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Topic: Technically did not meet requestor condition.

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Subject: Technically did not meet requestor condition.
Date Posted: 4/20/2008 11:04 AM ET
Member Since: 10/8/2007
Posts: 1,951
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I got a request today for a book with the condition "All hardcover books must include dust jackets."

I can respect that entirely - however, the book in question was a hardcover that was not published with a dust jacket.  I was going to okay the trade, but when the little window popped up asking 'are you certain the book meets the requestor's conditions?' - I didn't feel certain, because technically the book does not meet the conditions.

I feel badly about it - but I hope other members would understand the position I was in. I don't wish to pay to send something out and have the trade turned down on a technicality - - so I didn't send it out, on that same technicality.

I may be overthinking this - on another day, I may have just said 'screw it, they will understand that this book wasn't printed with a jacket', but - to me - this is a fault in the requester's conditions, and perhaps the automated responce features.  I would have gladly checked with the requestor about this, but I did not have access to their PM without accepting the trade (which I could not do - because I can not be certain that it meets their condition, since it technically does not).

So... anyone who has that condition listed, you may want to consider covering this base by allowing the exception 'except in the case of hardcover books not published with a jacket'.

I'm sorry if this seems unreasonable, as I'm sure it would to a certain percentage of the membership - but I was trying to be as logical as the site allows for in its automated settings.  I'm also sorry for the requestor - they may well have been perfectly understanding - but as is visible on the forums here, there are some members who are far from understanding on simple day to day matters.

Date Posted: 4/20/2008 11:09 AM ET
Member Since: 2/1/2008
Posts: 3,387
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What a great idea.  I am one of those who requests that dust jackets be included with my hardcovers.  I have never encountered a hardcover that was published without a DJ (I read mostly romance and paranormal fiction).  BUT I am aware that they exist.  I just never thought of including that in my conditions.  Thanks for the suggestion.  I will clarify my conditions to reflect the HC with no DJ.  Thanks again. :)

Date Posted: 4/20/2008 11:10 AM ET
Member Since: 10/8/2007
Posts: 1,951
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I'm glad the situation could be helpful to someone!  Thanks for commenting, Heather :)

Date Posted: 4/20/2008 11:18 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2007
Posts: 1,051
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here's something you could do in the future..... if there is a RC of a required dustjacket, accept the book, then PM the requestor telling them that the book was published and sold without a dustjacket. then they have the option to say yea or nay. you can always cancel the order by the deadline.

Date Posted: 4/20/2008 11:19 AM ET
Member Since: 2/12/2008
Posts: 4,470
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You could have simply PMed the Requestor and told her that particular book didn't come with a DJ and to look up the info herself to verify it, and asked if she still wanted the book.

Date Posted: 4/20/2008 11:40 AM ET
Member Since: 10/8/2007
Posts: 1,951
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CM - To have accepted the condition - I would have had click that I was sure it met the condition - which is the crux of the problem.  If I had been untruthful and approved the book to get to their PM link - not everyone answers PMs in a timely way - and the clock would be ticking for the sending of the book. Even if I said I would mail it in a few days - there is no way to know the problem would be resolved. As it wasn't a problem of my making - I didn't feel like drawing it out at my expense. 

Jan - you can't PM the requester without having approved the condition, this is what I described in my post. 

Date Posted: 4/20/2008 11:40 AM ET
Member Since: 11/13/2005
Posts: 510
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Ah, but how are you supposed to know whether a book was published with a dust jacket or not?  A fair number of books have been published that have both illustrated covers and a dustjacket...

 

-bret

 

Date Posted: 4/20/2008 11:48 AM ET
Member Since: 10/8/2007
Posts: 1,951
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Well - its one of the Spiderwick books.  As with many young reader hardcover books (Series of Unfortunate Events, etc.) - a dust jacket is never a part of the publication.  I suppose some readers who had never seen them in a book store wouldn't be aware of this, so you make a good point.  There may even be some prestige format editions of Spiderwick books, or the movie adaptation covers, that did include a dust jacket, but they may have different ISBNs....

Its a quandry.

If a member feels strongly enough about something to go out of their way to post condition guidelines - my thought is that its better to err on the side of caution. 



Last Edited on: 4/20/08 11:57 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 4/20/2008 12:13 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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Ron I would have done the same thing. This person needs to turn those conditions off when requesting books that didn't originally have a dust jacket. 

I wish they'd put a PM button on book requests-especially when they have conditions.  Then you can PM someone and say "I think my book meets your conditions but I'm not sure". Then give them a "I'm declining if I don't here from you by x date".  This would also be handy for those people who let a request sit for a few days because they need extra time to get it in the mail because they're busy or broke. 

They put the PM button when a WL book is on hold but not for requests. 

Angie -
Date Posted: 4/20/2008 12:19 PM ET
Member Since: 2/24/2007
Posts: 3,299
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I don't think you were unreasonable. And I don't think you should have to mess around with PM'ing them and then waiting for a response either. (Unless you really want/need that credit.)

Date Posted: 4/20/2008 12:28 PM ET
Member Since: 2/12/2008
Posts: 4,470
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Ah, I thought they had finally added a PM button to the Requests. They did  recently on "Your WLs is granted"  screen. it's a small button off to the right.

You'd think on a website where communication is so key, they'd finally add this feature in for RCs too. Hope they get the money to add this feature. :)

Date Posted: 4/20/2008 12:37 PM ET
Member Since: 4/17/2008
Posts: 211
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I'm sorry for going off topic, but how do we find out if a requestor has certain conditions for the books they order?  Like the OP, I'd rather err on the side of caution instead of sending a book somebody might not want.

Date Posted: 4/20/2008 12:54 PM ET
Member Since: 10/8/2007
Posts: 1,951
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Laura - don't worry, the site has you covered.  If there are conditions, you will have to sign off on them in the original request.  You don't have to look into a requestor's conditions personally to make sure your book meets their standards - they will be shown to you at the appropriate time, before you accept the trade. 

 

Date Posted: 4/20/2008 1:13 PM ET
Member Since: 7/14/2007
Posts: 8,942
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I would have done the same thing Ron.  It truly is a PITA to have to jack around with messages back and forth that may or may not get a reply for days, leaving you in limbo.   I just put the reason for declining down in the box provided and move on.  Someone else will want the book.

Date Posted: 4/20/2008 5:44 PM ET
Member Since: 4/17/2008
Posts: 211
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If there are conditions, you will have to sign off on them in the original request.  You don't have to look into a requestor's conditions personally to make sure your book meets their standards - they will be shown to you at the appropriate time, before you accept the trade.

 

*Exhales in relief*  That's really good to know.  Thanks, Ron!

 

And, I also agree with how you handled the situation.  I would have done the same.

 

 

 

Date Posted: 4/20/2008 10:06 PM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2007
Posts: 5,526
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I think you did the right thing.  You could put in the box that would go to the requestor why you declined it (never had a DJ and perhaps they should reword their RC) this way they know why it was requested and perhaps they would go back and reword their RC's.

I put in a RC for 2 specific books that I want the DJ because they are for my keeper shelf.  hopefully they are read that they are for those books only but sometimes people decline RC for no reason other than they don't want to mess with it.

Date Posted: 4/20/2008 10:09 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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I'm going to have the same predicament. I bought a book with no dustjacket, the pictures were printed on the cover. But I can't be SURE that ISBN never had a dust jacket, KWIM? So I plan to turn down DJ requests on that one when I post it. Don't really want to chance it, since I'm not sure and there's no real way for me to find out for sure. :(

Date Posted: 4/20/2008 10:26 PM ET
Member Since: 1/13/2008
Posts: 1,728
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in my conditions i stated specific series i wanted to have a DJ. but i also remembered to say that any other HB without a DJ if perfectly fine by me.

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 4/21/2008 12:09 AM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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Just playing devil's advocate here, because I can see the other side of the fence and no one here seems to feel for the poor requestor except me, and I feel sorry that people here so often seem to be reluctant to utilize PMs...

If I had the book on my WL, and it was a book that was hardback that never came with a DJ, I would be very saddened to find that my WL request was declined because of my DJ conditions, when they obviously could never apply to a book that never had a DJ.  It'd be a major bummer.  Especially since I am a person that believes in the power of communication and a little PM to find out if I really wanted the book or not would've been really nice to receive so I could confirm how much I really wanted the book. 

A hardback that never came with a DJ is just like a paperback to me, when it comes to DJ conditions.  If it never had one to begin with,  you could never be expected to come up with one when you send out the book.  Thus the DJ condition could be ignored, just as if you would ignore it if you were sending a paperback. 

And again, I wouldn't be reluctant to utilize a PM to communicate with my fellow PBS members.

Date Posted: 4/21/2008 12:14 AM ET
Member Since: 10/8/2007
Posts: 1,951
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To PM them you need to have already accepted the (possibly unacceptable) conditions. 

Also - some version of the book may have been published with a jacket.  I utilize PMs here often, really - part of the trouble here is that PMing isn't available when the question should be answered. 

I think you may have misunderstood the situation - which is easy to do, its a little complicated.

 



Last Edited on: 4/21/08 12:34 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/21/2008 9:29 AM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2007
Posts: 5,526
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Robin, if you have a RC say that all HB must have a DJ then you need to go in and clarify your RC to state that if the book was printed w/o a DJ that it is ok to send.  to have a general statement that all HB must have DJ is not clear to the sender, I know that some times I would have no idea if it came with a DJ if I didn't purchase it personally.  I'd rather decline and be safe then accept and then have someone demand their credit back because the book didn't meet their RC.

Plus if the sender were to accept the order and then PM the person and that person says "no I don't want it" then someone has to cancel.  IF the sender cancels they lose their spot in the FIFO line and if the requestor cancels they lose their spot in the FIFO line.  I guess it would depend on if there are multiple copies or multiple requestors as to who should cancel but what a pain to figure it out!



Last Edited on: 4/21/08 9:31 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/21/2008 10:10 AM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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Robin, PBS strongly recommends that RC's be written such that a PM is not necessary. I keep seeing people saying "Well, why didn't they PM?!" Well, the response rate on many PM requests is none. What is the person who posted the book supposed to do when there's no response? Let it time out and lose FIFO if it's a standard request?

And as stated before: when it comes to HB and DJ's, there's no way to look up whether a particular ISBN was published with no DJ. If I send my HB book that I purchased with no DJ to someone who states that all HB's must have a DJ, I'll likely get a RWAP and a demand for the credit back. And if I PM the person and there's no response, then what? I've accepted the order... Do I cancel? What should I do?

I also see posts that say "I wanted that book! If they'd PM'd me about this book that didn't meet my RC's, I would have accepted it!" Well, your RC's need to state that this particular book is OK in just PBS guildeline condition. Remember that the RC already asks the poster to ensure that the book meets additional guidelines. Just how many more hoops is the poster supposed to jump through?



Last Edited on: 4/21/08 10:12 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/21/2008 5:08 PM ET
Member Since: 1/23/2006
Posts: 353
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Ron, I don't think you were unreasonable, but I do think you may have been overthinking it. and worrying too much. If a hardcover was never issued with a dust-jacket, then a requester condition asking for it would be moot.

Unless anyone here really wants to put forth that the requester's intent would be require that a dust-jacket be manufactured especially for them, I'd suggest that the condition was as irrelevant as if they had requested a paperback - it's a condition for a different type of request. In any requirement involving  X, Y or Z, there is an implicit assumption that X, Y or Z actually exist - and if they don't - well, it doesn't apply.

Personally, I'd have sent it on - but I'd also have taken 10 seconds to shoot a quick PM advising them of the status in case they weren't aware. Not necessary, but cheap insurance - if the requester wanted to be unreasonable, they could always cancel (and as long it would require them being unreasonable, I'm fine with their being the one to need to cancel).

I mean really, how could they complain?

ETA rhetorical question: - and what weight would any complaint have?



Last Edited on: 4/21/08 5:11 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 4/21/2008 5:17 PM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2005
Posts: 2,349
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If he had accepted the request. And sent a PM.  And the requestor had not responded, or had responded they disagreed (and thought it had a DJ as well as a printed cover).

Then Ron would have had to cancel.

If it wasn't a WL book, then there may be more than one in the system. And he just went to the end of the FIFO line.

His book did not meet the RCs as written.   Perfectly reasonable to turn it down.

Date Posted: 4/21/2008 5:41 PM ET
Member Since: 1/23/2006
Posts: 353
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"If he had accepted the request. And sent a PM.  And the requestor had not responded, or had responded they disagreed (and thought it had a DJ as well as a printed cover).

Then Ron would have had to cancel."

Whatever for?

If the requester wanted to argue to R & R that they were owed a non-existent dustjacket, let them! Do you really think they'd get very far with that argument?

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