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Topic: Does this seem proper?

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Subject: Does this seem proper?
Date Posted: 9/11/2007 9:57 AM ET
Member Since: 9/26/2006
Posts: 86
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The message I sent to a person requesting one of my books pretty much explains what happened, do you think what I am requesting in return is fair?

I was the person that sent you Maneater that went lost. Yesterday I got notice from the post office of a package that I needed to pickup that had postage due. It was the book I had sent to you that they attempted to deliver but it was returned to me as moved left no address so I guess yur address in the system is wrong. I have now spent $4.26 plus mailing supplies on a book you requested but was undeliverable because you failed to correct your address in the system. I think it would be proper for you either to return this money to me or to give me two credits top make up for this. I appreciate your understanding in this matter.

Date Posted: 9/11/2007 10:10 AM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Last Edited on: 10/19/09 9:35 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/11/2007 10:16 AM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,791
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Oh yeah - I would have ASKED what the problem with the address was instead of ASSUMING the person was negligent!  Who knows where the mistake was made?  It could have been the PO or even a glitch in PBS.      I'd find the tone of your PM demanding and a bit aggravating. 

Date Posted: 9/11/2007 10:20 AM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
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Umm, I don't get it.  Is your address, here in the system of PBS correct?  Has it been changed recently?  Did she mail it again, is that how she spent $4.26?  Why did she mail it again if she thought the address was wrong?  Why didn't she PM you when she got it back, BEFORE mailing it again?  

I haven't had my coffee, but I don't get why she would mail a book, in an upset state of mind, and then want you to correct it after the fact.

edited to add, I've had some coffee and I see now that you are the person who is doing the sending.  Sorry.  So why did you send it off again before working something out with her/him?  Did you ask if their address has changed?  Did you tell the PO they messed up and give them the opportunity to correct it?   



Last Edited on: 9/11/07 10:26 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/11/2007 10:49 AM ET
Member Since: 9/26/2006
Posts: 86
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I did not send it off again. From what I was told by the PO media mail is only a one way postage, for them to send it back from CA I had to pay to get the book back. I was a little forward with this person because before the book went lost I had PMed this person many times asking if they had received the book to see if there was a problem but go no reply from them until weeks after the book went lost. This was something I tried to figure out and solve right before and after the book went lost but the receiver was uninterested in helping at all. I  have mailed and recived many books so this wasnt just a case of rushing to judgement and me being demanding as was stated. This person only responded once out of 6 PMs sent when the book went lost and when they did respond didnt even know what I was talking about.

Sorry, I guess I didnt explain the entire situation at first but really didnt means to aggravate anyone with my question.



Last Edited on: 9/11/07 10:52 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/11/2007 10:56 AM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Last Edited on: 10/19/09 9:34 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/11/2007 11:13 AM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
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Well, ok, yes, now that I've had my full cup of coffee, and read your second post it is clearer to me. 

However, if I may, if the person did not receive the book, and it appears as tho they didn't, they probably didn't respond to your PM's because there was nothing to tell you.  Now, personally, I would have responded just to say, "nothing to report, no book, nothing to report".  But, it is plausible that since there was nothing to report, they just decided not to PM you back.  Also, and this is just me, not speaking for the person you tried to send the book too, I wouldn't respond to you after 6 PM's, especially if the entire thing was totally out of my control.  And, truth be told, the entire thing was out of their control.  They can't control the post office, nor your decisions about the book.  Assuming their address was correct and it was a PO error.

Now I still don't understand, was their address wrong in the system?  Not updated?  Or was it the PO's fault?  If it was the PO's fault I would think (tho I don't know for sure) that you would be able to get one of your postage fees back ($2.13).  And if it was the PO's fault then, in my humble opinion, it is not alright to ask the receiver to reimburse you in any way.  If it was the receiver's fault, perhaps they updated their address after you sent out the book, or whatever, then I think you are out of luck, and here's why (again, just my humble opinion).  If the address was wrong and you got the book back, they should have made plans to resolve this with you before you sent the book out to them a second time.  It would be my opinion that you did your part the first time you mailed it out and if the receiver wanted the book after that she/he should have worked it out fairly with you.  If it had been me, and I really was at fault (wrong address in the system, or whatever), I would buddy you an additional credit, but since you worked nothing out before you sent the book, and they have the book in their possession now, you may just be out of luck, since there was no agreement ahead of time. 

I would have, at the PO, asked to see the package before paying for it.  I would have copied the information from it and PM'd the person telling them "your book is at the PO with the name and address of "insert info here".  Is this your correct address?  If it is I will go back to the PO and tell them to try it again, at their expense.  If not, I need to pay postage due to get the book back into my possession, to be able to correct the info and send it out again.  As you can tell, this could get expensive.  I'm sure you agree that we need to communicate about this, so please get in touch.  The PO said they would hold the book for X days.  Thanks"

Personally, I would have communicated with you from the get go and hopefully avoided this, but since the receiver didn't, you're probably, unfortunately, out of luck.

Date Posted: 9/11/2007 11:37 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,177
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Unless it was totally my error, I would have a problem with giving additional credits to someone for a book I never receive. I also would respond to a PM better if it did not sound so assuming and hostile, maybe a better way to word it would have been, "if you entered your address into the system incorrectly causing this undeliverable problem, please send me the postage lost (or 2 credits) and I will send the book once you've PM'd me your correct address."

If the problem was not my error I would have let you know right away, but after numerous PMs and the last one being kind of snippy (at least in type) I might ignore you too.

Hopefully you can get it resolved. If it was a PO error, don't let them off the hook so easy.

Date Posted: 9/11/2007 12:10 PM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2007
Posts: 5,526
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I wouldn't respond to you after 6 PM's

Julie, I think her point was that had the receiver actually answered the first PM she wouldn't have had to keep sending PM's to them.  at least that is how I interpreted it!  I too would have said, haven't received it or something like that just so they know but not everyone replies to PM's

now I don't think I would reimburse credits if I knew my address was correct because that means the PO screwed up some how that was beyond my control

Cathy A. (Cathy) - ,
Date Posted: 9/11/2007 12:12 PM ET
Member Since: 12/27/2005
Posts: 4,103
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Is the other person still a member? Can you browse her bookshelf? If she's not a member any more, then that's why she's ignoring your PMs and no, you aren't going to get any compensation. You can ask R&R if she left a credit or PBS money in her account and see if they'll give it to you, but that's about the only option.

If she is still a member, then two credits are worth a lot more than you spent. One credit is probably about as much as you can reasonably ask. If you send it again to a new address, then you should get two credits for the total transaction.

Date Posted: 9/11/2007 12:31 PM ET
Member Since: 6/10/2007
Posts: 10,401
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You're putting an awful lot of faith in the very flawed United States Postal System, if you're juast assuming that they're the party in the right here, and your swapper is in the wrong. Maybe your swapper only has access to the computer on certain days. Without knowing the history of this attempted swap, I have to say that your PM was accusatory and demanding, and I would run away from you as fast as I could as a swapper. If her address was correct the whole time, this is not her fault at all. At this point, you don't know that her address is incorrect. I would have sooner contacted R&R than sent that PM demanding two credits back (for a total of three credits earned for one book?)

Date Posted: 9/11/2007 12:32 PM ET
Member Since: 1/2/2006
Posts: 575
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I just had a similar situation happen to a book I sent. I've been in contact via PM with the member in hopes of getting it squared away.

I am waiting the return of the book I sent using dc that was marked as Undeliverable. It went lost last week. I sent it to Napa CA and the member moved to another state. I PMed her letting her know I felt bad that the book went lost, I had hoped that even though it had been marked undeliverable that it still might reach it's destination. I knew I had made no mistakes on my end because I had the receipt showing the destination and it matched the address in the details section. It's a new hc book that was only read twice and on many a  WL so that was a bummer. She PMed back stating she moved out of state and was going back home on vacation and was going to check with the PO while there. She just PMed me again stating it was not there, no surprise,  so I'm thinking it's on it's way back to me. I'm sure it was an honest mistake on her part.  If I'm lucky enough to get the book back I'll be happy to resend it, but If I have to pay to get the book back I'll be asking (politely)  for at least one credit to re-mail it to the correct address. I'll still be out postage one way, but I'll be happy that someone got the book. Now it being on her WL she may have already gotten another copy, in that case I guess I'd just repost it.

Date Posted: 9/11/2007 12:51 PM ET
Member Since: 3/8/2007
Posts: 139
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I would be very hesitant to ask someone for another credit.  I think I would rather be out the money and have a completed transaction then have someone dissatisfied with me (and perhaps PBS).  Now, on the other hand, if I was the recipient, and I knew you were out some extra money and hassle, I would consider buddying a credit if  everything else had been polite and happy.

I think that the majority of transactions here at PBS are flawless, but everyone has to understand that there are going to be problems (and perhaps extra expense) sometimes. 

Date Posted: 9/11/2007 3:21 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 4,469
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I wouldn't hold my breath on getting the money or the credits, but it certainly doesn't hurt to ask.

Date Posted: 9/11/2007 3:46 PM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
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Yeah Leslie, I do get that too. :>) That's why I said in that same post, if it had been me, I would have answered, even if there was nothing to report, just out of generousity, because I wouldn't want to be left hanging either.  But, if the first PM was as demanding as the one posted here for our collective opinions, I may not have answered.  Or, if I was away from a computer for some reason and came back to find a few PM's (which she did say she was aggressive with), I may not have answered either. 

We are under no obligation to respond to a PM.  The system works without it.  If the book never arrives, it's lost and folks get their credit back.  If a person receives a book back and can't get the receiver to answer, they can cancel the order.  I would communicate, but that's just me.  It's not required, and a strongly worded email may have insured no communication even tho I'm sure the OP was just trying to make it right. 

My two pennies.  :>)

Date Posted: 9/11/2007 4:00 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2005
Posts: 20,024
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I agree with Julie if I this person and was away from my comp for some time and came back to find 6 pms from one person that were worded even remotely like the one the OP posted I would ignore them too.

Date Posted: 9/11/2007 4:17 PM ET
Member Since: 3/20/2006
Posts: 229
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If she is still a member, then two credits are worth a lot more than you spent. One credit is probably about as much as you can reasonably ask. If you send it again to a new address, then you should get two credits for the total transaction.

That sounds like the fairest solution to me.  And I have to agree with the others -- it wasn't right for you to assume and accuse the other member without checking with him.her first. 

Date Posted: 9/11/2007 6:52 PM ET
Member Since: 2/16/2006
Posts: 1,956
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 I  have mailed and recived many books so this wasnt just a case of rushing to judgement and me being demanding as was stated.

I don't think the number of books you've mailed and received has any bearing on whether you were demanding or rushed to judgment.   Your PM really did sound demanding and like you rushed to judgment. 

Have you tried typing the address into the zip code search box at the USPS website to see if it says the address is invalid? I've used this method with luck in the past to "test" a mailing address.   Also, does this member have a profile (i.e. can you check to see how many books they've received here so far?)  I would have at least done those two things to make sure the error was made by the recipient before sending off a PM that accuses them of providing an inaccurate address. 

Trying to look at it from the other perspective, I certainly wouldn't spend two credits on a book that I never received, especially if the error was on the part of the USPS.  Honestly, if the recipient was responsible for the mistake, I would say you were even if they sent one credit, especially since you will get the book back.  Or, if you don't go and pick up the book & you get one credit you'll be in the same place you would have been in ($ and credit wise) if you had mailed the book and it had been received.

 



Last Edited on: 9/11/07 7:03 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/11/2007 11:22 PM ET
Member Since: 5/26/2007
Posts: 5,522
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I'm on Amy's side.  Maybe the tone of her PM was a little hostile, but she's already spent $4.26 on this book with no credits to show for it.  She initially paid $2.13 to mail it to CA, then had to pay another $2.13 to get it back from the PO when it was returned.  Since the book was marked "lost" she has not received any credit for it.  If she reposts it and sends it to someone else, she will stay have to pay another $2.13 in order to get a credit, making a grand total of $6.39 spent in exchange for one credit.  If the original requestor is at fault for having an incorrect address, s/he should buddy Amy two credits to compensate her for the postage she has already paid. 

Date Posted: 9/11/2007 11:42 PM ET
Member Since: 6/10/2007
Posts: 10,401
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Holly said: "If the original requestor is at fault for having an incorrect address, s/he should buddy Amy two credits to compensate her for the postage she has already paid."

Key word: if. It's an assumption since she hadn't heard back from the (now terrified? annoyed?) receiver. I still think she should have asked politely before sending a tyrade like that demanding two credits' refund from someone who doesn't even have her book.

Date Posted: 9/11/2007 11:52 PM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
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I think that's what we have all said Holly.  We all think it's a bummer of a situation, but it just wasn't worked out reasonably. 

If the receiver were at fault for not updating her/his address, then it would be fair to ask for another credit before agreeing to send the book again.  If the sender did her part faithfully, sent the book, and the receiver made the error, than I say the receiver is out of luck without ponying up another credit.  One is under no obligation to continue to send out a book over and over again to random addresses in hopes of making it to the receiver for just one credit.  Amy did her part, faithfully, no arguement.  But, to resend the book before working out a compromise and then demanding the credit after the fact is not the way to go.  These are the types of situations one must work out ahead of time. 

It would be interesting to know where the error was..........was the receiver's address incorrect, or changed after the address label was printed out?  Or was the PO at fault?  I do hope we find out.

Date Posted: 9/12/2007 12:02 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,177
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It appears to me that that is actually what is taking place, the book has not been sent again. OP asked for the two credit prior to sending it out again. The double postage paid was to send the book and then to get it back from the post office. I actually don't see that the poster intends to send the book again. She is just asking for credits to reimburse her for the postage already paid.

Date Posted: 9/12/2007 12:12 AM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
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Hmmm??  You may be right Melanie.  If it was a PO error she should get half that back, and they should re-send at their expense, and then it's all a done deal.  If it's the receiver's fault and they don't do the right thing, then I think that's really stinky of them.  Even if they no longer want the book, if the error was theirs they should at least offer one credit, if not two.  I would not have paid the PO until I had it figured out, but that's just me. 

Date Posted: 9/12/2007 12:31 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,177
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I agree 100%. I wouldn't have taken the book back from the PO until I knew it wasn't their error. Once the book is out of their possession they aren't going to be all that willing to fix the problem. And I would feel rotten if I had caused someone else to pay so much and I would have fessed up and offered the credit right away. If it was not my fault I'd be extremely ticked at this point, no book and I am supposed to send two credits?!?! Alas, those of us on the outside of the transaction can only watch and guess.

L. G. (L)
Date Posted: 9/12/2007 5:53 AM ET
Member Since: 9/5/2005
Posts: 12,412
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Amy, I'd be a tad peeved as well.  I hope you get at least one credit for your trouble. :/  If you don't hear back from this person, please send a note to R&R and let them know you had a book returned because the person wasn't at that address, and list the address - they can send a PM to the person and request that they check their account.

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