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Topic: Sad what has happened on this forum

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Subject: Sad what has happened on this forum
Date Posted: 12/30/2009 1:06 PM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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I have expressed my opinion on several threads here and some members who, because they have been here longer, have basically told me that have no right to express my opinion.  I have received several PM's from members to let me know that they agree with me and wanted to let me know that I was not alone in my opinions.  One even mentioned that she would have posted on the forum, but she didn't want to be attacked by other members for supporting me.  It's very sad that such intimidation exists on this forum.  If you disagee with my opinion, you are free to ignore what I write.  It's just sad that people feel intimidated to the point where they can't express their own opinions.

 

 

Subject: ...
Date Posted: 12/30/2009 6:11 PM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2008
Posts: 204
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You wouldn't happen to be semi new, are you? The reason I ask is that I received such emails when I first signed on years ago. the traditionalists do seem fearful of new ideas, but it's pointless to try and suppress another user's opinion because this site belongs to other people; and those owners ultimately have the freedom to change rules. This forum makes for a nice suggestion box which can aid the owner's in implementing future  improvements that will benefit most everyone, so do not let anyone intimidate you.

Date Posted: 12/30/2009 6:28 PM ET
Member Since: 10/28/2008
Posts: 3,523
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Katie,

 

   I agree with you, not everyone is going to think the same (what a boring world it would be).  If I want to say something I will say it, I have read things that I didn't agree with but I would never dream of telling someone their opinion was not correct.

Date Posted: 12/30/2009 7:04 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,690
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Kate, yes you have a right to have an opinion and yes you have a right to have new ideas and you have the right to make those suggestions BUT, you do not have the right to demand that everyone agree with you, you do not have the right to be rude and disrespectful to other members, you do not have the right to call them liars, you do not have the right to degrade other members because they do not believe as you do, you do not have the right to tell people they are not a good citizen because they do not report every wrong like you do.

You have been all of the above to other members on the threads of which you have posted.

1) people have the right to report or not report people who misuse USPS materials.  One person is no better than the other.

2) people have a right to report or not report people who misuse media mail.  One person is no better than the other.

3)  people have the right to wrap in plastic or not wrap in plastic. One person is no better than the other.

4)  people have the right to not want to have plastic in their home or to limit the amount of plastic in their home but, that does not make it a "cop out" as you would suggest.

So the bottom line Kate is not that people are saying you do not have the right to express an opinion it is that you do not have the right to do so in a rude manner.  There is a point though that your experience here is limited and your knowledge of how things works is limited.

Date Posted: 12/30/2009 7:32 PM ET
Member Since: 10/26/2008
Posts: 9,884
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If you disagee with my opinion, you are free to ignore what I write. 

I guess it is easier for you if people simply ignore what you say instead of us calling you out on your bad manners.

It's just sad that people feel intimidated to the point where they can't express their own opinions.

Katie, do you understand how contradictory this sounds?  Particularly since you were the one that began intimidating people because they chose not to wrap their books in plastic.  Some things that have come from you have come across as extremely accusatory.  You started by passing judgment on people because they choose not to have plastic in their homes. Then you began accusing them of being irresponsible swappers and implying that they couldn't care less about swapping damaged books (which is slanderous).

This is a free country, and you are welcome (and even encouraged) to post your own opinions, so long as you aren't insulting other members.  And we aren't expecting you to agree with what everyone else has to say.  What we are expecting is a certain level of respect, especially from someone who is new to the game.



Last Edited on: 12/30/09 7:35 PM ET - Total times edited: 3
Date Posted: 12/30/2009 7:37 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,398
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I have to say, I expect the tone of Katie's posts over in CMT.  I really don't want to read them in this forum.  Not saying that Katie is wrong.  Just saying that the tone is kinda mean, not helpful.  This is a forum for questions.  Please go debate over in CMT.

Date Posted: 12/30/2009 7:47 PM ET
Member Since: 10/26/2008
Posts: 9,884
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Good call, Emily.

Thanks for your input :o)

Date Posted: 12/30/2009 7:51 PM ET
Member Since: 2/21/2009
Posts: 2,925
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If you join a new group, in person or online, and immediately start denigrating the members of that group, rudely call them uncaring for following the rules of the group, and not only presume that you know better then they or the management, but tell them how things ought to be, what the members should  do, tell them how they should act - not only in relation to the group but in other facets of their lives - you should be prepared to wear a flack jacket. You've carried your dissent and unhappiness from thread to thread.

I do agree with two things. 1. It's sad. 2. CMT is the proper place for most of your "discussions."

Date Posted: 12/30/2009 7:59 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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Actually I think a majority did not disagree with your opinion, but with your method of delivery. If you had stated your opinion on the topic instead of your negative opinion on the people who did not do as you thought they should, the responses would have been much different. That will be the same no matter where you go on the net or IRL, you walk into a room and start telling people how wrong and rotten they are, they are not going to give you a warm welcome.

Date Posted: 12/30/2009 8:00 PM ET
Member Since: 1/1/2009
Posts: 1,924
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Please, if you cannot be courteous and respectful, do not post in this forum.

 

My personal opinion is that this forum is for questions.

My personal opinion is that threads like this calling nameless people out is not helpful and cause more drama than they fix. I think it is best if there are issues with members to take those up personally in PM.   -shrug-

I am not disrespecting you Kate, just not agreeing with the choice to post this. I am not attacking you, no matter what you have or have not done as I don't think two wrongs make a right either. I just think such issues could be solved in private with people.

Date Posted: 12/31/2009 12:57 AM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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Shouldn't this be in the CMT forum?  Ah, well...

Karma-Phala: (Sanskrit) [from karma action, consequences + phala fruit] Karmic fruit; for the individual, "the aggregate consequences of his actions."

Chickens come home to roost:
Prov. You have to face the consequences of your mistakes or bad deeds.  Jill: Emily found out that I said she was incompetent, and now she won't recommend me for that job. Jane: The chickens have come home to roost, I see.

Just deserts
Meaning:
That which is deserved. A reward for what has been done - good or bad.
Origin:
Deserts, in the sense of 'things deserved' has been used in English since at least the 13th century. A citation in which it is linked with 'just' comes from 1599, in Warning Faire Women:

"Upon a pillory - that all the world may see, A just desert for such impiety."

'Nuf said?

Date Posted: 12/31/2009 1:03 AM ET
Member Since: 5/18/2007
Posts: 13,188
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cause more drama than they fix.

I'm pretty sure this is her goal. After reading all the threads she's started (going back to the siggy thread right at the beginning) and her comments to others in such a short time I think she's here for all the wrong reasons.

Given that, she's on ignore and I just won't comment to her. 



Last Edited on: 12/31/09 1:17 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 12/31/2009 1:13 AM ET
Member Since: 1/29/2006
Posts: 54,837
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If you disagee with my opinion, you are free to ignore what I write. 

They are also free to comment on it, just as you are free to comment on what others have written...which I gather you have...and thus it goes.  It can turn into a vicious circle, to be sure.  If we don't like the tone of the responses we get there is a good chance what we're putting out there is not so hot.

Date Posted: 12/31/2009 6:24 AM ET
Member Since: 10/19/2006
Posts: 136
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What's really sad Katie, is that you will never be satisfied until PBS changes their rules regarding wrapping. Throughout all of the threads that you have started (and hijacked) your constant complaint is that PBS doesn't require plastic wrap. Dozens of members have advised you to just put that in your RC but you refuse to consider that option.

You seem to be frustrated because you can't impose your will on all of us and you work out those frustrations by being rude to everyone on these forums. And now you seem to be looking for sympathy with this thread (which by the way, belongs in CMT).

For the record, I'm not anti-plastic. I always wrap in plastic...because I want to.

Date Posted: 12/31/2009 7:55 AM ET
Member Since: 5/22/2005
Posts: 1,592
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logo
 
quote of the day
 

“I appreciate people who are civil, whether they mean it or not. I think: Be civil. Do not cherish your opinion over my feelings. There's a vanity to candor that isn't really worth it. Be kind.”

—Richard Greenberg
(1958-); playwright

Subject: ...
Date Posted: 12/31/2009 1:08 PM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2008
Posts: 204
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This thread is about plastic wrap?? Okay.

I understand that senders have no obligation to protect books from the elements. But don't be surprised if you get slammed with a RWAP anyway. Sometimes it's unclear how the book gets damaged. Example...last week (on one of those sites where members grade their item's condition) I was sent a book described as "like new"...it came in a flimsy manilla envelope...no plastic. The book had water damage but it dried. Water evaporates. Remember science class? Yes, there was a storm in the midwest that moved eastward around that time, but that doesn't prove the book was mailed in new condition and damaged by that particular storm . I gave him a negative mark.  he went crazy. Oh well.



Last Edited on: 12/31/09 1:09 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 12/31/2009 1:14 PM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2008
Posts: 204
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I believe in being courteous. Not everyone else has to. But there's always a risk involved with discourtesy based on my post above. On a brighter note...I recently received a wishlist book in a manilla envelope that I really really wanted. It was wrapped tightly in 2 plastic Wal-Mart bags and survived a snowstorm. So expensive bubble envelopes are not necessary when 2 free bags do the trick.  Awesome...I thank that person for his fast thinking and courtesy

Date Posted: 12/31/2009 1:50 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,800
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I haven't been around much this week so I haven't read all the drama.

But what I've found on here, and in life in general is this:

People usually treat you the way you treat them.

That is why do unto others as you'll have them do unto you works so well.

Date Posted: 1/1/2010 2:18 AM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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What's really sad Katie, is that you will never be satisfied until PBS changes their rules regarding wrapping. Throughout all of the threads that you have started (and hijacked) your constant complaint is that PBS doesn't require plastic wrap. Dozens of members have advised you to just put that in your RC but you refuse to consider that option.

Please show me where I ever said that I thought that PBS should "require" books be wrapped in plastic.  All I have said is that just because they don't "require" it doesn't mean that the right thing to do isn't using plastic to protect books.  I really am sick and tired of the people here who are telling me that I am not being courteous saying I said things I didn't say and basically trashing me.  Perhaps you shouldl take a dose of your own medicine.

Date Posted: 1/1/2010 9:49 AM ET
Member Since: 7/12/2009
Posts: 177
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As a relatively new member, I would like to counter what Kate said about the tone of this forum.  Personally, I've received a great deal of kindness and courtesy.  I think one big difference is this:  When I start a topic, it is a genuine question that I want or need an answer to.  It's not a diatribe in disguise.  When I ask a question, I truly want to hear other people's knowledge, experience, or opinion.  I may not agree with all of them, but hearing a widely ranging group of answers helps me get the issue clear in my own mind.  I'm a very strongly opinionated person, too, but I don't feel the need to make everyone agree with me.  I haven't had anyone attack me for my opinions, either, because I strive to present my opinions politely.

Also, as a high school math teacher, I teach logic in my courses.  (Excuse me while I bang my head against the wall for the futility of teaching reasoning to hormone-filled creatures.)  Personal attacks--calling people selfish, rude, etc.--do not further an argument.  Someone resorting to personal attacks has lost the debate.  It's an extremely poor way of trying to change people's minds.  In fact, I've never seen it work.

So my opinion is this:  Most of Kate's topics do not belong in this forum, since they are not really questions.  As others have stated before, they belong in CMT.

Subject: ...
Date Posted: 1/1/2010 2:53 PM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2008
Posts: 204
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Many have repeatedly stated that this thread belongs in the CMT forum, but no matter where it's posted, that probably won't stop sticklers from sending Kate unwanted e-mails.

Date Posted: 1/3/2010 9:41 PM ET
Member Since: 4/4/2009
Posts: 9,450
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There is another forum titled Current Affairs. It is strictly bare knuckles there. After a while, it gets pretty boring. For the most part there are two groups: liberals and conservatives. Name calling is a staple argumentative technique of most participants. After you figure out who the players and which side they represent, you don't really need to read much of what they say. I have only been mostly lurking on this one and the larger one at the top for less than a week, so I don't have sufficient evidence from which to draw conclusions. However, This thread looks an awful lot like what goes on all the time in Current Affairs.

Date Posted: 1/3/2010 10:38 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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Anyone posting on a forum for discussion of current affairs & politics ought to be ready for some bare knuckle action.  I mean, there's a reason why people say they never discuss religion or politics in mixed company:P  This is the Q&A forum and a lot of people feel that nothing but swapping related questions and answers should be posted here - ever.  Opinions are certainly fine, as long as there's enough grey area in a rule or guideline to leave it open to different interpretations & opinions.  I've never seen anyone advocate doing something contradictory to the rules & procedures here though, and not have 10 or 12 people point it out to them.  You have your big people pants on to post answers & give advice here, and have the ability to be disagreed with without a lot of dramatic flouncing.  Like telling people to put you on ignore if they don't agree with your opinions...  That's what's known in DB lingo as "flouncing".  Correct answers & information are kind of critical on this forum, and if you post opinion when straightforward, just the facts answers are called for, you need to anticipate being disagreed with.  Often by multiple people - most of whom have thoroughly read & understand the rules, and really don't have the time or inclination to massage fragile egos.



Last Edited on: 1/3/10 10:42 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/6/2010 5:01 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 129
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Sitting at a computer screen, tone cannot be perceived.  You cannot tell my current mood state just from the words shown on your computer monitor.  Happy?  Angry?  Tired?  None of these can come across.


As such, take a few moments to read what you have written, particularly if the topic is a heated discussion type topic.  Read it as if you were not the author but another person reading it anew.  How does it come across?

Even if you are laughing while typing, that cannot normally be determined in text.

Take the personalizaiton such as "people, you, we, I" etc out and use generic terms such as "it, sometimes," etc.

If your statements can be taken personally, then flame wars flare up.  There are ways to express an opinion without having the displayed text on the screen appear as an attack against other members or the entire membership. 

Date Posted: 1/7/2010 4:33 PM ET
Member Since: 8/30/2007
Posts: 3,237
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I haven't had anyone attack me for my opinions, either, because I strive to present my opinions politely.

Yes, I have found this to be the key in every forum I've participated in for ten+ years. As with so many other things in life, it's all in the presentation. :)

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