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Topic: I'm Torn On What To Do - Unpostable Situation update w/pix!

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Subject: I'm Torn On What To Do - Unpostable Situation update w/pix!
Date Posted: 12/14/2009 5:05 PM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2009
Posts: 5,696
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I received a book today, and the person unexpectedly included the second book in the series - which was incredibly nice and generous.

The problem is - the actual book I ordered is unpostable.  It's actually bad enough that it's almost unreadable.  It's water damaged, stained and the spine is cleaved and pages are falling out.  The second book is in nearly like new condition.

One of the things that is so irritating is that this was the last copy in the system and all versions of the book are wish listed.  I know I should mark it RWAP (I won't ask for my credit back, though), but I'm having a little trouble writing the note.

Thanks so much for mailing "The Snow Queen" so quickly and for including the second book - that was so nice and generous of you.  Unfortunately, while "The Summer Queen" is in beautiful condition, the book I actually ordered is not postable - it is water damaged and the spine is split in several places with pages falling out - so I think I will have to order another copy. :(  I don't want my credit back, I just wanted to  [okay, this is where I'm having trouble not sounding like a priggish scold] let you know about the condition, as sending books that don't meet PBS guidelines isn't allowed. 

Thanks again and have a lovely holiday,

C.

Argh, I hate this.  It sounds so passive aggressive to me.



Last Edited on: 12/17/09 6:59 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 12/14/2009 5:17 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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Have you marked it received yet? If not, why not PM her and ask her about the second book? She may have meant to message you about her mistake and to let you know that she'd included a postable as a compensation. If that's the case, since you aren't planning to request a credit back, you can mark RWAP and "Problem resolved" (Let her know in advance that you will do so.)

Date Posted: 12/14/2009 5:23 PM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2009
Posts: 5,696
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I haven't marked it yet, but she included a little note that said "I thought you might want the companion volume but it is not as good as The Snow Queen."

So, I'm not sure.  She's not a new member.

Date Posted: 12/14/2009 6:31 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,662
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I think she knew the first was unpostable so she sent you the second as compensation.

Would have been a nicer gesture if she asked first. What if you already had the 2nd book?

I had a similiar situation (I ordered a 5-for-2 deal in the BB, and when the books came, only 2 were postable, and they weren't the ones I ordered, but the sender had included a nice note and a homemade bookmark and a sixth book, too). So ... I just let it go.

I know how you feel, I was torn too, because on the one hand, you certainly don't want to encourage people to think its OK to do this, but on the other hand, they already have sort of made up for it (not really, since they didn't send you what you asked for ... but its better than getting an unpostable book in the mail and then a nasty PM response later)..... BUT you are dealing with a person who has already made at least some small attempt to right the wrong they have done you ....

If it were me, I might just mark the book received, and send a nice PM, saying something like:

Thank you for the second book. I was disappointed when I looked at the book I ordered, because it is unpostable.  I have a feeling you may have included the second book to make up for the condition of the first one.

I really appreciate your intention (if that was in fact your intention), as I do not yet own the second book, but I would probably feel much differently if I already had Book #2. In the future, it might be a better idea to just offer a book like Book #1 to someone who orders Book #2 off your shelf, that way, you could send the book to someone who might appreciate it without running the risk of being marked RWAP.

 

And, by the way ... The Summer Queen and the The Snow Queen are 2 of my very most favorite books, and one of the things I did when I joined PBS was trade out my paperback copies for some beautiful hardcover copies (I still reread them occasionally).

Date Posted: 12/14/2009 6:55 PM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,597
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I would RWAP it, ask for your credit back and thank her for the second book. I agree that it was probably included as a pre-emptive strike so you would not mark it RWAP, but it is rather gutsy without notifying you--as others said, what if you already had that one and didn't need it??

Cheryl

Date Posted: 12/14/2009 8:37 PM ET
Member Since: 5/6/2009
Posts: 1,938
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I don't understand why some people insist on posting unpostables to begin with.  It really irritates me when I am offerred a wishlist book only to recieve a PM telling me that it is has some unpostable condition.  It is against the PBS rules, don't post it.  And she didn't even tell you beforehand, which is even worse.  At the very least she needs to be warned that the next person she tries that with may not be as nice about it.

Date Posted: 12/15/2009 1:24 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,167
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The sender has put you in a difficult position.  If you mark the book received, you must reorder if you want a better copy.  The only way to get back your place in FIFO line, is to mark the book RWAP or not mark it received (the first applies, the second would be incorrect).  At this time, there's no best way to compensate for senders error.

Date Posted: 12/15/2009 1:29 PM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2009
Posts: 5,696
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I decided to RWAP using language from both my note and Sara's suggestion.

I think if there had been something really minorly wrong with the book, I would have let it go, but this book had no business being posted at all.  I mean, it's totally inexcusable.

ETA - Sara - I'm very excited to read it!  I'm using The Snow Queen for one of my challenges.



Last Edited on: 12/15/09 1:30 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Amy
Date Posted: 12/15/2009 6:34 PM ET
Member Since: 3/11/2008
Posts: 1,716
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The Snow Queen and The Summer Queen are fantastic books, a great series. I love Joan Vinge.

If you get a chance, try her other books in that series: World's End and Tangled Up in Blue.

Date Posted: 12/15/2009 7:07 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,662
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I didn't want to hijack the thread but, since its already done .... :)

don't forget Vernor Vinge! A Fire Upon the Deep and A Deepness in the Sky

Basically you can't go wrong with any book by a Vinge!

Date Posted: 12/17/2009 6:42 PM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2009
Posts: 5,696
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Well, I received the following message from the sender.  For the record, I didn't say anything about smells, so I'm not sure what she's referring to.

I did not intend to send a book that was water damaged. I inspected the book prior to shipment and it was not what I would call water damaged. I sent the second book because I wanted to get rid of it and I thought you might be interested in reading it. I am sorry you were expecting a book in brand new condition but that was not the case. This book was in the same condition as when I got it at a used book store. It does not smell like cigarette smoke nor does it smell musty which is usual with a water damamged book. I will give you your credit back as a good faith gesture since your expectations and definitions of "good condition" radically differ from my definition.

Here are some photos of the book she sent.  She returned the credit (which I didn't ask her to do), so I'm just going to leave it alone, but, I mean - Look at the photos!  She thinks this is an okay book to send!  It's total madness!  /vent

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23204221@N08/4193199761/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23204221@N08/4193198411/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23204221@N08/4193955032/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23204221@N08/4193953804/in/photostream/

Date Posted: 12/17/2009 7:12 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Well, that book is unpostable on at least 3 counts!  Water damage, pages falling out, spine problems.  I would have no problem marking that book RWAP.

Ruth

Date Posted: 12/17/2009 7:38 PM ET
Member Since: 2/21/2009
Posts: 2,925
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I'm glad you got your credit back. If not water...I don't want to know what it was! Perhaps vodka...that probably would prevent mold & mildew problems. :-)

Amy
Date Posted: 12/20/2009 7:37 PM ET
Member Since: 3/11/2008
Posts: 1,716
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This is what burns me up. When a person sends a damaged and non-postable book knowingly and then tries to act like you are trying looking fr a brand new book or something when you mark the book as RWAP. The nerve!

Date Posted: 12/20/2009 9:24 PM ET
Member Since: 4/6/2007
Posts: 1,388
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Last Edited on: 6/5/11 1:26 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 12/21/2009 2:10 AM ET
Member Since: 1/23/2009
Posts: 3,041
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I would have been furious to receive a book in that condition! I'm so glad you marked the book RWAP and that she refunded the credit, even though you didn't ask it of her. So on top of being cleaved and water damaged, it's also stained? I just don't think there is any way she didn't know it was not postable!

Date Posted: 12/21/2009 7:55 AM ET
Member Since: 12/8/2009
Posts: 27
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FWIW, i have seen some older books displaying many of these issues without ever having been exposed to water...

the second pic IS liquid exposure though. setting it against a window on a cold winter day could cause similar looking damage.

 

as for the rest, many older paperbacks use a glue in the binding that gets brittle with age. especially with exposure to high temps, or humidity.. the paper has a patina of age to me, whats the Copyright date? if i had to guess, id sat it was placed on a windowsill for some time, perhaps many months at some point in its life.

 

all that said, i would NOT have posted that book. its a good canidate for digitization though ;-)..

 

[quote]

Here are some photos of the book she sent.  She returned the credit (which I didn't ask her to do), so I'm just going to leave it alone, but, I mean - Look at the photos!  She thinks this is an okay book to send!  It's total madness!  /vent

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23204221@N08/4193199761/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23204221@N08/4193198411/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23204221@N08/4193955032/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23204221@N08/4193953804/in/photostream/[/quote]

Date Posted: 12/21/2009 8:52 AM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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I will give you your credit back as a good faith gesture since your expectations and definitions of "good condition" radically differ from my definition.

Well, if she continues to send books that meet her definition of "good condition", she's not going to last much longer:P

Date Posted: 12/21/2009 12:35 PM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2009
Posts: 5,696
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Michael - all of that could very well be true, but the causes hardly matter.  It was still unpostable for about three different reasons regardless of one's personal feelings about this book. 

I replied:

Thank you for returning my credit, but I just wanted to make clear that I have no problem at all with used books. I would just like books that are postable according to site guidelines. They specify:

No damage at all from water or other liquid

Binding - Must be intact, with no separation on the inside or outside of the book

No loose or missing text pages

I returned your credit to you, as you did send the second book. I might make a suggestion that you revisit the posting guidelines, as your definition of "good condition" seems to differ greatly from that specified in the PBS help documents.

She answered:

I have misunderstood what is considered "water damaged" apparently. As I understand ANY water damamge is unacceptable. Therefore I will be more careful in the future. I donated your credit and an additional credit to the Books for Schools program since I committed a grievious error by posting a book that was unacceptable.

So, hooray for the learning curve!

 

Date Posted: 12/21/2009 1:08 PM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,597
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It's nice to see someone 1) admit their mistake and 2) take responsibility for it and even better 3) make it right!! Kudos to that member!

Cheryl