Discussion Forums - Questions about PaperBackSwap Questions about PaperBackSwap

Topic: should we have a "tags to clean up" thread?

Club rule - Please, if you cannot be courteous and respectful, do not post in this forum.
Page:   Unlock Forum posting with Annual Membership.
Subject: should we have a "tags to clean up" thread?
Date Posted: 8/17/2008 1:44 AM ET
Member Since: 5/3/2006
Posts: 6,436
Back To Top

I was assuming this would happen and am kind of surprised it hasn't yet. With so many books and so many tags, I don't think the tag reporting is likely to have much effect otherwise.

Date Posted: 8/17/2008 3:20 AM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,800
Back To Top

Oh YES LET'S!!!    Everyone jump on the bandwagon and get all those nasty tags off the site!    Said sarcastically, of course.   I think it can be managed without a police force to do it, even if it's a volunteer force.    That's the problem with this whole new "tag" ideal.   It makes us all judges of what is and IS NOT appropiate. 

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 8/17/2008 6:11 AM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
Back To Top

edited to remove



Last Edited on: 8/17/08 6:12 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/17/2008 12:53 PM ET
Member Since: 5/3/2006
Posts: 6,436
Back To Top

Cozette, I was assuming that such a thread would be firmly based on the PBS guidelines for appropriate/inappropriate tags.

I don't like the new tag policy either, but since it's here, I would like it to at least achieve its purpose, which I find highly improbable. So we're stuck with a dumb system that probably isn't even going to have the helpful effect intended.

Date Posted: 8/17/2008 1:35 PM ET
Member Since: 3/20/2007
Posts: 142
Back To Top

I have tags on my wishlisted books that some may find annonying because they are only meaningful to me and I hope they don't get removed, but with that being said, I think Willa has a point.  I've noticed a few books where someone was trying to be helpful by labeling with the name of the main character or some other well-meaning characteristic, but ended up misspelling the word.  I think it would help to get a few of those cleaned up.  A great example is the "Newbury Award" versus the "Newberry Award". 

Date Posted: 8/17/2008 3:10 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
Back To Top

I think all the reduntant tags are annoying.  I don't need a tag to tell me the author's name.  It's on the listing.  Now a tag saying it's part of a series or that it's an abridged audio-that's helpful.  I think they should allow the personal tags.  I'm smart enough to know that  a tag saying "my tbr" wasn't put there by me.  I'm also smart enough to know that if there's an "unpostable" or "water damaged" tag or something that it's not every book-just someone's personal note. But I do think the book description tags should be removed because I know there are people out there who will tag an unpostable book and post it anyway and say "well it was tagged so it's ok to send". 

Date Posted: 8/17/2008 3:58 PM ET
Member Since: 5/3/2006
Posts: 6,436
Back To Top

I find redundant tags annoying, but I don't know why people used them - perhaps its part of how they organize. They're not against the rules, so I wouldn't report them.

I'm most bothered by spoilers about the book, and innaccurate information. For example, I read a book that was tagged "1st in series" and it was actually fourth, and I was completely lost when I read the book.

Date Posted: 8/17/2008 4:10 PM ET
Member Since: 2/11/2007
Posts: 808
Back To Top

I know of some factually incorrect tags. I don't think there's any question that some need to go.

Date Posted: 8/17/2008 4:25 PM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
Back To Top

I remember when folks were rating reviews.  Someone would get upset that their review got a thumbs down.  They would try to figure out who it was, then they'd go give that person all thumbs down on their reviews.  There were a lot of hurt feelings.  A lot of threads began with "Someone just gave all my reviews a "thumbs down".  Then that person's friends would go give their reviews a bunch of thumbs up.  It was goofy and dragged on and on.  To let the general public judge what's appropriate or not is only asking for a revisiting of that particular high school type drama. 

Here we go again!

Date Posted: 8/17/2008 4:50 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,800
Back To Top

Thank you Julie!  That is what I have been trying - not too well - to say all along.  Thank you

Date Posted: 8/17/2008 8:24 PM ET
Member Since: 5/3/2006
Posts: 6,436
Back To Top

Okay, so I guess that's a "no" then. Though the review rating is still going on, in this forum.

Date Posted: 8/17/2008 9:09 PM ET
Member Since: 7/30/2005
Posts: 583
Back To Top

There are only a couple of instances when I can see removing someone elses tags.  One would be if there was clearly incorrect information,(Like Willa's example of a tag that read "1st in series" when it was the 4th.) or if the tag mentions the condition of the book.

Maybe another clean-up could be redundant tags.  Today I was tagging some of my books and created a new tag called "imperfect hero".  Somewhere along the way I stumbled across someone elses tag that read "Less than perfect hero/heroine".  So, I went back and deleted my "imperfect hero" tag and used the other.  Hopefully the tag I created will no longer be in the system if it doesn't have any books attached to it.  Other examples would be singular vs. plural.  I've seen "witch" & "witches", "bounty hunter" and "bounty hunters", "time travel" and "time-travel".  Maybe someone can combine these somehow.  I think it would eventually make it easier to search on these topics.

The personal tags don't bother me one bit.  If someone uses TBR-rlm or Box 112, I can just ignore it. 

Robin

 

 

Date Posted: 8/17/2008 9:23 PM ET
Member Since: 1/13/2005
Posts: 2,317
Back To Top

I wish they had simply created two types of tags - public and private.  If we could set personal tags to be visible only to the member who made them, it would make the tags much less distracting, and actually useful.  It would also make it easier to report tags that, as *public* tags, are not appropriate because they're only useful to one person.  If enough people report the tag, it is simply reset as a private tag, rather than deleted entirely. 

It sounds really simple, but I may be suggesting a huge programming nightmare, or something that would eat server resources at an insane rate.

Date Posted: 8/17/2008 9:47 PM ET
Member Since: 2/11/2007
Posts: 808
Back To Top

Ann  -- it was explained earlier that doing so would be morer than the PBS system server could handle.

Date Posted: 8/17/2008 10:46 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
Back To Top

I've been tempted to hit the "r" on some reduntant ones.  Like today I was looking at a book and someone had tagged with the author's name.  The author's name is at the top and you can just search the by the author's name if you want to bring up all their books. It doesn't need a tag with her name on it as well.  But I don't want to get in trouble for flagging too many tags as inappropriate.

 

Date Posted: 8/18/2008 12:05 AM ET
Member Since: 5/3/2006
Posts: 6,436
Back To Top

I'm tempted too, but again, I don't know if that might be part of someone's organization system and don't want to mess with it it it is.

Date Posted: 8/18/2008 1:47 AM ET
Member Since: 1/29/2006
Posts: 54,837
Back To Top

Cozi Said:  I think it can be managed without a police force to do it, even if it's a volunteer force.    That's the problem with this whole new "tag" ideal.   It makes us all judges of what is and IS NOT appropiate.  

Thank you, Cozi! my feelings *exactly* (I thought you said it pretty well. ;-)

 

Mary Said: I've been tempted to hit the "r" on some reduntant ones.

Redundant to whom?, is the question.  You find the author redunant, but maybe that was someone *else's* attempt at "relevant".  You know, make good relevant tags so that the irrelevant ones drop off?   Personally, I think allowing us to decide what should be removed is a mistake.  (but, alas, no one asked me, lol) 

If they are not factually incorrect, swear words, reviews, conditions or something equally inappropriate, I think they should be left alone.  I mean, is it THAT hard to ignore the ones that are not useful to you?  (IMO, this includes spelling errors.  They might be technically incorrect, but not factually)

Every tag that gets deleted was created by *someone*.  As Willa said, many of these tags help someone else organize.  They might seem redundant, or just plain useless, to many PBSers, but what about the person who took the time to make them? Well, they clearly meant something to someone.

Again, personally, I'd rather see the tags go away entirely than have this type of thing going on.  People were told tags could be used for personal tags;they didn't have to mean anything to anyone else.  These people followed the rules when they made the tags, but now PBS Membership gets to decide if they can keep them???  How incredibly *not* fair.

(Oh, and just for the record, I use very few tags, and none of them personal)

Date Posted: 8/18/2008 3:13 AM ET
Member Since: 6/15/2006
Posts: 1,691
Back To Top

I have used the author's name when tagging books.  Here is one example that I just couldn't mentally keep straight.

For example, Janet Evanovich, who currently publishes under her real name, has previously published books under a different name.  Most of those books are being republished under her real name.  I've seen entries for those books under either or both names. 

To confuse matters more, the books were also numbered by one of two imprints and may have had different original titles.  Even her webpage was confusing when there weren't dj photos and a re-release schedule in a cute little table. 

"Ivan Takes a Wife" was #343, Loveswept and published under the name Steffie Hall.  It was rereleased as "Love Overboard" by Janet Evanovich.

(On another note, maybe someone knows a better way of searching using tags than I do to make them useful?  All I know how to do is  click on an existing tag to find other books with the same tag and that doesn't help me a lot when starting from scratch or trying to narrow something down.) 

Date Posted: 8/18/2008 7:32 AM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,597
Back To Top

It's so much easier to have tags just totally turned off. That way, YOUR personal tags still show up but you don't get all the other gobbledegook that other folks have listed.

Cheryl

Date Posted: 8/18/2008 12:58 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,800
Back To Top

Thanks Cheryl - that may be the best solution of all!   I don't know why this bugs me so much, but it does!  LOL   So I think I'll just turn em off and forget about them.  Thanks again!    Now why didn't I think of that??

Date Posted: 8/18/2008 1:06 PM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
Back To Top

Ange, part of the reason behind this tag rating business is so that eventually tags can become searchable by simply typing the tag-word into the search field.

removed

I think I've got the crux of the situation wrong lol. 



Last Edited on: 8/18/08 6:52 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 8/18/2008 5:37 PM ET
Member Since: 5/3/2006
Posts: 6,436
Back To Top

I hadn't realized that, actually. That makes me hate the new system even more.

Date Posted: 8/18/2008 6:31 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,185
Back To Top

...they are completely deleted, not simply for a particular book.  If a tag is appropriate in 9 uses but inappropriate in the 10th, and enough people review that 10th use as such, the tag is removed for the other 9 as well.  It only takes one incorrect application of each tag to remove them from every book completely, instead of simply pruning bad instances away and leaving the good.  If this scenario didn't play out, I don't think anyone would really have any problems with the changes at all.

This is the way it is really happening? Because that is not what they say is supposed to happen. It would be absolutely assinine to do it that way. If we report the Amish tag as Inappropriate on the Mennonite book it will remove it from the Amish books as well??? If it is doing that then their implementation is not working the way it is supposed to. I think there is probably a different explanation for it. Like *helpful* people are pulling up full lists of people's personal tags and hitting every book with that tag as inappropriate.

What's New is says:

  • After a certain number of members have reported the tag for that particular book, it will be automatically deleted from that book only. This allows members to get rid of tags that are inappropriate for a certain book without removing it from other books where it may be appropriate.
  • Date Posted: 8/18/2008 6:53 PM ET
    Member Since: 6/4/2007
    Posts: 2,941
    Back To Top

    I had been under that impression based on the nature of the complaints, though it's rather likely that I've gotten it wrong.  Thanks for the clarification, Melanie, now I'm back to having only complaints about the complaints :)

    Date Posted: 8/19/2008 12:06 AM ET
    Member Since: 5/20/2008
    Posts: 1,123
    Back To Top

    I really think the best thing for us all to do would be to tag books with appropriate tags, pushing the personal tags off the pages. But of course that would take a lot of work, since each page accepts the top ten tags!

    Page: