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Topic: Not Sure if RWAP

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Subject: Not Sure if RWAP
Date Posted: 3/22/2013 4:44 PM ET
Member Since: 4/30/2012
Posts: 127
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A book I received today has me wondering if it was really a postable book.

I looked in the help docs on postability of books and found this : a small rip (less than 1 inch) in the cover is OKAY

BUT if that same rip goes through several pages, is that still ok? It's more like a gouge that pentrated through the back cover and about 114 pages deep.

It is about 1" in length and yes the book is still readable, though it does look very abused as the entire cover is bent and creased.

I'm not so worried about it for myself, but most books I get I re-post them when I'm done reading them, but I don't think I'd want to chance it with this one.

Sooo, do I mark it RWAP or let it slide?

Date Posted: 3/22/2013 5:06 PM ET
Member Since: 9/25/2008
Posts: 3,666
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The site guidelines say no torn pages so you could mark it received with a problem. It is up to you whether you want to ask for your credit back. 114 pages is a lot though. 

The bent and creased cover would be postable though and the tear less than an inch.

If it is a wishlist book you could post it in the book bazaar, describe the condition and can ask a credit for it.

Date Posted: 3/22/2013 5:20 PM ET
Member Since: 11/11/2011
Posts: 593
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I have understood the rules to say a small rip less than one inch on the COVER is okay, but no ripped text pages.  I have a couple of books that look brand new but they have a page or two with a very tiny tear on them.  I did not post them. 

I know it is hard to RWAP books and there have been several instances where I should have but decided to give the sender the benefit of the doubt.  I have only done it once because a book was so badly chewed up there was no doubt it did not meet the guidelines.  I have also received quite a few books in deals that didn't meet the guidelines, but then it was a deal . . . so I let it go.

It sounds like this is very obviously against the rules and in this case, I would RWAP it.  Just copy the posting guidelines in your PM and nicely explain that this book does not meet them and you will not be able to repost it. 

Hope it goes well!

Date Posted: 3/22/2013 5:21 PM ET
Member Since: 10/22/2009
Posts: 1,452
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Definitely a RWAP--based on the "no torn pages" guidelines that Rebecca mentioned. 

For a book as you describe, I'd definitely ask for my credit back--there is no way that the damage would have been inadvertently missed by the sending party.  Good luck!

Date Posted: 3/22/2013 6:22 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,171
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RWAP if the cover damage extends to text pages.

Date Posted: 3/22/2013 11:12 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,725
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If the pages are not story pages, then they can be missing from the book completely and the book would be postable.

The cover sounds OK. If the pages with rips are the introductory pages ... the "review" pages, book teaser pages, etc, just neatly remove them altogether and the book will magically become postable again.

Lori M. (ripley) - ,
Date Posted: 3/22/2013 11:42 PM ET
Member Since: 12/19/2005
Posts: 1,564
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A gouge through 114 pages sounds like damage in transit. Was the packaging damaged at all or did it look like it had been repackaged by the post office?

Date Posted: 3/23/2013 2:26 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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The cover sounds OK. If the pages with rips are the introductory pages ... the "review" pages, book teaser pages, etc, just neatly remove them altogether and the book will magically become postable again.

 
This has been discussed in the Tour Guide lounge. Although the site agreed that we should use good judgement in what we expect to find in a book, they would not say that a receiver could not mark a book as received with damage when pages that contained parts of the book following were removed. It was up to the receiver to decide if the pages with text on them that were not the story itself, but were related to the story were considered "text" for purposes of the rules. Some members want to read the reviews. Some want the intro to the current book or the read the intro to the next story. It is the receiver's right to decide whether those pages are important.  Giving this advice could end up causing someone to get a RWAP which would not be defendable.
 
 


Last Edited on: 3/23/13 2:26 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/23/2013 3:17 PM ET
Member Since: 4/30/2012
Posts: 127
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The book was not damaged in transit. There were no holes or tears in the bubble envelope. The book just simply looked like it had been abused badly.

Like I said, the entire cover was badly bent and creased. I don't know if someone got mad at the book and tried to wring it, lol, and I have NO idea how that deep of a tear could have occured. A wringing seems like the best scenerio, because the tear is right near the spine, in fact it goes into the spine a bit, but none of the pages are loose.

I did RWAP and describe the best I could what the problem was and requested my credit back, but so far nothing has happened. I don't know how these things are handled because this is the fist time I've had to do this. This is WL'd book that I was hoping to read and then pass on, but I wouldn't do that now. I can read it of course, but then I'll probably give it to Goodwill.

 

ETA: I would never tear pages out of a book and then post it. I wouldn't want that done to me either.



Last Edited on: 3/23/13 3:18 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/23/2013 4:53 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
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Janet, thanks for doing your part to help members follow (and, in some cases, finally read) the rules.  Keep an eye on your credit registry -- sometimes folks will refund the credit and say nothing.  If you don't hear anything for a week or so, you might send a followup PM, with brief instructions on how to refund your credit (from the Details page in the Transaction Archive) and politely remind them that you don't want to have to mark the transaction that they did not respond, as it will put 2 black marks on their account, rather than one -- hopefully that will help them do the right thing.

Date Posted: 3/23/2013 11:49 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,725
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ETA: I would never tear pages out of a book and then post it. I wouldn't want that done to me either.

Well, I've certainly done this when warranted. And I don't care if I receive books like that, either. Although I slice them out if necessary, not rip them out.

 It is the receiver's right to decide whether those pages are important. Giving this advice could end up causing someone to get a RWAP which would not be defendable.

Yes, its defendable. The rules clearly state "no loose or missing text pages", not "no missing pages". It's a gray area, and a receiver can choose to RWAP it or not, and the sender can choose to refund a credit or not.

It may not be clearly allowed in the rules, but it is also clearly not against the rules, by any means.



Last Edited on: 3/23/13 11:50 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/24/2013 10:08 PM ET
Member Since: 4/28/2009
Posts: 9,576
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I agree with Sara.   I have found many times that people will remove a non-text page if it was signed by the author or a note written by the giver when the book was a gift. I have seen very few RCs stating they won't accept books with a gifter's note.

Date Posted: 3/27/2013 12:39 PM ET
Member Since: 4/30/2012
Posts: 127
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The transaction was resolved to my satisfaction, but I don't think the sender was too happy.

Her message: I have mailed out 1051 books since belonging to this site and you are the first to have ever asked for a refund of credit for a damaged book. If there is a tear, I honestly did not notice it and will be happy to refund your credit. I have gotten some shaky books as well but was glad to get them anyways as I waited forever for them.

I honestly don't know how she could NOT have noticed it because when you are holding the open book in your hand your finger could go right through the tear in the back if you are not careful. But it sounded to me that even though the book was damaged I should just be glad I got it. Anyway, I'm glad it was resolved and thanks for everyone's help.

Date Posted: 3/27/2013 6:26 PM ET
Member Since: 9/25/2008
Posts: 3,666
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Senders who mail bad books get defensive when they get called out on it. I'm glad you received your credit back though.