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Topic: Refunding Credit Unfair

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Subject: Refunding Credit Unfair
Date Posted: 4/29/2012 5:43 PM ET
Member Since: 3/8/2009
Posts: 16
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Hello,

I list all my books via ISBN, never by just book title.  Someone requested a book but when they received it, they marked it received with a problem because it was not the book they thought it was.  They are requesting a credit refund.  The book I sent was the correct one for the ISBN listed.  Why should I be penalized because they requested the wrong book?  Then I would be without the book and minus a credit.  Has anyone else run into this?

Date Posted: 4/29/2012 5:52 PM ET
Member Since: 12/3/2005
Posts: 3,328
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While it is important that the ISBN match, there are other factors that the system asks you to verify prior to posting a book:

This is how your book listing will appear in the PBS library.
Do the Title, Author, ISBN and Book Type match your book EXACTLY?

If either the title, author or book type didn't match what was sent, then the receiver is justified in the RWAP and can request the credit to be returned.  You have the right to refuse to return the credit which may lead to a 2nd mark on your account for the situation not being resolved. 

If the receiver just thought it would be different or has different cover art (but all 4 criteria from above are correct) then I would let them know that it was posted correctly and ask them to mark the item RWAP in error.

Best of luck.

Subject: Matched Exactly
Date Posted: 4/29/2012 6:30 PM ET
Member Since: 3/8/2009
Posts: 16
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Yes, the Title, Author, ISBN, and Book Type matched exactly.  The cover image even matched if I remember correctly.  The requestor thought it was a workbook when it was not.  In the book review section of the PBS page for the book, it even points out that it is "This is the teacher's manual & lesson plans." as does the book's listing on Amazon.  It is the right book and there are two other members wishing for it.  I sent the member a message that it was the correct book, but if it was not the book she wanted, she could either list it for the members waiting for it or she could mail it back to me, I would refund her credit when I got it back and then I would list it again.  That still doesn't seem right since I will have to pay shipping on the book twice because of someone else's error to end up with one credit though.

Date Posted: 4/29/2012 6:37 PM ET
Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,995
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 I would refund her credit when I got it back and then I would list it again.

This is not allowed. You can either refuse to refund the credit, or you agree to refund the credit immediately and unconditionally. If you do want the book back, you can offer to give the receiver and extra credit to return it (which they have the right to refuse), and which also must be given before they return it.

Personally, I'd just refuse to return their credit, period. You already confirmed that the book you sent is exactly as listed. It was the receiver's mistake, not yours. 

Date Posted: 4/29/2012 6:45 PM ET
Member Since: 8/19/2007
Posts: 4,240
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Michelle - if all the criteria were met you don't have to refund the credit.  However, unless you send her reimbursement  for postage or a credit to reimburse her to send it back to you, she's not required to send it back (per PBS rules) and you have to send the reimbursement or credit prior to her sending you the book back.  So, if she agrees to send it back to you you'd need to send her another credit, she'd mail the book and you could then post it for another wisher to order from you.  In the end you wouldn't be out anything - you got a credit from her to ship the book; you'd send a credit to her to return the book to you; you then would get a credit for shipping it to the next wisher.  Good luck. Pat

Date Posted: 4/29/2012 6:51 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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This is not allowed. You can either refuse to refund the credit, or you agree to refund the credit immediately and unconditionally. If you do want the book back, you can offer to give the receiver and extra credit to return it (which they have the right to refuse), and which also must be given before they return it. 

Requiring the book to be returned before the initial credit is returned is not allowed when the sender is in error. Since this sounds like the receiver is wrong I don't think it applies. The sender has the right to completely refuse to return the credit if it is not their error, if they are willing to make arrangements to refund the credit under certain conditions even when they don't have to, I see nothing wrong with that.

Michelle and John - if you posted the book correctly and all of the 4 key points matched exactly, you have no obligation to refund the credit. The requester's error in not checking closely at what they ordered is not your error. If there is something on the listing in one of the fields that didn't have to match- like the description -that might have led them to believe it was something different, a data edit might be warranted on the listing, but you do not owe them a credit. If anything in title was wrong that made it sound like the workbook, that would require a credit refund. If it wasn't the title, you seem to be justified to not return it to me

Date Posted: 4/29/2012 6:52 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Michelle - if all the criteria were met you don't have to refund the credit.

If everything matched, and the book met guidelines, then there's nothing wrong with not refunding a credit. You don't have to do so just because someone asks you to. If you're in the right, stick to your guns, deny the refund, let them know why (politely but firmly), then just move on. If TPTB ever have an occation to look up the transaction they'll see your (polite) refusal and see what happened.

However, unless you send her reimbursement  for postage or a credit to reimburse her to send it back to you, she's not required to send it back (per PBS rules) and you have to send the reimbursement or credit prior to her sending you the book back.

Yes, this. You can't hold her credit hostage for return of the book. Either return it or not, and keep the return of the book a seperate deal, at your expense. But she never has to agree to its return. That's up to her.

Date Posted: 4/29/2012 7:30 PM ET
Member Since: 3/8/2009
Posts: 16
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So it seems like most peole are saying that I have to pay to send the book to her, then pay the postage for her to return it since she requested the wrong book.  I've been a member for over 3 years and have never run into this problem before but that seems like a crock to pay shipping on the book twice, plus refund the credit in advance so that I can list it again for the people with it on their wish list and pay to ship it a third time.  In the end, I would net one credit but spend over $10 in postage (to ship 3 times).  Beside that, the book wasn't even mine.  I bought it at a garage sale because people had it on their wish list.  I thought I was being helpful. The cost of the book, shipping supplies and postage totaled more than just buying a PBS credit.  So much for being helpful.

Date Posted: 4/29/2012 7:34 PM ET
Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,995
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Yea, asking for a book return really isn't worth it, unless it's something rare and wonderful.

Date Posted: 4/29/2012 7:46 PM ET
Member Since: 3/8/2009
Posts: 16
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It's not rare or wonderful, it's just a book some parents use in homeschooling.

Date Posted: 4/29/2012 8:18 PM ET
Member Since: 5/15/2005
Posts: 1,328
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So it seems like most peole are saying that I have to pay to send the book to her, then pay the postage for her to return it since she requested the wrong book. 

I read through the responses and I don't see anyone saying that at all. If you listed it correctly, respond via PM and politely tell him/her that the title, author, binding and ISBN matched, and that the site's listing requirements were met, so you won't be returning the credit.

It's only the asking of the other member to return the book before credit is given that some are questioning.

Date Posted: 4/29/2012 8:47 PM ET
Member Since: 7/28/2006
Posts: 4,980
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This hadn't been mentioned before, so I just wanted to say that even if the other member refuses to mark the RWAP as being in error, one RWAP on your account is not going to jeopardize your membership.  So if you're certain you weren't in error (which it sounds like you were) politely refuse to return the credit and move on.  They spent a credit on the book, they can keep the book, and you don't have to worry about it anymore. 

Date Posted: 4/29/2012 9:07 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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I wouldn't refund the credit since it sounds like the mistake was on the receivers end. I wouldn't have even offered a credit back if she sends the book back. She can post the book and figure out which one is the correct one for her to order. 

If she refuses to mark it resolved then you could contact PBS. I don't know if they'd do anything.

One unresolved transaction won't harm your account.  They can see the PMs that went back and forth and that the requestor ordered the wrong book.  I had someone RWP me for sending them a hardcover when they ordered an audiobook.  They misread the listing or something because I sent exactlyl what was posted and only go 1 credit not 2 like you get for audiobooks.  This was before the option of marking things resolved.  But the PMs connected to it show that it was the requestors fault not mine and that's what matters.

Date Posted: 4/29/2012 9:09 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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Also I don't see where anyone says you should be out a credit and postage to have her mail the book back. They were just pointing out what normally happens when the sender wants the receiver to send the book back when it's damaged.  In this case, if she wants to send it back to get her credit back she shoujld pay the postage.  Which doesn't really make sense since she can just post the book and mail it to another wisher.

 



Last Edited on: 4/29/12 9:10 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/29/2012 10:38 PM ET
Member Since: 3/8/2009
Posts: 16
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I see several places mention of reimbursing the reciever for postage to send the book back to me for her credit and that I have to give the credit before I get the book back, but since others don't see it, I must be over-reacting.  I did contact PBS about it.  I've never had a RWAP strike, and even if one won't hurt my account, I don't want it there.  I sent the right book.  I've never had a RWAP strike on SwapaDVD or SwapaCD either and  I have 100% positive feedback on eBay and like my track record that way.  I'll see how PBS responds to my contact.  Thanks everyone for your input.

Date Posted: 4/29/2012 11:00 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,327
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People are saying that if you actually want the book back, you should pay for postage. Or you could order it from her, I guess.  But if you don't really want the book back (and that's my understanding -- perhaps you were thinking about taking the book back as a favor to her) don't ask her to return it to you.  If she wants to return the book to you and you don't want it, tell her no thanks, but mention that she can get a credit for it by posting it, and that it will go to someone who wants it.

You could ask her to look at the listing for the book she ordered -- she'll find it in her transaction archive -- and to tell you if there was a difference between the listing -- specifically the title, author, ISBN, and book type -- and the book she received.  That may help clarify things for her.

If she says there's a difference between the book and the listing in the 4 essentials, you could ask her to take a picture of the book (for example, of the ISBN on the book, or the cover showing the title) and to post it on a free site like photobucket, and send you the link.

Date Posted: 4/30/2012 12:29 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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So it seems like most peole are saying that I have to pay to send the book to her, then pay the postage for her to return it since she requested the wrong book.

If you sent her the wrong book, then yes you would need to pay the postage to get the book back. It wouldn't be fair to a receiver to have to pay to send a book back that they didn't request in the first place.  If you didn't send her the wrong book, but it fact have it posted correctly by ALL 4 key points and not just the ISBN, then it is her own error and no, you don't need to pay to get it back. But the easiest resolution would be to just not refund the credit rather than having her mail it back to get the credit back.

Date Posted: 4/30/2012 8:29 AM ET
Member Since: 2/15/2006
Posts: 284
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Michelle, this happened to me recently. I sent a book, posted by ISBN, and the requesting member had made her selection by the cover art. She had no RC about cover art, she just didn't get what she thought she asked. I sent her the help docs and she accused me of being rude. More than once. With the help of folks here, this is the final message I sent her. She did not respond to this message but she did mark it resolved. I did not send her a credit. Nor did I offer to accept the book back. I had also decided that I was done. If she replied again, I was contacting the powers that be.

Hi, if you want to double check the transaction information, you can click on "Transaction Archive" on the yellow bar on your main page. From there, if you click on the book you ordered, you can see that you ordered ISBN "978-0-446-21078-9", which is what I sent to you. Since I did send a book that matches the ISBN that you ordered, I would like you to mark this issue Resolved.

The best way to ensure that you get the exact copy that matches your class is to use a RC on your book request to describe the exact copy that you want, as it seems obvious that for this book, the publisher has reissued it, with the same ISBN, but with different covers and different pagination. This is quite common, and is one of the reasons that PBS states in it's rules that the cover and publication date does not need to match the PBS book listing, as books get reissued frequently. Only the ISBN (and title, author, and binding type) needs to match. Hopefully this infomation will help you to obtain a copy of the book that works for you.

 

Date Posted: 4/30/2012 1:17 PM ET
Member Since: 10/13/2007
Posts: 36,445
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PBS can see your PMs about it so they can see that SHE requested the wrong book by admitting she thought it was the workbook.

I'd not return her credit or ask her to send the book back. Not worth the hassle. You did as the rules state and everything matched. Its up to her, to do whatever with the book now, since you told her it is a wish listed book, she can deal with sending it on.

 

Date Posted: 4/30/2012 1:34 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1,442
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re: So it seems like most peole are saying that I have to pay to send the book to her, then pay the postage for her to return it since she requested the wrong book.

Michelle,

I think people are responding to this comment from your OP:  I sent the member a message that it was the correct book, but if it was not the book she wanted, she could either list it for the members waiting for it or she could mail it back to me, I would refund her credit when I got it back and then I would list it again.

Regarding that comment, there are two things that folks are saying:

1.  In this case it would be uncommon to request the book back from the member, esp if it was posted according to the Site rules (and according to what you have said, it was).

2.  If you DO wish to have the book returned, you need to send the member a credit to get it back, no matter what the circumstances.   (Usually members only ask for books to be returned if the receiver marks them RWAP.)



Last Edited on: 4/30/12 2:42 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/30/2012 2:38 PM ET
Member Since: 3/8/2009
Posts: 16
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Thank you Susan.  I will modify your communication to fit my situation and try that.  I explained to her politely that I was sorry she didn't get the book she expected but I mailed the ISBN requested and that both in the book review section on the PBS for this book and by clicking on the Amazon link for the book, they state that this is a teacker's edition/manual/lesson plan book, not a workbook.  She received what she ordered even if it was not what she wanted.  At first I said I would refund her credit only if she returned the book, but others told me I'd have to give her the credit first and pay the return shipping so the more I thought about it, the more that seemed more unfair than the demand for a returned credit in the first place.  I messaged her again telling her that wasn't allowed but since there are more people wishing for the book, she could post it and search for the correct ISBN for what she wanted.  The book still shows an "X" in my transaction archive so she didn't mark it resolved and she hasn't responded.  Neither has PBS from my contacting them.  Maybe I'll wait until tonight or tomorrow to message her again if she still hasn't realized that the mistake was hers, not mine, and marked it resolved.

Date Posted: 4/30/2012 2:48 PM ET
Member Since: 3/8/2009
Posts: 16
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Thanks xengab - and all others before.  Debbbie, I don't want the book back.  I bought it to send out to someone with it on their wish list because there were multiples.  I have no use for the book myself as my daughter is off at college now.  I only requested it back because the reciever was requesting their credit back and I wasn't going to give her a free credit and a book that is on other people's wish list to get another credit.  I've decided not to accept the book back and to not refund the cerdit either.  It wasn't my mistake.  I really don't like the RWAP strike on my account though.

Date Posted: 4/30/2012 4:31 PM ET
Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,995
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Don't worry about it Michelle and/or John. 

A RWAP is not technically a "strike" against your account. They only become an issue when someone makes a habit of collecting them. Even then, an account would be temporarily suspended and reviewed by a real live person. They generally try to resolve issues here, rather than freezing accounts left and right.

Your communications back and forth with the receiver are attached to the transaction, so if anyone ever needed to review it they would see exactly what happened. This was clearly not your fault, so not a strike.

For the most part, RWAP situations are left for the parties involved to settle (or not). The admins do not step in unless there is clear evidence that someone is trying to game the system, or if someone admits to knowing, yet ignoring, the rules.



Last Edited on: 4/30/12 4:38 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/30/2012 4:47 PM ET
Member Since: 8/14/2011
Posts: 179
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There is no strike on your account.  This is not a big deal.  You held up your end of the bargain, so do not return her credit.  End of problem.