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Topic: Two Glitches in Two Days

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Subject: Two Glitches in Two Days
Date Posted: 3/23/2008 2:14 AM ET
Member Since: 8/28/2007
Posts: 595
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I have never actually seen a glitch here before, personally, and then I experienced two in as many days!

The first one, I ordered a book from someone, then I added three more from their shelf.  A couple days later, three of the books get canceled due to "no reply from sender after alloted time."  The fourth one is still pending.  So the person sends me a message, "Was just curious as to why you canceled this transaction?"  They were referring to the fourth book that was still pending.  I explained to them what had happened on my end.  We never could figure it out.  They said that they had accepted and printed out the labels and were about to send them out when they were canceled.  We finally agreed to a personal arrangement for the books instead of waiting for the glitch to get fixed.  I suppose I should report it to R&R.  I finally cancelled the forth book myself because it was STILL pending, 3 days later.

The second glitch happened today.  I posted 5 books yesterday, all of which were on wish lists.  So I'm waiting the 48 hours for the people to say yeah they want them.  Tonight I log in, and three of them have been canceled (a trilogy going to one person).  One of these has been requested by a second person.  The other two (part of another trilogy) just disappeared from my transaction archive with no cancel.  One of them has been requested by another person.  I am a bit disappointed at the cancellations, but I'm also concerned that the second set doesn't even show up on my transaction archive as canceled.  I thought all transactions showed up there.

So I am wondering if there is some sort of problem with the system for cancellations.  The first batch, the system cancelled it for some unknown reason,and it's lucky the person hadn't already mailed them.  The second batch, people canceled them, but some of them don't show up as canceled.  What is up with this?  And has anyone else seen this sort of glitch before?  Maybe there is some sort of explanation that I'm not seeing.  I have never had any problems with the site before, ever.

 

 

 

Date Posted: 3/23/2008 2:53 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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If you post a WL book and the person it's offered to doesn't accept the WL book or it times out, then it won't show up on your transaction archive.  It'll pass the book on to the next person in line or put the book on your shelf it there's no one else on WL.  So it sounds like the same person was in the top spot for the 3 books and then either didn't log in to accept or declined them. Then one book went to another WL and 2 went on your shelf and one of those was requested right away by a 3rd person.  I don't think this was a glitch. 

On the 1st one: maybe the person missed the mail by date? The system will automatically cancel a request if the book isn't marked mailed on time.  It'll also request the books from someone else so I'd make sure you don't have pending requests for those books off someone elses shelves.  If you do than you need to cancel them.   

Date Posted: 3/23/2008 3:00 AM ET
Member Since: 8/28/2007
Posts: 595
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So, for the ones that are showing up in the transaction archive, does that mean the first person did accept them, but then later canceled?  That would make sense.  Since I saw that, I assumed they would all show up in the archive.  Probably not a glitch, as you said.

In the second case, it's possible they missed the mail-by date, except that the one book was still listed as pending, and the person said they had accepted all four and had printed for all of them, too.  I had to cancel the one book still pending, and the other person was saying they all 4 seemed normal right up until they were canceled.  That's why they sent me the puzzled email.

Thanks for your reply!

 

 

Date Posted: 3/23/2008 3:19 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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Yes if they accept and then cancel, it'll show up in your archive with a red X.  But if it's a WL book or a book request from you that either times out or gets declined before acceptance, it doesn't show  in the archive. 

Not sure what to tell you about the other problem.  A book requestor is not supposed to be able to cancel a transaction after the address has been accessed.  Because it could already be in the mail and the sender just hasn't marked it mailed yet.   I would contact PBS on that one and see what happened.  Maybe they accidentally hit the 2day mail option on the first 3 books and hit the 5day mail option on the last one. Then missed the date to mark them mailed.  That would cancel the 1st 3 w/that person but leave the 4th one open.  Hard to say.  I would contact PBS.  If I were the other person, I would definately contact PBS and ask why a request was cancelled when they had already printed the address.  That should happen.  Unless they only printed the address on the 4th book and missed the mail by date on the other 3. -Now I'm just confusing myself with all the what-ifs. 

The only glitch I've ever had was posting a WL book to someone's WL and having it go to someone else.  One time, when I posted a WL book it posted it twice and offered it to 2 diferent people.  You're not supposed to be able to have the same book posted twice.  If you have 2 copies of a book with the same ISBN you can't post the 2nd until the 1st one is marked mailed. I had to cancel the 2nd request. 

Date Posted: 3/23/2008 10:37 AM ET
Member Since: 8/30/2005
Posts: 827
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Stephen, you would be able to tell that the sender didn't mark those 4 books mailed--just click Request Details on one of the requests in your TA and you will see no "mailed" date/time.  He or she missed the deadline to do this, and the transactions canceled. 

The sender should know that too--emails titled MARK MAILED would have been sent to remind him or her to do this so the transactions didn't cancel.  I got one of those emails when I mailed a book and forgot to mark it mailed for a couple of days.  The email reminder came, I read it (that always helps!), and marked the book mailed.  The email was really clear.  This sender can look in his or her club communications to see copies of those emails if somehow he or she missed them or deleted them without reading them. 

It seems clear that the sender of the four books didn't mark the books mailed.   And if one of those books had another copy in the system, your request would have been passed to a new sender when the first sender didn't mark mailed.  That would explain why you had an active request for one of the books that you could cancel yourself (you could not have cancelled if the sender had printed your address).

No mystery or glitch there.

Dunno about the amazing vanishing WL book in the second issue you mention..if it was Wish Listed, it would have been offered to the wisher, and if that person didn't accept, the book would be back on your bookshelf if that was the only wishing person.   Did it not go back onto your bookshelf?   And it is not cancelled in your TA?  I dunno...



Last Edited on: 3/23/08 10:41 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/23/2008 12:32 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2007
Posts: 11,418
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When you ordered more books from the first member, did  you order them directly from their bookshelf or from the book's description page?  If you click on the title and go to the book's description page and click "order" from there, then it goes to the FIFO system, not to the person whose bookshelf you were browsing.

I know I made that mistake once.

Date Posted: 3/23/2008 1:12 PM ET
Member Since: 8/28/2007
Posts: 595
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In my transaction archive, all four books say, "no reply from sender after allotted time, and only list the one sender.  After I cancelled the 4th book, there's no second sender listed.  I don't think it ever went to a second sender at all.  It just sat there and nothing ever happened.  I usually watch my transactions pretty closely and would have noticed anyway, I think.  I checked the name on the sender and it never changed.  The openness of communications from the person indicate to me that they are just as confused as me as to what happened.  I don't think they missed the deadline, I'm not sure.  Can you guys see my transaction archive?  Look there and see if it looks like anything other than canceled for no reply from the one person.  Maybe I'm missing something.  Anyway, the sender submitted the issue as a bug, and it's being looked into.  I was just concerned that maybe there was a problem that needs addressing with the system.  I appreciate all the suggestions from you guys!  Everyone here is always so helpful!

The first issue, with the wish list books, I believe has been explained to where it makes enough sense for my satisfaction.  I always learn something new about how the system works when I come here.  :)

 

"When you ordered more books from the first member, did  you order them directly from their bookshelf or from the book's description page?  If you click on the title and go to the book's description page and click "order" from there, then it goes to the FIFO system, not to the person whose bookshelf you were browsing.

I know I made that mistake once."

I ordered them directly from the bookshelf.  They all had the same sender name on them, and still do in the transaction archive as well.  I did make that mistake once before, as well.  :)

 

"Stephen, you would be able to tell that the sender didn't mark those 4 books mailed--just click Request Details on one of the requests in your TA and you will see no "mailed" date/time.  He or she missed the deadline to do this, and the transactions canceled. "

You're right, there is no "mailed by" date, but all of the books canceled at the same exact time, according to that archive, yet one of them was still pending for two days after that, until I canceled it.  And there's no second sender listed at all.   I was thinking maybe they missed the date on three of them, and never replied at all to the 4th one.  How long does it sit there waiting for acceptance?  I can't remember now, but I'm pretty sure they were all accepted and printed.  Then three were canceled and the one sat there until I canceled it.  I do recall that the one that didn't cancel is the orginal book I requested from the book screen.  The others I added from their bookshelf.  But there's still no second sender listed in the archive, that it could have gone to.  Seems like they would have all canceled, and that's it.

The more I think about it, the more curious I am, lol.

 

 



Last Edited on: 3/23/08 1:23 PM ET - Total times edited: 3
Date Posted: 3/23/2008 3:15 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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No we can't access your transaction history.  Have you tried reordering the books from the same person?

Date Posted: 3/23/2008 3:25 PM ET
Member Since: 8/30/2005
Posts: 827
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The second sender won't be on the same transaction as the first sender.  Each request goes into a different transaction.  So there will be one cancelled request with sender A's name on it, and one cancelled request with sender B's name on it.

If what you report about what happened with these requests is accurate, Stephen, then the following should work:

  • Sort your TA by Books I've Requested - All - Date requested - Descending
  • Then click Re Sort and then scroll down to see the transactions listed
  • You should see Book 4 (the one that persisted on your account page as an active request) above (bcs that one has a more recent request date/time) and then Books 1, 2, 3, 4 below (there may be others interspersed in there, I don't know if you have requested other books in between these).
  • The uppermost cancelled request for Book 4 will have "cancelled by requestor" pop up from the X icon on the left if you mouse over it,  and on the right the name of the sender will NOT be the same as the sender for Books 1, 2, 3, 4 farther down the list.   If you click Request Details on the right of this "sender B" book 4 request, you will see that this second sender never printed. He or she may have accepted, but s/he could not have printed, or you couldn't have cancelled.
  • The cancelled requests for Books 1, 2, 3, 4 below (the ones that all have the first sender's name on them) will have "cancelled for no response in time allotted" come up from the X icon on the left if you put your cursor over it.  If you click Request Details on the right of any/all of these, you will see that all were never marked mailed, all were cancelled around 3 AM.  3 AM is the time the system does automatic actions--it's the time I get my daily digest emails, for example.  So those cancellations mean the system cancelled Books 1, 2, 3, 4 bcs he or she never marked them mailed.

And if you know the title of Book 4 (the one for which the request stayed on your account page after the others cancelled), you can also

  • sort your TA by Requested by Me - All - Title - Descending (or ascending, whichever you like) and
  • scroll/page down to find transactions with Book 4's title on them. 
  • There should be two: one cancelled bcs of no response in allotted time with Sender A's name on the right (the sender from whom you requested the 4 books), and one cancelled by requestor, with sender B's name on the right.

You can also look in YOUR club communications, which is a link at the top of the main account page, and see the emails telling you that Book 1, 2, 3 were cancelled bcs the sender did not respond.   You won't see an email about book 4, because that request was passed along to a new sender, and then you cancelled.  When you cancel, you don't  get an email telling you that you cancelled.


Curious to know if you are able to find the second cancelled request for book 4 in your TA, and if you find the cancellation emails in your club communications.  Pretty sure that this should all be as I am describing....?

 

Date Posted: 3/24/2008 2:22 AM ET
Member Since: 8/28/2007
Posts: 595
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Ok , when I sorted my list like you said, I did see where the 4th book request was passed on to another person.  I could have sworn that wasn't on there before!  I guess in this case I am blind.

So why did it get passed on to another person when it wasn't a wish list book?  I was browsing, and ordered it upon seeing it in the club listings.  The other three I then added off his bookshelf.  Ok, I think I understand:  When I order a book, if the transaction doesn't go through with the first person, the system will keep trying to match my request with someone else.  I get it!  Forgive me for thinking out loud.  I'm really not a dumb person!

Slowly my questions are getting answered, and I begin to wonder if this person was just trying to get out of missing out on sending these books by acting like they didn't know why they were canceled.  So they basically missed the deadline to mail and played dumb to get me to let them send the books anyway.  If I were an evil person I wouldn't gift the credits upon receiving them.  But I will, when and if I get them.  They were supposed to be mailed today.  Next time I won't agree to such an arrangement, and will trade only within the system.  The person supposedly reported the "glitch" to R&R, so if they really are telling the truth, then it will still get looked at.

Thanks again to everyone for helping me understand this "glitch" and how it worked.  :)  I've never seen a more helpful group of people!

Date Posted: 3/24/2008 8:39 AM ET
Member Since: 8/30/2005
Posts: 827
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Stephen, nobody understands how the system works right away.  I remember for a while after I joined, I just couldn't figure out where the books were...like how to find them to order them.   It used to be a little harder to search--no search space at the top of the screen, no top navigation menu, but still.  I remember that it takes some getting used to.

I don't think the sender was being slimy.  Probably he or she doesn't read PBS emails (or they go to spam) or  something.  It's more likely laziness/inattention than dishonesty.   Anyway, if you get the books (and you won't end up with 2 copies of Book 4) it's all good, right?

Help Center does explain most things, but the search there can be pretty basic.  You can browse through the topics, of course--I read every one of what passed for FAQs when I joined, way before there was a Help Center, but a lot of stuff has been added to the site since then.  Sometimes it is just more pleasant/human to ask someone who knows.   It's good there's this Questions forum.   I never asked questions in it when I joined, but I read other people's and learned a lot.

Oh, and you are right about how the system automatically passes along requests.  It's in here:

You're totally not dumb or evil LOL.  We have all seen both dumb and evil in these forums, am I right folks?  :)  Dumb can stay around a loonnng time (it's a pretty tolerant place), but evil generally disappears.  It is a nice bunch of ppl in my experience.

 

 

Date Posted: 3/24/2008 10:07 AM ET
Member Since: 10/24/2007
Posts: 1,313
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There ARE glitches on PBS.  People are quick to "explain away" the problems, but there may really be one.  I have found a couple and had them fixed by sending feedback.  You need to send feedback with specifics, including the title(s) of the books in question, time the stuff happened, etc.  I'm not saying your issues are glitches, but don't hesitate to send feedback.  I thought I was going crazy on a couple of things, but I got nice messages back letting me know that the glitches were found and fixed.  Ya never know!

Subject: Update
Date Posted: 4/4/2008 2:25 AM ET
Member Since: 8/28/2007
Posts: 595
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Thanks again for the replies.  The sender supposedly sent in a report of what happened.  I didn't ask if they got a reply yet or not.  I received the books like-new condition (!) along with a nice message from the sender, and I gifted the credits in return.  It all worked out for us.  :)