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Topic: Sometimes people just don't play by the rules (and spirit) of PBS...

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Subject: Sometimes people just don't play by the rules (and spirit) of PBS...
Date Posted: 9/8/2007 8:27 PM ET
Member Since: 3/19/2007
Posts: 30
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I'm just so upset right now.

A PBS'er who seems really nice (from her description and the kinds of posts she makes) just did something that makes me want to SCREAM!

She had a book posted that I've had on my wish list FOREVER and I got a notification that it was in the system. SO very excited, I got to PBS as fast as I could and ordered it (It's a book that is supposed to come with a CD, in fact the TITLE of the book had "WITH CD!" in the actual title on PBS!

Happy as a clam I went off to bed.

This morning I log onto PBS to see a PM from the person who has the book that says basically, "hey - there's a CD with this book if you'd like it and if you want it, order it as well and I'll send them together."

HUH?!?!?!

I check to make sure the book I want COMES with a CD - and it does. So I PM her and explain that per PBS guidelines she is supposed to send the cd WITH the book (please!)

Later on I get an e-mail saying the book order has been cancelled. She wrote in the second message that because the CD had an ISBN as well that she re-listed it as a CD (therefore an audio book so she can get 2 credits as the book and CD are brand new and she thinks they're worth more than one credit.)

On the one hand, to be fair, I have no idea why the CD has an ISBN of it's own unless you can purchase each item separately in the store if you so choose, but I know for a fact that the one she HAD listed (which was the one I DESPRATELY want!) is supposed to include the book AND the cd.

It makes me think that now she could, in theory, get 3 credits for the lot as she has the CD listed (2 credits) and she could charge a credit for the book, too.

I'm not trying to cheat her out of her credits, but does anyone else feel my pain?!?! I just don't think it's right to list something and then decide you want MORE credits for it so you cancel the request and RE-list it. I'm not even sure it SHOULD be listed separately (though I guess she has the right to do so if it does have it's own ISBN.)

It just can't get over the fact that it doesn't seem right or fair at ALL! The book I ordered was SUPPOSED to come with a CD and I ordered it, fair and square....

Any input? Am I being a whiny brat who needs to get over it? Or am I rightfully upset?! I need some experienced PBS'ers to weigh in (...be gentle!)  :o)

 

-Sarah

 

Date Posted: 9/8/2007 8:31 PM ET
Member Since: 8/19/2007
Posts: 352
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I think IF the CD came with the book originally, it should stay with the book.  You should contact support and/or cancel the order.

Date Posted: 9/8/2007 8:40 PM ET
Member Since: 5/6/2007
Posts: 1,829
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If the title says with CD, the book should come with the CD.  If it came with a CD, but that wasn't listed, I might understand.  But in the situation you describe, I think you are rightfully upset.  Just like with a box or something...if they are posted together they go together - for 1 credit.  And that is stated in the Help Center:

Books that require supplementary Media materials may be posted

  • supplementary Media materials include CD(s)/CD-ROMs/DVD(s)/VHS tape(s)
  • if so, the supplementary must accompany the book if the book originally included them

Edited to clarify



Last Edited on: 9/8/07 8:41 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/8/2007 8:41 PM ET
Member Since: 1/29/2006
Posts: 54,837
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Sarah, I would ask the PBS Team about that, too, actually.  The rules do state that if a book came w/ the CD originally, then the book cannot be posted without the CD...but, like you, I don't understand the CD having its own ISBN.......

The up side is that SHE canceled, so you got your place back in the WL line.  (not that this helps with this transaction, of course)

Date Posted: 9/8/2007 8:59 PM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
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It would be my opinion that the sender is borrowing trouble.  If the description clearly states "with CD" and she sends it without, then the person who receives it could very well say they received the wrong book and she'd be out a credit anyway.  It's too bad that she's working the system like this.  My guess is that it will backfire on her, because anyone who orders it will expect it to meet the described conditon of having a CD with it.  It probably has it's own isbn because it's a seperate medium, not because it's to be sold seperatly.

Date Posted: 9/8/2007 9:53 PM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2007
Posts: 5,526
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If the CD came with the book and it the books says a CD comes with it, then she should send it with the book and not list it separately.

now you could offer to buddy her 1 credit if she would send the book and the cd together for a total of 2 credits.  I don't know how often this book is listed but it might be an option that would get you the book & cd and make her happy?  although with her actions I'm not sure I'd want it from her anyway.  but that is your call

Date Posted: 9/8/2007 9:55 PM ET
Member Since: 11/10/2006
Posts: 2,983
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Wouldn't the cd have to be an audio book to qualify for 2 separate credits? If it is an accompanying cd (say a bio of Mozart and a cd of his most popular concertos), the cd is an integral part of the book and must be included in the book, available for one credit.

I don't listen to audio books but, it would seem odd to include an audio of the book with the paper book. That's why I would think it is not postable as a separate item.

Date Posted: 9/8/2007 9:58 PM ET
Member Since: 11/10/2006
Posts: 2,983
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now you could offer to buddy her 1 credit if she would send the book and the cd together for a total of 2 credits

Technically, you cannot do that. Site rules are 1 book = 1 credit ( or 2 in the case of an audio book) and prohibits ASKING for or OFFERING more than that.

Date Posted: 9/8/2007 10:06 PM ET
Member Since: 11/18/2006
Posts: 246
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Would it not be weird to get the CD without the book also? A lot of times these books that come with CDs are meant to go along with the books so to speak and do not really stand alone. I wouldn't think that they are separate items and wouldn't list them as such if it were me.

Date Posted: 9/8/2007 10:13 PM ET
Member Since: 3/19/2007
Posts: 30
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Well apparently she CAN list it as an audio book because it's listed now in the system that way.

It doesn't make sense to me really; I don't think the CD is supposed to be separate from the book, but because it has it's own isbn, and it's a cd that is a learning audio cd, then it's showing up now as an audio book (worth 2 credits).

The initial listing which had the book (with cd!) that I wanted was NOT an audio book; it was a book that is supposed to have a CD with it - therefore it was worth only one credit. She stated to me that since it seems to be new or almost new, she wanted to get 2 credits for it. I guess she posted it with the CD's isbn; whether or not the book accompanies the CD is a good question. I don't think she's dishonest, but now I wonder if she'd charge me for the book ALSO, meaning I'd now have to fork over 3 credits for something that seems like it SHOULD be worth 1. On the one hand I want it badly enough to pay 2 credits for it, but on the other hand it just doesn't seem fair and I'm hesitant to try and order the CD lest the book not TECHNICALLY have to be included.

I've PM'ed the person again asking her to reconsider, but so far, no response.

It just seems greedy to me. I understand thinking a book (esp. a NICE one that's expensive and/or brand new) is worth more than ONE credit; but that's where you eBay it or something - if you list it on PBS you're not supposed to be asking for more than one credit.

I will research it further, but if the CD is SUPPOSED to accompany the book then I might bring it to R&R's attention and let them decide...

 

-Sarah



Last Edited on: 9/8/07 10:15 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/8/2007 10:35 PM ET
Member Since: 8/6/2006
Posts: 592
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I would definately notify R&R and send a copy of her emails. The book should not have been listed if she did not intend to send the cd.  Just because the cd has an isbn does not mean it can be posted.  As Charlie said, it's probably not an audiobook but an accompanying cd.  Unfortuately, since our database came from someone else, there are many things that can be listed that are not allowed.....coloring books, calendars, journals, music cds.

Date Posted: 9/8/2007 10:53 PM ET
Member Since: 8/3/2007
Posts: 401
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Hmm.. the 2 books I sent that came with CDs, when I posted them, it didn't say on the site that they came with a CD... But one of them at least had a price printed on it, for the cost with or without CD. But of course, I sent the CDs with them anyway since they go with the instruction.

Date Posted: 9/8/2007 10:56 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,800
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I think this person could have listed it either of two ways:   A CD with a book = 2 credits   OR A book with a CD = 1 credit.   Since both have ISBN numbers I think she could have done this.    HOWEVER - she did NOTchoose the first option but rather the second one.   She listed the book and it should have come with the CD.   It was not fair for her to "change" the listing AFTER you ordered the book.    I hope you get the book and CD you wanted without it costing you 3 credits.     I am so sorry you've had to go through this experience. 

Date Posted: 9/8/2007 11:22 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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The CD cannot be listed within the rules. She can list it, yeah,but now it needs to be reported in the suspicious items topic as a CD that accompanies a book, rather than an audio book.

In no way does the accompanying CD qualify as a stand alone item. You need to report this immediately and hopefully R&R will be able to get to it quickly. They are in the middle of doing something that is causing other problems, or they are working on fixing something that is causing problems, whatever the site is being funky right now! hahahaha

But definitely report this using the feedback in the Help Center.

Date Posted: 9/8/2007 11:34 PM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
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Is the CD an audio version of the book, or an addition to the book?  Like some of my medical text books came with CD's that contain dictionaries and drug lists and stuff, but they're not audio's of the book itself.

Date Posted: 9/8/2007 11:34 PM ET
Member Since: 3/19/2007
Posts: 30
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Well, thanks for your help guys. I really felt supported! When I went to look the item up again, funnily enough, now the CD is not listed anymore.

I'm guessing she saw this thread and decided to just pull it off her shelf.

I guess I should have just ordered the CD/"audiobook" and hoped she included the book that went with it; now it looks like I won't get it at all.... It just really bothered me that this happened and I was HOPING she'd come around. Now I've shot myself in the proverbial foot for opening my big mouth.

 

-Sarah

 

 

Date Posted: 9/8/2007 11:37 PM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
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I'm sorry.  It's no fun when people wont play by the rules and then they take their ball and go home to top it off.

Date Posted: 9/8/2007 11:42 PM ET
Member Since: 3/19/2007
Posts: 30
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What REALLY stinks is that I TOLD her why I wanted this book so desprately.

My son is in a French Language Immersion program at his school and is struggling with the spoken part of French (he seems to understand fairly well but is afraid to try to speak it.)  This set was specifically aimed at 9-12 year olds and sounded like FUN!

When I PM'ed her about the CD and how it was supposed to be included,  I wasn't NASTY or accusing - I just told her how much I wanted the book to help my son out and that although I believed her that it was a really nice set, that the book was supposed to have the CD with it per PBS guidelines. I even PM'ed her again and asked her to reconsider. I didn't beg or threaten - I just tried to reason with her.

Well, that didn't work.

And to top it off, she's apparently a school librarian. You would think she'd sympathize with why I so desprately want to help my child academically!

I even looked at her wish list last night and saw a book she wanted that I think I have (not posted, but in a pile of books to read.) I was considering sending it as a big THANK YOU to her if we worked this all out - but I didn't say anything because 1) I wanted it to be a surprize and 2) I didn't want to seem like I was "sweetening" the deal or trying to bribe her.

 

This sucks!!!!

 

-Sarah



Last Edited on: 9/8/07 11:42 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/9/2007 1:29 AM ET
Member Since: 8/6/2006
Posts: 592
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Just for the record, I don't believe she could have  listed it as  a CD with a book.  The category is audiobook.  It doesn't appear this was an audiobook, but an accompanying cd.

Date Posted: 9/9/2007 8:13 AM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
Posts: 5,705
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It doesn't sound fair to me Sarah.  I know you needed it now, but you're probably better off waiting for the next person.  I hope it's not too long........

Date Posted: 9/9/2007 8:53 AM ET
Member Since: 6/13/2007
Posts: 905
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 that's a drag sarah.  I know it's much better to be able to get it here,  but if it's not in system perhaps  half dot com or amazon used would have it.  shame that the person didn't do the right thing and send the book and cd like it was listed.

Date Posted: 9/9/2007 10:33 AM ET
Member Since: 1/28/2006
Posts: 8
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 Well there has to be a good reason why she feels the need to do what she is doing . Like someone suggested above maybe purchasing it from somewhere online might be the best bit . It is quite sad and we may never know the reason(s) the cd was held back but I think overall alot of people have had good experiences here. A majority of people on here are very giving and go beyond the call of duty when it comes to making a book lover happy . She may be in the miniority and she does have the right to do whatever she feels like with her book .

 I hope your get the book soon .

 

 

Date Posted: 9/9/2007 10:34 AM ET
Member Since: 2/16/2006
Posts: 1,956
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It looks like the book/CD sells at Amazon.com for about $10 new and $4 used, so the expensive argument doesn't really apply.  It doesn't really cost any more than a trade size paperback.

Date Posted: 9/9/2007 12:36 PM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2007
Posts: 5,526
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Last Edited on: 9/9/07 12:39 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/9/2007 5:55 PM ET
Member Since: 11/9/2005
Posts: 330
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Per PBS rules the CD must accompany the Book:

From the Help Center (Notice the last bulletpoint):

Supplementary/Accompanying Materials:

  • Books that require non-Media supplementary materials may not be posted

    • an example would be a book that requires a decoder or craft materials
    • these items cannot be sent MediaMail
  • Books that require supplementary Media materials may be posted
    • supplementary Media materials include CD(s)/CD-ROMs/DVD(s)/VHS tape(s)
    • if so, the supplementary must accompany the book if the book originally included them
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