Discussion Forums - Historical Fiction

Topic: Veil Of Lies Discussion Chapter 21- 29

Club rule - Please, if you cannot be courteous and respectful, do not post in this forum.
  Unlock Forum posting with Annual Membership.
Subject: Veil Of Lies Discussion Chapter 21- 29
Date Posted: 5/31/2011 11:22 PM ET
Member Since: 3/14/2009
Posts: 9,174
Back To Top
Date Posted: 6/4/2011 7:10 PM ET
Member Since: 5/27/2005
Posts: 2,390
Back To Top

 

So. I ignored everything else that needed to be done this morning & finished Veil of Lies. I absolutely enjoyed the book enough to continue the series & I think the last 50 pages or so were the best. Not necessarily because we were wrapping up all the loose threads, but because there were some moments of interspection and analysis that really added some needed depth to the story.

Assuming that those of us who are on this thread have already finished the book (or nearly), below are some bullet points that (for me) made this book 'worth my time' and will prompt me to read more of Crispin Guest's adventures.

 

*****************  POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT *******************

 

In no particular order ...

 

  • Love the fight scene - it gave real depth to Crispin's character in terms of his past - thrilling to the fight again, holding a weapon in his hands, fighting back to back with the Sheriff - all gave substance to a character that heretofore seemed just a bit whiny & "woe is me" (~~don't throw things - this was just my initial opinion!~~) 
  • Similarly, the scene in the jail cell when Crispin struggled with what to do with the Mandollyn (sp?).
  • Thought it was a great scene wherein Phillippa came back & gave Crispin the opportunity to be the man he was and could be; rather than the man he thought he used to be. And that Crispin understood that ... that the culture, lifestyle and beliefs of his former life was him, even though his fortunes had changed so drastically, even though he may be forever giving up the chance for happiness.
  • Lastly, love that he gave up the chance for 800 pounds which could have completely reversed his fortunes!

 

Kelly P

 

Date Posted: 6/4/2011 7:37 PM ET
Member Since: 3/14/2009
Posts: 9,174
Back To Top

Kelly,  I agree with you on nearly everything.  I think the key to Crispin is that even though he has lost everything,  He has regained his honor and he won't lose it or sell it ever again.



Last Edited on: 6/4/11 7:37 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/4/2011 9:07 PM ET
Member Since: 5/19/2007
Posts: 4,709
Back To Top

I finished it too this evening...very satisfying ending!  I'm curious about his lack of sword.  I know it was taken away during his treason time.  Was that symbolic?  Does he not have a sword now because he simply can't afford one?  Or is it to do with being a knight?  After all the medieval novels I've read, you would think I'd know more about swords!  Another question for Jeri, I think.  

Kelly, you are so right on your bullet points.  I'm hoping Crispin is even more fleshed out in the next book..which I just might start tonight! wink

Date Posted: 6/5/2011 9:24 AM ET
Member Since: 5/27/2005
Posts: 2,390
Back To Top

Vicky,

I wondered about the same thing re: the sword - and I finally assumed that it was a privilege reserved to knights & other members of the upper classes. That is certainly a question for Jeri ... 

 

Date Posted: 6/5/2011 9:28 AM ET
Member Since: 3/14/2009
Posts: 9,174
Back To Top

Vicky,  I think that to carry a sword was a privilege for those of a certain status.  I could be wrong.

 

Edit.   Someday I will be able to spell short sentences without a silly error.

 

 



Last Edited on: 6/5/11 9:30 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/8/2011 12:30 PM ET
Member Since: 3/14/2009
Posts: 9,174
Back To Top

Here are the discussion Guide Questions.  Why don't you copy and paste then and answer them,  For those of you who didn't do the read along but read the books before this might jog your memory.  Please join in.

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION

1. How do you think the London setting informs the story?

2. There were many small clues dotting the plot. When you look back over the story, what were the significant clues that you missed the first time? And what did you think of the twists?

3. Class structure is an important aspect of Crispin’s character. How did it affect his relationships with Phillipa? With Jack? With Eleanor and Gilbert?

4. What would you like to know about Jack Tucker?

5. Is the sheriff’s motivation for violence justified?

6. Did the Mandyllon really have the power that was attributed to it?

7. Upon Crispin’s refusal, Phillipa quickly accepted Clarence’s offer. Why would she do that?

8. What is underlying Crispin and Lancaster’s strained relationship? What can be done to fix it?

9. Who were the characters that sparked the most interest?

10. Do you see London as a character? The Boar’s Tusk?

11. Were you disappointed that Bernarbo Visconti remained “offstage”?

12. Is the story enhanced or was it a distraction to have the underlying “hard-boiled” aspect to this historical mystery?

 

 



Last Edited on: 6/8/11 1:11 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/8/2011 1:05 PM ET
Member Since: 3/14/2009
Posts: 9,174
Back To Top

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION

1. How do you think the London setting informs the story?   For me I can't see this set anywhere else.  It is Crispin's city he loves it and it's people.  It is that sense of ownership that I believe has kept him there.  He could have gone to the continent and sold his sword.  He doesn't have any family ties that we know of that keeps him there.

2. There were many small clues dotting the plot. When you look back over the story, what were the significant clues that you missed the first time? And what did you think of the twists?  I think the main thing I missed was why Master Walcote had dismissed he's whole staff and become reclusive. and that other was who would have known about the outside passage.

3. Class structure is an important aspect of Crispin’s character. How did it affect his relationships with Phillipa? With Jack? With Eleanor and Gilbert?  As I said before I think it has held him back from healing growing, accepting his circumstances have not changed.

4. What would you like to know about Jack Tucker?   Who were his parents, was he loved?

5. Is the sheriff’s motivation for violence justified?  Hell no! He is a horrid bully I hate him!

6. Did the Mandyllon really have the power that was attributed to it?  I think that it did, the merchant and the sheriff both told the truth when they normally wouldn't so did Crispen for that matter.

7. Upon Crispin’s refusal, Phillipa quickly accepted Clarence’s offer. Why would she do that?  I think that having known poverty she wasn't anxious to return to slaving away.  That is if she could find honest work at all.  Women through the ages have married men for security.   Besides she sold herself for much less, and Clarence was obviously taken with her.

8. What is underlying Crispin and Lancaster’s strained relationship? What can be done to fix it?  That is a tough question,  Crispin's and the other conspirators where doing what they thought was best for England and that it benefited Lancaster was a huge plus.  The fact that it was dishonorable and treasonous, reflected badly on Lancaster, and on Crispin's training in Lancaster's household.  It seems that it can never be "fixed" not while Richard is alive.

9. Who were the characters that sparked the most interest?  Loved Jack,  Simon Wynchecombe, the sheriff  I wonder why he hates Crispin so much?

10. Do you see London as a character? The Boar’s Tusk?  I do.

11. Were you disappointed that Bernarbo Visconti remained “offstage”?  Not so much it added an air of menace.

12. Is the story enhanced or was it a distraction to have the underlying “hard-boiled” aspect to this historical mystery?  I have always liked a down and out even tortured protagonist.  London was a gritty place.  So I think it enhances it.



Last Edited on: 6/8/11 1:10 PM ET - Total times edited: 1