book. It happened to be a book that I purchased used a few years ago and have used it as a reference only a couple of times for our homeschool. So I am a little baffled to hear the the spine is ripped and the pages fell out after a few reads.

I am not sure what to do. I understand that the "help" section says if you were wrong to give and learn from the mistake but I wasn't wrong. It is really unfair to give the credit back and she keeps the book but yet I have to pay the postage to return the book back to me even though I paid to send it to her. This somehow doesn't sound right. Can someone please help me to process this correctly?

Thank you!

 

 

Date Posted: 7/19/2009 9:37 PM ET
Member Since: 1/28/2007
Posts: 765
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How old is the book?  I think that old books sometimes don't survive the mail journey: http://www.paperbackswap.com/forum/topic.php?t=172720&l=25&ls=0#p3489380

Dan (for Marilyn)

Date Posted: 7/19/2009 9:40 PM ET
Member Since: 1/28/2007
Posts: 765
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Technically it is not your fault if it got busted up in the mail.  Here's some other topics on the subject: http://www.paperbackswap.com/forum/search.php?q=rwap&s_type=s&fid=0&action=search

Date Posted: 7/19/2009 9:46 PM ET
Member Since: 1/29/2006
Posts: 54,837
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This somehow doesn't sound right. Can someone please help me to process this correctly?

You have processed it correctly . Whether you give back the credit is ultimately up to you.  However, you have understood the way the PBS process works.  If you (generic) send a problem book you are supposed to return the credit if/when requested.  If you want the book returned to you, you do have to pay the postage.  At no time does the Requestor have to return a book from a problem transaction at their own cost.   That is simply how the system works.

I hope you and the member can come to an amicable agreement.

Date Posted: 7/19/2009 9:48 PM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2007
Posts: 1,410
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You said "after a few reads."  It sounds like the book was OK when you sent it, and  the receiver marked the book received without a problem.  Now she's asking for her credit back.  Is that the case? 

If it is, I'd say that unfortunately, the book just met the end of its life in her hands.  That's beyond the sender's responsiblility.

Date Posted: 7/19/2009 9:48 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2009
Posts: 6,852
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I would ask her if the package she rec'd the book in was damaged - did it look like this could be damaged by the PO and  politely let her know you remeber this book it was from your personal library so you are baffled and stunned that the book was in the condition - ask if she wouldn't mind sending pictures of the damage because you need to give your self peace of mind.

You are the only one that can make the decision - to return the credit or not and have the RWAP marked resolved.   I have never come across this and if this was the first time it happened I would find out first if the book was damaged by the PO and request pictures for your own peace of mind.  Depending upon their respones will be telling and you can guage how you want to handle it.  I am sorry you are going through this - I hope you can get it resolved.

sorry was going to add something and changed my mind.

 



Last Edited on: 7/19/09 9:57 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 7/20/2009 1:06 AM ET
Member Since: 7/5/2007
Posts: 2,141
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the "a few reads" quirked my eyebrow, too.  One would infer from this that the recipient had sufficient time to thumb through, if not read, several times, whereupon pages began to fall out.  In my mind, once you start reading it past the initial inspection, you've accepted that whatever happens to the book is on your hands.  Case in point:  I received a copy of Confessor by Terry Brooks.  It passed my initial inspection.  I submitted that it arrived, etc, and immediately began to start reading it.  The binding creaked when I opened it.  When I closed it to take a break, I moved from the opposite side, and the glue holding the back cover to the binding went "SNAP!" and the cover separated from the binding.  It is very likely an easy repair for a librarian, but a librarian I am not, so I accepted that I had received this book and mine was the "Last Read".

My other thought is that perhaps she left the book where the kids could get to it, and that it is indeed damaged...

Also, did she report it as a RWAP?  You've referred to her only asking for her credit back.  I'm just wondering if she accepted it and is now complaining about it after the fact.  If it is not a RWAP, you have no obligation to do anything.

Keep in mind, that you do not -have- to send her the credit back.  If you are honest and are indeed sure of the condition of the book you sent, one unresolved mark isn't going to harm you. 

Date Posted: 7/20/2009 1:32 AM ET
Member Since: 12/7/2005
Posts: 7,143
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I would also ask for pictures of it. If she gives an excuse, then she is likely lying.

Date Posted: 7/20/2009 8:32 AM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,599
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I agree--if you know for absolute certain that the book met guidelines when you posted it, then stick to your guns and don't refund the credit. If it's something you aren't sure about, I would refund the credit and move on, and I wouldn't ask for the book back--why pay postage to get a book back that you've already read and (according to the receiver) you would not be able to re-post again.

I'm also suspicious of the "after a few reads" part. They should be checking the book over WHEN THEY GET IT, and determining then if the book met guidelines. If they read the book (especially if it's been read 'a few times') and then problems occur with the book, that is NOT your problem! The condition of the book when they receive it is what counts.

Cheryl

Date Posted: 7/20/2009 9:06 AM ET
Member Since: 2/28/2007
Posts: 2,164
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Maybe I am wrong, but I think Karen is saying that SHE read the book a few times, not the recipient.

Date Posted: 7/20/2009 9:14 AM ET
Member Since: 10/6/2005
Posts: 10,707
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I'm confused about the "few reads" as well. How long has the recipient had the book? If it has been days or weeks since she received it, she certainly has no right to blame you for any damage now.

If you sent the book recently, is it possible she got this copy from someone else who sent it but didn't mark it mailed, and the request rolled over to you? And now because it is your book on her account page, she is blaming you for the damaged book but you aren't the one who sent it, and maybe she hasn't even received your copy yet? I just had this happen to me recently - I sent an almost new book and had it marked RWAP, the receiver accused me of sending a book full of writing and highliting which I knew wasn't the case since I was the only owner, I'd only bought the book a few weeks previously, and I NEVER write in my books. Turned out the first copy she had ordered had timed out but the other person HAD sent the book, and that was the bad copy she had received. I HATE when that happens because then an innocent party gets an RWAP (even if marked resolved its still on your account) and someone who did break the rules doesn't get an RWAP against them.



Last Edited on: 7/20/09 9:17 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/20/2009 10:41 AM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Last Edited on: 10/22/09 12:11 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/20/2009 11:20 AM ET
Member Since: 5/15/2005
Posts: 1,328
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Did you open it and page through it when you were packing it to mail? Binding separations can occur  with time passing even when a book is just sitting around.

I had a book that was perfectly fine six months ago when I read it and then listed it. It was recently requested and when I pulled it to ship it, I paged through it and found a nice chunk of pages that while still bound to each other, were completely unbound from the spine.  I could just lift an entire section of pages right out right out of the book. Had I not paged through it again before shipping, I would have sent the book and been postive it was in great condition.  

Date Posted: 7/20/2009 12:40 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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This question is confusing as written, so it's hard to give a concise answer without more details.  Is this an open RWAP transaction in your transaction archive, or is it something the receiver marked received already & is now coming back to you with this problem?  If they just recently got the book and marked it RWAP when they got it, then it's still open and you need to work with them to see if the problem can be resolved.  It's not enough just to think that a book should be in acceptable condition because you only read it a few times, and you can't be 100% sure that a book is in acceptable condition unless you checked it over thoroughly before you mailed it out.  The USPS can and does damage books in transit, and if you suspect this is what happened, you should ask the receiver what condition the packaging was in; was it ripped, crushed, etc.  If they tell you the packaging was intact and undamaged, you can ask them for pictures of the damage to the book, which they can post online at photobucket or another free image hosting site and send you a link to.  If your receiver is fully cooperative with your efforts to find out exactly what went wrong, my best advice is to refund their credit & move on.  That's the standard procedure here.  If you want the book back, you are the party responsible for the cost of return postage.  That might seem unfair from your POV right now, but receivers shouldn't have to lose a credit or be out the cost of return postage when they receive an unpostable book.  A sender being out the cost of postage + the unpostable book, according to the site rules, is the incentive to make sure the books you send meet the book condition guidelines.  IF this is a case of the receiver marking this book received normally & then contacting you and asking for a credit refund after they read the book a few times, it's their problem and not yours.



Last Edited on: 7/20/09 12:43 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/20/2009 6:20 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
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<<I would also ask for pictures of it. If she gives an excuse, then she is likely lying.>>

While asking for photos is fine, calling someone that can't provide them a liar is a bit of a stretch.  Not everyone has access to a digital or webcam they can use to upload photos online, and it would be impractical from a cost perspective to expect someone to take photos with a standard camera, have them developed, scanned, etc.

Karen, ultimately only you know how the book left your house, if you looked closely at the binding before shipping, how securely it was packed, etc.  One RWP transaction won't ruin anyone's account.  Use your own conscience and judgement here.

Cheers,

Catt

Date Posted: 7/20/2009 7:13 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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The OP just joined 2 months ago so it has to be a fairly recent transaction. 

Date Posted: 7/21/2009 2:30 AM ET
Member Since: 1/12/2009
Posts: 262
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While asking for photos is fine, calling someone that can't provide them a liar is a bit of a stretch.  Not everyone has access to a digital or webcam they can use to upload photos online,.....

Thank you, Elizabeth, for that statement!  If anyone needed pictures of anything, I would be in BIG trouble.  It could be done, through relatives, but it wouldn't be easy and maybe not worth it in the end.  The idea of photos to prove you are not lying is a little offputting anyway.   That type of accusation is pretty harsh, IMO.  This is a book club, not a court of law!     :)    D.

Date Posted: 7/21/2009 9:03 AM ET
Member Since: 1/28/2007
Posts: 765
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Well perhaps she misspoke with the no-picture/no-truth statement by not taking into account that some of us are technically challenged.  But I’ll bet she has a heck of a good gumbo!
Date Posted: 7/23/2009 11:17 AM ET
Member Since: 3/30/2008
Posts: 349
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Reading these posts makes me wonder if I should verify with the requestor every time there is a crease or something or maybe send a picture of the book (especially with older books)

Date Posted: 7/23/2009 11:41 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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Gini: the majority of swaps on PBS go smoothly. People only post about the bad ones to vent and ask advice. So if you come ot the boards it seems like there's all these horrible swaps going on but really it's a small percentage.  People don't normally come on and post about the ones that went off without a hitch.  So if your books meet posting guidelines don't worry about PMing people to describe every possible flaw.

Date Posted: 7/23/2009 12:35 PM ET
Member Since: 5/15/2005
Posts: 1,328
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I think a quick review of the book by the sender before mailing can eliminate a number of problem swaps.

Date Posted: 7/23/2009 1:21 PM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,599
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I agree--don't be put off. Usually complaints are what get talked about. The majority of swaps go perfectly smoothly, but because that is "business as usual" people don't talk about it much. (As an example, I've had over 1300 transactions sent and another 1300+ received with problem swaps less than 10.)

So, IMO, as long as your book meets PBS posting guidelines, you should not need to be contacting folks ahead of time about minor flaws that do not render the book non-postable. You then start running into the "what do I do if I don't hear back from the person before I'm supposed to mail it?" dilemma. And if the book meets guidelines, and if the sender doesn't have pre-existing RCs but you PM about these minor flaws and they decide they don't want you to send the book with the crease in the cover, or an ex-library sticker or whatever you were querying about, and they ask you to cancel, then you have to decide whether to do that--if you do, you lose the place in the FIFO queue for no reason at all...it just makes things unnecessarily complicated.

Cheryl

Date Posted: 7/23/2009 8:03 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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Gini - the others above are right; the majority of your swaps are going to be fine.  Taking extra measures often just leads to other unforseeable complications, and I think it's best to just keep it simple.  I think the people who worry the most about their books being good enough to swap here are the ones who will have fewer problems.  Sometimes you see people who seem to have a small run of bad luck, but that's usually about the extent of it.  As Mary said up there, you don't see much about the successful swaps; it's usually the negative experiences that people need to vent about.  If I see too many swapping horror stories, I just go read a dozen or two member testmonials and things sorta shift back into perspective:P



Last Edited on: 7/23/09 8:04 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/23/2009 11:38 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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I have to chime in here.  (Of course!)  This particular forum is the one where people who are confused come to ask questions.  It is the forum where angry upset people come to verify what should be done in a bad situation.  It is the forum where people come to vent about a bad trade.  It usually isn't the forum where people come to tell us what a great trade they had today or how wonderful the person who sent the wrong book sent a credit immediately to them to send it on and to the other person to send the first person's book to her.  People get heated up about situations and need to vent or be told how to handle something.  People get confused and need help.  People want to learn what to do to avoid some problems.  But all in all this forum is here to troubleshoot on a person by person basis.  It is the "exhaust" system forum for PBS.  Don't let others' troubles scare you into doing unnecessary things or into not doing trades.  If every member does what the rules and guidelines say, there is very little room for problems (not counting the USPS in the mix!).

Ruth



Last Edited on: 7/23/09 11:39 PM ET - Total times edited: 1