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Topic: Something I saw at Amazon...

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Subject: Something I saw at Amazon...
Date Posted: 1/4/2009 2:07 PM ET
Member Since: 12/4/2005
Posts: 2,320
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I had clicked on a link in a post here at PBS which took me to a book description at Amazon.  At the bottom of the page were some forum thread topic links and I saw one that was something to the effect of "PBS members--want this book?"   I clicked on it and it seemed to start out as a place for people to list WL books they were planning on posting and arranging to post to whoever requested it (rather like the similiar threads in L&R or Paranormal forums).   I went to the most current page and was a bit surprised to see that somewhere along the line people had started asking for 2 credits for tradesized and erotica (ex. Ellora's Cave, Aphrodesia, New Concepts, Brava).   So, essentially these members are going around the PBS site and gaining extra credits for books that are only worth one credit and members are taking them up on it. 

Wondering if anyone else had seen this--I don't mind the original intent of the post there about the PBS WL thing but it bothers me that they are taking extra book credits from people--clearly in violation of the PBS rules.   Not trying to be a narc just was surprised to stumble across that with a few random clicks on links.



Last Edited on: 1/4/09 2:08 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/4/2009 2:21 PM ET
Member Since: 6/21/2007
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Last Edited on: 2/2/15 4:38 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/4/2009 2:40 PM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
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I STRONGLY agree with Jeri.  PBS needs to be made aware of this.  If you send in feedback (and I hope you do) try to include any and all pertinent URLs so that PBS can look into this as fully as possible. 

You're no "narc".  PBS relies on the help of its members to keep things running smoothly.  The system as a whole works best when more of us participate, and if there's a member (or group of members) violating the rules, then there's a disruption to the process as usual, with which PBS (I'm sure) would prefer to deal.  By reporting this you'll have done a great service to PBS and to each and every rule abiding member of the site, so, from me at least, thanks in advance!

Date Posted: 1/4/2009 2:53 PM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
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ditto

Date Posted: 1/4/2009 3:51 PM ET
Member Since: 12/4/2005
Posts: 2,320
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Thanks ya'll:)  I'll forward the link to the thread.  I appreciate the input. 

Date Posted: 1/4/2009 4:37 PM ET
Member Since: 10/23/2005
Posts: 7,719
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Thanks Donna, for protecting PBS and doing your part to keep it going. One Book = One Credit is one of the basic tenets of PBS, I, for one, would hate to see bidding wars on WL books. It works great the way it is and is the fairest way. Thank you for looking out for us.

Date Posted: 1/4/2009 4:49 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2007
Posts: 11,466
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Thank you for alerting the PBS team about this.  I don't know what they could do since it's posted on Amazon but 2 credits for one book is not right.  Of course, people couldn't get away with demanding that if no one was willing to pay them 2 credits for a book.

If people have problems with posting their tradesized or erotica books for one credit, then they shouldn't list them here.  Take them to one of the numerous sites where you can sell them.

Date Posted: 1/4/2009 6:01 PM ET
Member Since: 7/23/2006
Posts: 15,930
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This happened before.  I can't remember the details of what happened, but I agree PBS needs to know.

 

Date Posted: 1/4/2009 6:06 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Interesting that you found that - it isn't easy to find things like that.  The internet world can be much smaller than we think sometimes.  I agree that you should report this with all particulars since the PBS system (economy) depends on people following the rules.  I am so amazed that we can stumble across this sort of thing - it's like a internet mafia type thing.  Very creative of them!

Ruth

Date Posted: 1/4/2009 7:21 PM ET
Member Since: 12/4/2005
Posts: 2,320
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I'm wondering if I could even find it again had I not cut the link when I found it.  I don't even remember the book that was at the top of the link:lol:  Just know it was a link in the L&R forum to a book and I happened to scroll too quickly and noticed PBS in the topics.   I don't normally follow from link to link online but PBS caught my eye.  

I post mostly new or like new books and a bunch of trade sized and erotica and sure I could sell them but I like posting them here.  All I want is a credit for another book that most likely will end up back in rotation here.  I was surprised that the other pbser's didn't call them out on it when the first person brought up the 2 credit per book offer.   They couldn't get away with it unless someone was willing to "pay" it. 

Glad to see I wasn't overreacting by mentioning it here. 

Date Posted: 1/4/2009 7:48 PM ET
Member Since: 10/26/2008
Posts: 9,884
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Last Edited on: 8/31/12 1:11 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 1/4/2009 8:12 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
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Last Edited on: 9/15/10 10:19 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/4/2009 8:26 PM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
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Their attitudes criticizing the "PBS Police" are humorous.  I've seen that attitude before, in grade school I think.  Kids who got caught cheating on tests and didn't like it had the same tone.  I posted the Help Center page relevant to their activities and hopefully PBS will nip the rest in the bud.



Last Edited on: 1/4/09 8:26 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/4/2009 8:40 PM ET
Member Since: 10/26/2008
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Last Edited on: 8/31/12 1:12 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/4/2009 9:37 PM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
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Now I'm accused of not even being a real person!  The nerve of some people...

 edited to add (much later than I should have) - Thanks Jonnie :)



Last Edited on: 1/4/09 10:13 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/4/2009 10:27 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,800
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OK - this is the strangest thing I've seen on PBS!  LOL  strange strange strange

I don't mean you JimiJam - I mean the Amazon group.  

Date Posted: 1/4/2009 10:30 PM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
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S'ok Cozi, I believe I qualify as "odd" in my way lol.

Subject: Amazon
Date Posted: 1/5/2009 12:49 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,171
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Donna, you are a narc and the rest are whiners.  I have traded many, many books (hundreds) at PBS, some of them I could have sold on e-bay for $40 or $50 ea, but I traded them free to the next person on the wait list at PaperBackSwap.   My book credits are mine and honestly earned, just what business is it of yours if I give the occasional credit to a friend?  PBS does provide a button to directly post books to friends, so this is clearly allowable.  There is also a PBS button to gift credits to another member, so this is also allowable. 

We are experiencing some of the worst winter weather in decades, our country is in the midst of a significant recession, businesses are failing, many people are unemployed, 1 in 10 mortgages nationally is at risk of default, and the worst may be yet to come...and you people want to whine about a few (and that's all it is, a very few) credits freely and voluntarily transferred between friends?  I've donated more credits than this to strangers.  Don't you have something better to do?  Get a freaking life.



Last Edited on: 1/5/09 12:51 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 1/5/2009 1:01 AM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Looks as if someone doesn't understand the real why's and wherefore's of PBS's rules.  There is reason for the one credit per book and bypassing the PBS system puts PBS at risk because of outside limitations like the IRS.  If one were gifting a credit or loaning a credit a book wouldn't be involved in the agreement. 

Yes, we are in the economic straits mentioned.  That's one of the most important reasons we need to keep PBS alive and healthy!

 

Date Posted: 1/5/2009 1:02 AM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
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I traded them free - Denise, books here aren't "free", they cost a credit, which costs either the postage of mailing a book out, or around $3.50 from the kiosk. 

what business of it is yours if I give the occasional credit to a friend - it's nobody's business when you're just gifting credits, but when there are posts blatantly offering books for 2 credits each, and people saying "ok, I'll send the extra credit", that's quite different, and becomes PBS' business.  This isn't about posting directly to another member's WL, this is about breaking the rules regarding the "price" of books here at PBS.

Nobody's "whining" except the people who think they can argue their way around the rules.  Plain and simple, the Rules are the Rules are the Rules.  You agreed to follow them when you signed up for your PBS account, and I can't imagine you really expect PBS to ignore any rule a member might feel like ignoring.  Consider how such arguments might work against speeding tickets "I can't believe you're nitpicking over a few measely miles per hour over the limit...this is so unfair, I can't believe you won't let me drive how I want to".

PBS relies on it's members to help keep the site running smoothly.  This volunteerism helps keep the costs low, which helps keep the site's membership free to all.  Nobody needs to be insulted by you just because you and your friends were caught breaking the rules.  They have done what PBS asks of anyone willing to do it.  Considering you can't even follow rules as insisted by the Terms of Service, I guess it might be confusing as to why someone would go any further.  Your attacks on Donna and rest will be reported to PBS.

Date Posted: 1/5/2009 1:08 AM ET
Member Since: 10/8/2005
Posts: 782
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What does winter weather and people's failing mortgages have to do with this????

Like Ruth said, there's a reason for the one book, one credit system. It helps keep the PBS economy equal for everyone and avoids a black market where popular books won't be available for ANYONE because people will get too greedy.

Posting to a friend and gifting credits are different things, but people who want to bend the rules want to use those NICE PBS options as a way around the system. 



Last Edited on: 1/5/09 1:10 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/5/2009 1:27 AM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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It's interesting that PBS is the site they have joined and want to stay but don't want to use the system.  There are other sites that allow more leeway than PBS - I don't understand why they aren't doing it there.  And if they are surprised that anyone at PBS noticed this little "arrangement" for trade on Amazon - which sells books for money and likes it like that - why is PBS' s name in the thread title?  And it's a thread that is a year old!  So it's been going good for them this long.  

 

Date Posted: 1/5/2009 1:42 AM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
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Not the whole time, Ruth.  The thread started on January 7th, 2008.  They didn't start violating PBS rules by asking/offering 2 credits per book until January 27th. 

What I don't get is: if, as they claim, they're really not breaking any rules, then why on Amazon and not right here, all contained within PBS?  Why the extra effort to organize elsewhere, ambiance?  Then there are the arguments that, sure, they're skirting some rules, but is it really a big deal, and how is it really anybody's (including TPTB's) business? Then there's the argument that, yes it's breaking the rules, but how lame is it that PBS actually enforces their rules? None of it washes, and it all smacks of being bitter over having been caught, and maybe a little fear of repercussion.  Considering the best defense offered has been an outright attack on Donna (which was most unfair and uncalled for), and the fact that words and attitudes are being put in my mouth regarding my single post in their supposedly open thread, I don't think it's hard to see where the line between right and wrong is drawn. 

I can't help myself, really; I'm just a stickler for rules.  It's part of why I volunteer as a Tour Guide.  I like the rules here, I see their purpose and the benefits of their existence.  I understand those rules and think I can help others understand them as well.  With this situation, it's kind of a simple thing most of us our taught in most organizations from the get go: there are rules.  You follow them, you get the benefits; you don't follow the rules, you pay consequences. 

It's funny, that there are accusations that this particular thread sounds like McCarthyism...much as I disagree with the application of such a heinous lable, at the same time  I don't really recall this club (or any, for that matter) being such a democracy that members should just be able to gang up and decide which rules come and go.  Ultimately it will be up to PBS to decide what to do with this situation, and I look forward to seeing whatever the result turns out to be. 

Date Posted: 1/5/2009 2:01 AM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Oh, My Bad!  ;D  It took a whole 20 days for it to start! 

It still is fact that they are breaking the rules and the TOS for PBS and they know it so they are doing it elsewhere in order to be left alone. 

I participate a little on the Amazon forums - not the Romance or Erotica ones - but the romance forum has gotten a reputation for some real antics.  I guess they are a fiesty bunch. 

There's still the option of going to other trade sites that don't have the "one for one" rules.  So why do they stay here?  What's the draw...maybe the emphasis on books in good condition?  I don't know.  But it all just makes me shake my head.   Terms like "narc", "whiners", etc. are really lame.  What do they expect people on PBS to do when they come across this on  another forum when they know it can't be done on this site?  Sad.

Ruth

 

 

Date Posted: 1/5/2009 2:18 AM ET
Member Since: 11/10/2006
Posts: 2,959
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Last Edited on: 1/5/09 2:23 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
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