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Topic: Is this unpostable?

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Subject: Is this unpostable?
Date Posted: 9/7/2008 4:55 PM ET
Member Since: 6/15/2008
Posts: 340
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I picked upa WL book at a UBS.  I didn't realize at the time but 2/3 of the front endsheet have been ripped out.  It doesn't look like there was any printing on it and the book is totally readable and has a dust jacket.  Does the ripped out endsheet make this book unpostable?

Date Posted: 9/7/2008 5:03 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2007
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The flyleaf page?

The help files say no loose or missing text pages. Since the flyleaf page is not a text page I think you are good.

Date Posted: 9/7/2008 5:10 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,200
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I wouldn't post it. In the Pages section of conditions in the Help Center the first line says No torn pages. It doesn't distinguish text pages or not in the torn page section.  There would be a good chance of it being marked RWP. 

Date Posted: 9/7/2008 5:11 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2007
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So then remove it the rest of the way and you'll be fine.

Date Posted: 9/7/2008 5:33 PM ET
Member Since: 3/4/2007
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How does ripping out the page make it better?  The rules are no torn pages, period.  There's no allowance for tearing pages out to make the book look more presentable.  I realize that this is a used book site, but it's a site with rules and bending them to suit your purpose defeats the integrity of the system.  If I received a book with a page torn out, any page, you can bet I'd mark it RWAP.  

Date Posted: 9/7/2008 5:39 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2007
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Missing no text pages are allowed. I was being facetious.

Date Posted: 9/7/2008 6:47 PM ET
Member Since: 8/13/2008
Posts: 13,147
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I agree with Sandy. That book would be marked RWAP. Missing pages is not OK in my book. HAHA, I made a funny....:P

Date Posted: 9/7/2008 6:49 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2007
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Again, I want to state that my post was an attempt at a joke. HOWEVER, a missing flyleaf page is acceptable under PBS guidelines. I do find it amusing that it can be missing or loose just as long as it isn't ripped.

Date Posted: 9/7/2008 7:25 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
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The problem Tracy, is that the person receiving the book will not know that it was a blank page, they will just see a ripped out page. I am not saying that it shouldn't be ok to have a blank page missing. But, given the rules state no torn pages (and I think torn out falls under torn), then the sender stands a very good chance of getting the book marked RWP and making the receiver very mad if they refuse to give back the credit.  I understand that the interpretation of the missing pages may include the flyleaf, but no where in the rules is that stated so the sender will have nothing other than a forum opinion to support their stance where the receiver has Help Docs that state their position.

Date Posted: 9/7/2008 7:28 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2007
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The rules clearly state that only missing text pages are unallowed. I agree with what you are saying. I am simply pointing out a hole in the rules.

Date Posted: 9/7/2008 7:51 PM ET
Member Since: 8/12/2005
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I also was going to say since it wasn't a text page..then it would be ok..IMO.



Last Edited on: 9/7/08 7:52 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/7/2008 8:36 PM ET
Member Since: 6/15/2008
Posts: 340
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So basically, I could carefully remove what is left of the flyleaf page and it would be good enough to post?

Date Posted: 9/7/2008 8:53 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,200
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The rules clearly state that only missing text pages are unallowed

Really? I cannot find that wording anywhere. What I think you mean is it only clearly states that text pages cannot be missing. It doesn't address the others at all in the missing page statement in book conditions. That is my whole point. The no torn pages is word for word from the help where the "its ok to be missing if it is not a text page" is by assumption because of its lack of inclusion in another rule, not by any clear statement.

When I post a book, it has to pass all of the items listed in the Pages section of the help; passing one doesn't get it out of having to pass the other bullets. Are are any text pages loose or missing? NO Are any pages torn or gnawed? YES, torn. Any questions answered yes, I don't post the book.

Date Posted: 9/7/2008 9:30 PM ET
Member Since: 8/27/2007
Posts: 3,326
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I have gotten used books from sources other than PBS that have the fly-leaf or another blank page from the front removed. I usually assume it was removed because of an inscription or other identifying writing.  If the page is removed neatly, odds are very few people would even notice it was missing.  I have posted several of these books to PBS. In each case, I accepted the request and sent a PM to the requestor explaining that I believed a page had been removed and did they still want it. In every case the requestor said to go ahead and send the book.

I'm not suggesting that people go out and violate every rule that doesn't suit them, but common sense says that a missing blank page does not detract from the readability of the book. Same goes for that "advertising" page in the center of some books, or the ordering page often found  at the end of paperbacks.  If there is no title, publishing information, or text on the page, what harm is there in passing it along to someone who wants it?

Every day you can read in the forums where people are receiving water stained books, books in pieces, books with missing covers and other clear violations of PBS rules. I'd much rather have a book with a missing flyleaf than one with roller coaster pages.

Date Posted: 9/8/2008 7:03 AM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2007
Posts: 881
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Here is the bit about it from the help files:

Pages:

  • No torn or chewed/gnawed pages
    • yes, that does say "chewed/gnawed".  That means no pet-chewed (or human-chewed) books.
  • No loose or missing text pages
  • Cover not water damaged (there may be no water damage to any part of the book)
  • No writing or highlighting or underlining on text pages

If they were concerned about the flyleaf that second line would simply say "no loose or missing pages". The fact that they used the word text tells me that they are trying to be very specific.

I want to state again that it is not my believe that folks should rip out flyleaf pages but really, it's a blank piece of paper we are bickering about.

Date Posted: 9/8/2008 7:03 PM ET
Member Since: 6/15/2008
Posts: 340
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I guess when I do decide to list it, I will make sure to let the requester know about the flyleaf page issue.

Sandra (dru) -
Date Posted: 9/8/2008 8:51 PM ET
Member Since: 1/20/2006
Posts: 508
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If you check the Help Center under book guidelines and look at "good condition" it says no torn, missing,  loose or chewed pages.

Date Posted: 9/9/2008 6:59 AM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2007
Posts: 881
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I am directly quoting the help page via copy and paste in my post. It seems there is conflicting info.

Date Posted: 9/9/2008 2:24 PM ET
Member Since: 6/15/2008
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Y'all have me so scared now that I'm not sure what to do with this book!  LOL!

Date Posted: 9/9/2008 2:37 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2007
Posts: 881
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I'm sorry Daphne. Perhaps it would be best for you to offer it as a free unpostable in your forum signature. Basically this means you'll send it to the first person to PM you about it and then places an order from your shelf.

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 9/9/2008 2:41 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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Personally, I'd post it and PM requester before sending it out.  But that's just me.  It seems the Help Center, as quoted above by Tonksy, clarifies the issue on the page where they specifically say no torn text pages.

Date Posted: 9/9/2008 2:57 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2007
Posts: 881
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What is the book anyway?

Date Posted: 9/9/2008 5:06 PM ET
Member Since: 6/15/2008
Posts: 340
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The book is The Road by Cormac Mc Carthy.  I may read it first then post it. 

Date Posted: 9/9/2008 6:59 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2007
Posts: 881
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I am sure many folks would snatch that up missing flyleaf or not!

Date Posted: 9/9/2008 7:05 PM ET
Member Since: 8/12/2005
Posts: 401
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Heeeeeey...the book sounds like something I would like..if you want to read it first and pass it along, I'll gladly give you a credit for it!!!!!  I don't care about a non-missing text page!  I have many book lovers in my circle of friends and family...so even if it wasn't re-posted, I know of at least 6 other ppl. who would enjoy it.

 

A searing, post-apocalyptic novel destined to become Cormac McCarthy's masterpiece.

A father and his son walk alone through burned America. Nothing moves in the ravaged landscape save the ash on the wind. It is cold enough to crack stones, and when the snow falls it is gray. The sky is dark. Their destination is the coast, although they don't know what, if anything, awaits them there. They have nothing; just a pistol to defend themselves against the lawless bands that stalk the road, the clothes they are wearing, a cart of scavenged food--and each other.

The Road is the profoundly moving story of a journey. It boldly imagines a future in which no hope remains, but in which the father and his son, "each the other's world entire," are sustained by love. Awesome in the totality of its vision, it is an unflinching meditation on the worst and the best that we are capable of: ultimate destructiveness, desperate tenacity, and the tenderness that keeps two people alive in the face of total devastation.