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Topic: Sender Wants Proof for RWAP: Resolved!

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Subject: Sender Wants Proof for RWAP: Resolved!
Date Posted: 3/6/2010 2:41 AM ET
Member Since: 1/12/2009
Posts: 262
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 I had to mark a book RWAP and politely explained the problem and asked for my credit back.   The sender wrote back that she doesn't send out bad books and that I should send it back so she could consider the request and she would return the credit "if warrented."      Well, she was very nice about it, not snarky at all.   I wrote back that some people can post a picture to show the damages, but I am unable to do that and in fact the book is damaged.  That I understood her hesitation and that she wanted proof.  That sometimes problems just happen, and I was in no way blaming her.  That it is easy to miss a problem, too.  And that I just know the book is damaged and would hope she would return my credit.   Now I am awaiting her response. 

But DO I have to prove it?  Should I just add a PM with the excerpt about mailing a book back only after receiving an additional credit for postage?  Just not sure how to handle this...and you would think I've never read the forums!  I've read this repeatedly, then when it happens to me, I am lost...   :(     But being asked for proof (i.e. she has to see it for herself) has thrown me.    D.



Last Edited on: 3/7/10 2:34 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/6/2010 3:25 AM ET
Member Since: 3/13/2006
Posts: 16
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Its my understanding that you don't have to provide proof & also that you don't have to return the book. I think that is actually against the rules for her to even ask. But what is the problem exactly? If you aren't blaming her does that mean it is just something that was damaged by the post office? I personally wouldn't return a credit for in transit damage as I don't see that as my fault.

Date Posted: 3/6/2010 3:53 AM ET
Member Since: 1/12/2009
Posts: 262
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The first 50+ pages of the book were water damaged and stained.  It had not been wrapped in plastic, but was traveling loosely in a regular manilla envelope.   I made sure to check the packaging, too, since we've had lots of rain lately, and I wanted to know exactly what you asked: if it was damaged in transit.  The packaging was neither  wet nor stained.  When I PM'd the sender, all of this info was included.  The first part of the stain on the cover is dark, like coffee was spilled on it.  None of this even would bother me if I would dare to post it, but that sure isn't going to happen and I don't want to be out a good credit on a book I can't repost and will not likely keep either.     D. 

Date Posted: 3/6/2010 4:01 AM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
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If the packaging showed no signs of water damage then it's only logical to assume the book was damaged when sent.  As much as being able to provide photo evidence of the damage is helpful in resolving a problem swap, it's by no means required.  I don't think there's a rule against asking for proof, per se, but there's definitely no rule for it, either.  Unfortunately, it sounds as if the problem boils down to your word against hers, and there's not much you can do aside from marking the book as Received With a Problem and, if no refund is offered, marking the problem as unresolved in the Transaction Archive. 

Date Posted: 3/6/2010 4:08 AM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,424
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I would not return a book without two credits.  One for the return postage, one to replace the book.  I would never send back a book to see if the sender felt it was damaged enough to refund my credit.   You do not have to prove it.  If you have a habit of marking all books with RWAP, then PBS will eventually catch up to you.

My theory is that I'm quite willing to RWAP.  But it takes quite a bit to get me to ask for a credit.

Date Posted: 3/6/2010 7:59 AM ET
Member Since: 8/25/2007
Posts: 13,134
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You should copy and paste the rules section about her sending you a credit if she wants the book to be sent back.  It sounds like she's probably not going to return your initial credit, and she really doesn't have to.  You should note that you will be marking the transaction as Not Resolved since the damage was clearly not incurred during shipping. 

Date Posted: 3/6/2010 8:41 AM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 4,469
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I know you don't have to send it back--and if you do send it back there should be two credits returned, the original one you paid, plus another to cover your postage costs.  It's unlikely she's going to give you a credit back regardless.  I'd mark it as unresolved and move on.

Date Posted: 3/6/2010 9:30 AM ET
Member Since: 10/21/2007
Posts: 3,430
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You don't have to provide proof, but in turn she does not have to return your credit.  If you can provide photo proof, it can help your case but there are no guarantees in getting your credit returned in RWAP transactions. 

Date Posted: 3/6/2010 11:31 AM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
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Yeah, don't feel like they would happily return your credit if only you were able to post a photo. I've gone through the trouble of taking and posting a photo of an RWAP I received, and I all got for my trouble was the sender accusing me of causing the damage myself.

Date Posted: 3/6/2010 11:31 AM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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People ask for the book back because they can't accept the fact that they have to walk away from an RWAP empty-handed.  They either don't read that portion of the help docs that says this is the incentive for not sending unpostable books, or they just can't accept it.  Never mind sending an extra credit for the postage:P  I think James said it best - the problem boils down to your word against hers, and there's not much you can do aside from marking the book as Received With a Problem and, if no refund is offered, marking the problem as unresolved in the Transaction Archive.

Date Posted: 3/6/2010 2:53 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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I share your pain gardngal, our digital camera is on the fritz . . . is if I knew how to post my own pic, even if the camera was working!



Last Edited on: 3/6/10 2:53 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Ronda (RONDA) - ,
Date Posted: 3/6/2010 2:56 PM ET
Member Since: 3/3/2009
Posts: 415
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i think it is a natural tendency for the sender to want the book back if they don't get the credit.  They are thinking of themself and store return kind of situation, not that the reciever will have to spend money to send it back.  So point them to the help doc and if you want to,send it back if they give you 2 credits.

Date Posted: 3/6/2010 4:07 PM ET
Member Since: 10/28/2008
Posts: 3,523
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I had someone tell me a book I sent was damaged when I knew it was not.  I now take pictures of any book sent to someone with RC's. I have not had any other problems but if I do I can send proof that the book was in good shape when i mailed it

Date Posted: 3/6/2010 4:42 PM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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I now take pictures of any book sent to someone with RC's.

It would be interesting to know the percentage of RWAP's that occur when the person ordering the book has an RC vs, no RC.  If they were higher for people with an RC, I think most of us start refusing all RC's.  I know that I decline an RC if it isn't about something like cigarette smoke since I know how bad it is to have an allergy to cigarette smoke.  Anything else just plain makes me nervous, especially the ones that are simply a rehash of PBS's rules.

Date Posted: 3/6/2010 6:23 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2009
Posts: 2,016
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There is no requirement that you send "proof" of the unpostability, but there's no rule that says she can't ask for proof.

However, I've found that being proactive about providing visual evidence helps. When I RWAP a book, in addition to describing the damage, I take pictures of the book, post them online with comments, and include the URLs for the pictures in the PM and the comment box. I also say I'd be happy to return the book if the sender provides the postage. This has worked  well in getting prompt responses with credit refunded; most people don't want the book back.

Date Posted: 3/6/2010 6:45 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,424
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I'm really sorry to hear that Bertie feels the need for defensive photos.  Definitely not how I want PBS to feel like. 

But I am also really uncomfortable about the assumption that we all have webcams or digital cameras to take photos.  Or the know how to do so.  I really want PBS to be a site where folks like my 80 year old mom could feel comfortable, rather than feel computer illiterate.



Last Edited on: 3/6/10 6:52 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/6/2010 8:18 PM ET
Member Since: 10/6/2005
Posts: 10,714
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Did you verify that the person you are PM'ing is indeed the person you received the book from? Maybe another sender sent you the book first forgot to mark it mailed and it roller over to this person so you have 2 copies coming? I always check that if the sender seems really shocked that the book is damaged.

Date Posted: 3/7/2010 1:45 AM ET
Member Since: 1/12/2009
Posts: 262
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No need to verify, since it wasn't a WL book.  I ordered it directly from "recently posted books".  Maybe this was the first time it ever happened to her, so she was shocked...  

Date Posted: 3/7/2010 1:51 AM ET
Member Since: 1/12/2009
Posts: 262
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....but now for the GOOD NEWS!  The sender has agreed to refund the credit after all!  I am so happy, and marked it resolved, and PM'd with a heartfelt thank you, too.  Even said I hope we can swap again sometime.  It is such an uncomfortable situation to be in, but it is now resolved.  Thanks to all of you for the great suggestions. 

Emily, I agree with you that we shouldn't be so intimidated that we would have to photograph a book before sending it the way Bertie does.  That is just sad.  The club is built on integrity and I hope it will stay that way as well! 

Happy Swapping to all!    D.

Date Posted: 3/7/2010 10:47 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,188
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It would be interesting to know the percentage of RWAP's that occur when the person ordering the book has an RC vs, no RC.  If they were higher for people with an RC, I think most of us start refusing all RC's.

I have RCs, but every one of the books I've marked RWAP were unpostable (some borderline, some nasty) so any statistics on this IMO would be worthless. The existance of an RC has no bearing on whether or not the book received was postable. It really ticks me off when people infer that people with RCs are somehow dishonest or people without RCs are nicer to swap with.

 

gardngal - I am glad your RWAP was resolved!



Last Edited on: 3/7/10 10:49 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/7/2010 10:56 AM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2007
Posts: 3,044
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I have RCs, but every one of the books I've marked RWAP were unpostable (some borderline, some nasty) so any statistics on this IMO would be worthless.

When you mark RWAP and it asks for the reason, are "RCs not met" one of options? Wouldn't it then be possible to obtain statistics (if PBS wanted to actually figure it out) on RCs vs. no RCs?

If that's the case I wouldn't say it would be worthless. And if anything, it would reflect poorly on the people ignoring RCs. Maybe if PBS did gather the info. and saw that RCs not being met was a large problem (which I kind of doubt since the forums most often only show the bad side of the club) then they'd finally make the RCs visible after accepting them. :)

Date Posted: 3/7/2010 11:28 AM ET
Member Since: 4/7/2008
Posts: 15,690
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Amee - The Team has this improvement (having RCs being visible once members accept requests) in their To Do List...it's not available now because it will take some work on their end to have them show and they probably have some other improvements that are first on the list.

Date Posted: 3/7/2010 12:57 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2007
Posts: 3,044
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I figured they did have it on their list. I was just making an observation about the possibility of gaining statistics on problem swaps involving RCs and those that didn't. I really doubt they'd ever bother with it, but it wouldn't be worthless if they did, IMO, anyway.

Date Posted: 3/8/2010 12:20 AM ET
Member Since: 1/12/2009
Posts: 262
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Thanks, Melanie!

 

Sadly, some people's RC's just reinforce the rules.  One I responded to just recently stated he wanted books without highlighting, water damage, torn covers, etc. none of which are postable to begin with.   He told me he was tired of getting awful books.  When I sent him my book  he was so thrilled b/c it actually followed the guidelines!  I don't think  people should have to make a point of stating what should be standard procedure.  Especially when those books should never have been posted in the first place.       D.

 

Edited to fix spelling   :)



Last Edited on: 3/8/10 12:23 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 3/8/2010 11:35 AM ET
Member Since: 6/12/2009
Posts: 81
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I have RC's, but 95% of my RWAP's are for books that would have been unpostable regardless.  These are issues like water damage, books posted under the wrong ISBN or format, and books with a lot of writing or highlighting in them.  If anything, my RC's seem to make people think twice about sending me an unpostable.  I've had several comments when declining my RC's that go along the lines of "Book is full of highlighting, so I won't send" or "Book is falling apart".

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