Discussion Forums - Questions about PaperBackSwap Questions about PaperBackSwap

Topic: requestor conditions

Club rule - Please, if you cannot be courteous and respectful, do not post in this forum.
  Unlock Forum posting with Annual Membership.
Subject: requestor conditions
Date Posted: 5/16/2010 9:33 PM ET
Member Since: 6/13/2009
Posts: 503
Back To Top

I recently recieved a book that did not meet my requestor conditions......it had writing in and also water/liquid damage. I nicely sent a message to the sender mentioning these issue and the fact that I specifically did not want books with this issue as noted in my requests. I also asked for my token to be returned.

The sender tells me they will return my token if I ship the book back to them................should I really be responsible for the expence of the shipping if the book arrived under conditions I specifically said I did not want??

 

thanks for any advise!!!

Date Posted: 5/16/2010 9:37 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2009
Posts: 120
Back To Top

You are under no obligation to send the book back to them.  If you do decide to send the book back, they should buddy you a credit first to pay for shipping.

Date Posted: 5/16/2010 9:37 PM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2007
Posts: 2,424
Back To Top

You're under no obligation to ship it back.  If they want it back they can give you two credits, one for the book and the other to cover shipping expenses. 

Date Posted: 5/16/2010 9:59 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
Back To Top

You can find it here...

(sometimes it helps to send people links to the rules you're referring to.)

http://www.paperbackswap.com/help/search.php?terms=received+with+a+problem

  You are not obligated to return the problem item at your expense, but if the sender gives you an extra credit or postage to do so, of course you may.

And I wouldn't sent back a book even if I were willing without getting my original credit and the postage credit first. You should not be out of pocket for their mistake.

Date Posted: 5/16/2010 10:19 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
Back To Top

If the sender gives you any more grief about you sending the book before they return your credit, there are two things for you to do. First, send them to this Help Center page, and copy the following lines into a PM letting them know that PBS SAYS you do not have to return the book to get your credit back:

www.paperbackswap.com/help/help_item.php?id=344

  • Remember that the requestor is not required to send the book back at his or her expense.   There is more information about this below.  The sender of a problem book does risk losing credit, book and postage; this is the incentive NOT to send problem books.  

Hope that helps! (stupid formatting just won't cooperate tonight!)

Ok, lost a sentence in there with the stupid formatting. I also meant to say, that after sending them the info from the Help Center, point out to them that NOT RESOLVED RWAPs are counted a double against your account. PBS has said this outright right in the forums, and that if you get frustrated and mark the transaction as NOT RESOLVED, there is no changing it. They could give you 10 credits, and it wouldn't matter, because once it has been marked NOT RESOLVED, it cannot be changed, and that double black mark will STAY on their account.



Last Edited on: 5/16/10 10:37 PM ET - Total times edited: 3
Date Posted: 5/17/2010 8:43 AM ET
Member Since: 6/13/2009
Posts: 503
Back To Top

Thank you all so much for your advise.....hopefully the sender will co-operate

Date Posted: 5/18/2010 8:57 AM ET
Member Since: 6/13/2009
Posts: 503
Back To Top

Oh well...I guess the sender doesn't want to respond to my message now.  I nicely let them know all the great advise and the link that everyone above suggested....but here we are a day later and no response. Though initially it only took her twenty minutes to strongly suggest i return the book to her at my expense!!!!!

how long should I wait before hitting that old "problem not solved" button?? I have never had this issue before.....always great friendly swaps!

Date Posted: 5/18/2010 9:35 AM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
Back To Top

I believe the team says to wait five days before reporting someone as unresponsive, and I would do that rather than just mark it unresolved. Not responding is a big no no, you don't have to come to an agreement, but you are not allowed to just cease responding to messages. If it goes five days (which it may not, you might have just happened to catch them online last time and they haven't logged on since) and you report it the team will contact the member and let them know that not responding to messages about problem swaps is not an option.

"If a requestor sends you a Personal Message about a problem swap, you do need to reply, and to resolve the problem if there was one.  Because the requestor can provide follow-up on how the problem was handled, resolving the problem will greatly reduce the effect of a problem swap on your account record. Unresolved problems (or not Responding to PMs about a problem swap) will more seriously affect your account record, if a pattern of this accumulates on your account.  Remember that one problem swap will not harm your account, even if it is marked as unresolved by the requestor who gives follow-up on how you handled the problem."

" Member-to-member communication is very important at PBS.

  • We do not expect our members to agree in every case, or even to reach a satisfactory resolution to a problem transaction, but it is never acceptable to ignore a PM from a member with whom you have conducted a swap, as long as the PM is appropriate and asks for a response.
  • If one member ignores PMs, we may step in; although we cannot assess the truth of a situation, if one member is refusing to communicate with the other, that member may be judged as "in the wrong" for this reason.
  • Also, the system does track resolutions to problem transactions, so too many unresolved "problem" transaction can mar a sender's account far more than the same number of resolved "problem" transaction will.  Not replying to a PM that clearly asks for a response will act as a "double black mark" on a sender's account, and senders whose accounts show this pattern will be judged as "at fault" if they do not respond after a pattern has been established."


Last Edited on: 5/18/10 9:37 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/18/2010 11:56 AM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
Back To Top

Thanks, Liesl, for finding the perfect answers to her questions in the HC. Very nice pull!!! (and you are right on the 5 days, but I think they mean business days)

Date Posted: 5/18/2010 9:33 PM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
Back To Top

I suspect that you won't get your credit back.  Just mark it RWAP and don't close the RWAP.  It will stay on their record and perhaps encourage them to not do something like that again.  The same thing happened to me.   When he wrote me an e-mail saying "why should I pay to get back a book you don't want", my reply was "because you broke the rules by posting a book that was not postable".  He never did give me my credit back so I haven't resolved the RWAP.   I am assuming that if he gets too many unresolved RWAP's, that PBS will do something about him.

We need to hold people here accountable for the rules.  If we don't, then there will be no incentive to follow the rules.

Date Posted: 5/18/2010 9:54 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,423
Back To Top

From what I've heard on the forums, leaving a RWAP open does not count stronger against them.  Marking it "not resolved" shows up as a very bad double negative.  I think the system acknowledges that some of us don't know to mark it resolved or not.  Took me over a year to notice that I needed to mark the RWAP as resolved or not.

Date Posted: 5/19/2010 4:39 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,774
Back To Top

Yes, you have to actually go mark the RWAP as "Unresolved". Leaving it open and without a status does not = unresolved.



Last Edited on: 5/19/10 4:52 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/19/2010 12:36 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
Back To Top

Something that keeps coming up in the course of these discussions & needs to be reiterated and resolved...  again - you can't mark a member as unresponsive if they responded to your initial PM from the transaction record.  They may not have given the response you want, but they did respond.  If you feel like you need to follow up with the PBS team and report them for not responding to your second PM, you'll need to use the "Contact Us" tab at the bottom of the page, but if you are marking the RWAP transaction itself as "Sender did not respond to PM", you are marking it incorrectly.

From the help docs:

Sender did not respond to PM means that your PM asked for a response, but the sender did not respond

  • You should not choose this option if the sender responded (even if you don't agree with what the sender said)
  • You should not choose this option if your PM did not ask for a response
  • You should not choose this option if you never sent the sender a PM at all

emphasis mine.

Date Posted: 5/19/2010 10:51 PM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2009
Posts: 25,000
Back To Top

I recently recieved a book that did not meet my requestor conditions......it had writing in and also water/liquid damage.

Hi Tammie,

Sorry about your bummer swap. The ladies are right about returning the book and refunding credits etc.

I am suprised no one has mentioned that the sender not only failed to comply with your RC, but she in fact failed to comply with two of the most basic PBS postability rules. Writing and water damage is FORBIDDEN. You don't even need an RC for that. That sender broke standard rules.

Date Posted: 5/19/2010 11:17 PM ET
Member Since: 9/27/2008
Posts: 370
Back To Top

 I also meant to say, that after sending them the info from the Help Center, point out to them that NOT RESOLVED RWAPs are counted a double against your account. PBS has said this outright right in the forums, and that if you get frustrated and mark the transaction as NOT RESOLVED, there is no changing it. They could give you 10 credits, and it wouldn't matter, because once it has been marked NOT RESOLVED, it cannot be changed, and that double black mark will STAY on their account.

I didn't know that.  That doesn't seem quite fair.  I had a person mark Not Resolved on a RWAP, even though I immediately refunded their credit.  I had no idea that a double black mark was on my account.   That really gives the upper hand to vindictive, nasty people. 

Date Posted: 5/19/2010 11:28 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
Back To Top

It always amazes me that senders who send unpostable books want their books back.  I'm always suspicious that they are going to just send it out to someone else.  And it's particularly bad when the problem is water damage.  For some reason some senders just don't get it about "water damage."  I had a situation early on here when someone sent me a water damaged book - and it wasn't even my requested book.  So I pointed out both those facts.  He said he'd send me my book when I returned the book he sent me!  Of course I was new so I agreed to send the book back if he sent me the postage.  I sent the book back - he never sent me the postage and he didn't return my credit.  And I would bet any amount of money that he sent the damaged book on to whomever it was that ordered it from him.  Ultimately, I was stupid enough to give him a credit and get no book.  I learned from that experience.  Burn me once it all it takes.  I'm not too forgiving any more.  I don't send out damaged unpostable books.  And now I don't return them either.  No point in perpetuating the problem.

Ruth

Date Posted: 5/19/2010 11:47 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
Back To Top

RAY, PBS does it that way BECAUSE they can't judge who is right or wrong in a matter.  The only way they can handle it is to try to get the people to communicate.  It doesn't always work out that they work things out, but PBS isn't able to look at the books.  That's why it is so important to call a unpostable RWAP each and every time.  Most of us are forgiving in terms of time to get it straightened out.  But ultimately, if a requester isn't happy about something then they have the option to mark it unresolved.  That obviously means that some will take advantage of the situation.  I've bent over backwards sometimes to give senders the benefit of the doubt.  But when they promise to do something and don't - eventually I have no choice but to mark them "unresolved".  If you are sure you didn't send them an unpostable then don't return the credit.  I really think that most people don't read the help documents so most aren't aware most likely that they can mark them unresolved.   Some don't even know where their transaction archive is.  I don't know what the stats are on this, but I wouldn't be too concerned really.

Ruth

Date Posted: 5/20/2010 9:57 AM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
Back To Top

I didn't know that.  That doesn't seem quite fair.  I had a person mark Not Resolved on a RWAP, even though I immediately refunded their credit.  I had no idea that a double black mark was on my account.   That really gives the upper hand to vindictive, nasty people.

Just remember that all relevant information you can supply for the record (should PBS ever review your transaction record at all) is of equal importance to resolving your RWAPs.  If someone marks the RWAP unresolved, make sure you note for the PBS team that you did resolve it & refund the credit, but the receiver marked it unresolved anyway.  You could even respond back to the receiver in the transaction dialogue that they marked it incorrectly, just so it's part of the record, and not because you want to have any further communications with them.  It will make a difference in how PBS  looks at an unresolved RWAP if it's noted in the record that you did take all of the proper steps to resolve it.  They use the transaction dialogue to help them determine what happened in a problem swap, so responses are important and should be well thought out & informative.  In other words, if I'm communicating with someone about a problem swap (on either end), I keep it at the back of my mind that the PBS team could end up looking at the transaction dialogue some day, so obviously I want them to come away with the impression that I was concerned about the problem & willing to do my part to get it resolved as painlessly as possible.  I won't cater to the whims of someone who is rude, accusatory & outrageously demanding, but I will carefully consider what I'm going to say and how before I commit it to record.

Date Posted: 5/20/2010 4:03 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2010
Posts: 1
Back To Top

That's too bad.  I hope you get it resolved.

Date Posted: 5/20/2010 10:30 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
Back To Top

Kim is absolutely right, Ray, it is very important that you make sure that all the information concerning the trade is in the dialog that is attached to the transaction. (It usually starts with the initial PM from the other member telling you that the book has a problem.) If they didn't use that area to start the dialog, then you need to go to the Transaction Archives, to the transaction that you are discussing, and answer them from there, so that the dialog is not attached to the transaction, and PBS can see if you have made the effort to resolve the issue even tho they marked it unresolved.

The whole point of the extrta strength of the black mark of an unresolved, as was said, is to make sure that communication occurs. And if you've done your part, then they can read that, and will take that into consideration. And remember, none of this makes any difference at all if you only have a few bad transactions. If you are a really bad trader then you are going to get caught partly because of this system. But, if you are basically a good, conscienciuos, rule abiding member, then a slip up here and there isn't going to hurt you and you really don't even need to worry about this whole discussion. Does that help it make better sense to you?

Date Posted: 5/20/2010 11:41 PM ET
Member Since: 9/27/2008
Posts: 370
Back To Top

I went and looked at my archive again.  I was mistaken, it appears.  It's marked resolved.  I could have sworn it was marked unresolved at one time.  Can he change it?  If so, maybe that's what he did.