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Topic: Wavy Pages

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Subject: Wavy Pages
Date Posted: 5/31/2010 7:01 PM ET
Member Since: 3/6/2009
Posts: 127
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I have a book that I would love to post. There are about 5 pages that are kind of wavy, I don't believe it's water damage, just a bit wavy. I've tried to iron them out and it seemed to help a bit, but they still have a little wave to them. Is this postable or should I just forget it. I don't want to send it out only to receive a RWAP.

Thanks so much for your opinion on this.

Date Posted: 5/31/2010 7:06 PM ET
Member Since: 8/6/2006
Posts: 1,619
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A lot of newer paperbacks are printed on cheap paper that is wavy like that,  I've picked up brand new books in the store that had them.  As long as there's no staining from water/liquid then I'd post it.

Date Posted: 5/31/2010 7:07 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,400
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Look for changes in texture.  Books can have wavy pages due how they were held.  But water damage usually has a change in texture from one side of the page to the other.

Date Posted: 5/31/2010 7:15 PM ET
Member Since: 3/6/2009
Posts: 127
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This is a hardback book but seems kind of cheaply made. It's definitely not from being held, and it is definitely not stained either. It's like 4-5 pieces of the paper were made poorly (if that's the word for it). It's almost like it's been in a humid area but it's only effecting a few pages.

Date Posted: 5/31/2010 7:16 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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I have to agree with looking at the textures and the stains (or lack thereof).  Actually, I did receive a water damaged book that I looked at several times trying to figure it out.  There were no stains, and no wavy pages, and surprisingly no textural changes that were obvious.  "Obvious" is the key word here.  Finally, I held it up to the light so that I was looking at the page side on instead of straight on and saw what I couldn't see or feel before.  The book was difficult to "fan" the pages.  It was terribly stiff in different ways on the top from the bottom.  At some point the book had been exposed to water, but was dried in some way that the pages didn't swell and were dried so that they were very straight.  I couldn't feel the texture difference, but looking at it sideways, I could tell there was a change in the "grain" of the paper.  No stains.  It's a thick book, and since it's so stiff it will be hard to read since the pages are so stiff.  But it was dry and unstained, and no change of texture to the touch so I'd already marked it okay.  Too bad.  Very good drying job though.

Ruth

Date Posted: 5/31/2010 7:18 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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If it's only affecting a section of pages it could be that those pages were printed on even poorer grade paper than the others and humidity can affect them.  So they affect all the other pages in the book.

Ruth

Date Posted: 5/31/2010 7:26 PM ET
Member Since: 3/6/2009
Posts: 127
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Yes, Ruth. I think that is how I would explain it. Do you think it's postable or not? I'm thinking not. Too bad. It's a WL book.



Last Edited on: 5/31/10 7:27 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/31/2010 7:40 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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If there are no texture changes, no stains, and the pages are easy to fan through, I think it's postable.  That last thing I say because of my experience with this one book.  I know now it was probably water damaged, so if it's WL'd when I'm through - I'll just post in the BB for a credit and not put it in the FIFO.

Ruth

Date Posted: 5/31/2010 7:55 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2009
Posts: 6,852
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I agree with Ruth, if you are unsure it is postable and it is a WL book, I would offer it in the BB for a credit.

 I received some books from a friend who used paper clips to mark the pages...you can see the indent from the paper clips where they were left longer than the other clips.  At first look, it looks like water damage, but if you closely look at it, you can tell it is an outline of a paper clip.

Date Posted: 5/31/2010 9:41 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,727
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I think it's postable. I've seen quite a few of these cheaply made books. I've also received them on PBS and sent them out again. Unless I can see a change in the texture or a stain of some sort (I do look pretty carefully), I chalk it up to bad paper, which is postable.

Date Posted: 5/31/2010 10:01 PM ET
Member Since: 3/6/2009
Posts: 127
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Thanks everyone! I think I'll post in the BB. I appreciate the feedback!

Subject: wouldn't take the chance
Date Posted: 5/31/2010 11:39 PM ET
Member Since: 4/28/2009
Posts: 9,576
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 I'm betting someone will RWAP it if you post it even if there's no proof of water damage. Since wavy pages often result from water exposure, the

recipient is likely to  assume that. I wouldn't take the chance, especially with a WL book.

Date Posted: 5/31/2010 11:59 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,171
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Wavy pages are postable.  Liquid damage is not postable.  Considering more and more new books seem to have wavy pages, it's unfair to assume wavy pages = water damage.

Date Posted: 6/1/2010 11:13 AM ET
Member Since: 12/19/2007
Posts: 2,408
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Since there seem to be a lot more books being printed on really  cheap paper, the "wavy pages syndrome" is becoming more prevalent.  I have gotten into the habit of PMing requestors to inform them of the issue before I mail.  I haven't had one person refuse a book and I haven't had anyone mark a book RWAP.  By PMing first, I diffuse any possible problem with the wavy page issue and if the person does decide he/she doesn't want the book, I can cancel on this end allowing the requestor to move back to the front of the FIFO line.  Win/win!

Date Posted: 6/1/2010 12:29 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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Usually bad paper waviness is consistant throughout the book, not just a few pages. When it is just a few pages it is more likely to be due to moisture.

Offering it in the Bazaar is probably the best route since the receiver can know ahead of time and even if you don't think its water damage, without knowing its not, how do you argue against a RWAP if you get one?

Date Posted: 6/2/2010 2:08 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,727
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So, I was reading a highly wish listed book over my vacation (in Wash DC ... very very humid) (I live in southern CA, near the desert, so very, very dry) ... and I actually watched the book become wavy as I was holding it in my hand reading it. It soaked up the humidity like a sponge. This was over several hours.

I couldn't believe how fast it turned into a wavy page book. Like magic.

Anyway, I have every intention of posting it, as I know it wasn't water damaged, and in any case, I don't believe that humidity = water damage (unless you read your books in a sauna, which I don't) ... but my gosh, it went from a nice flat brand new book to a wavy page book while I was holding it! That's a first for me!

Date Posted: 6/2/2010 2:41 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,400
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And the humidity can make the book weight more.

Date Posted: 6/2/2010 5:33 PM ET
Member Since: 3/6/2009
Posts: 127
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Robin~ I did offer it in the BB for a credit and basically got reprimanded for it saying that it was inappropriate to ask for a credit for a "damaged" book. I was in the WL unpostable forum. Sooooo, I may just take it to my local UBS and see if I can get a credit there.

Date Posted: 6/2/2010 5:35 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,727
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Karen,

you are allowed to ask for a credit in the BB for unpostable books as long as you describe the damage. PBS has determined that this is perfectly OK.

If someone told you something different, they are mistaken.



Last Edited on: 6/2/10 5:36 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/2/2010 6:18 PM ET
Member Since: 3/6/2009
Posts: 127
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Thank you so much for clarifing that. I really appreciate that.

Date Posted: 6/2/2010 8:19 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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Sara is almost correct. You can ask for a credit in the Bazaar as long as the damage is explained, but there is a specific thread in the Book Bazaar ( the red sticky one at the top) that you cannot ask for credits in, it is only for offering unpostable books for free. If you posted asking for a credit in that one, you would get reprimanded.  The rules for that thread are in the first post in it.

There is a different post (I think started by sherryladen) that isn't a red sticky where you can offer unpostables for credits or you can start your own post.



Last Edited on: 6/2/10 8:19 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/4/2010 11:16 PM ET
Member Since: 3/6/2009
Posts: 127
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I did NOT post it in the "sticky one at the top"  I posted it in Sherryladen's post.

I think I'll just forget it and just let this one go. Feel free to P.M. me if your curious about the WL book, but I don't think I  want to deal with this kind of "grey" area of PBS.  A little too risky.

FYI~it's the second book in my signature.

Thanks so much for all your help!!!



Last Edited on: 6/4/10 11:18 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 6/4/2010 11:33 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2009
Posts: 6,852
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I saw your post and you were in the correct thread.  If you look at the post directly beneath your post they are asking for a credit and so are several other posts, so I am not sure who told you you couldn't request a credit, because they were mistaken or didn't understand the rules. 

Try posting your own thread.  You didn't do anything wrong. 

Date Posted: 6/5/2010 1:58 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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It is not a grey area at all and if you were in sherry's thread you were perfectly fine and you can also start your own thread.

I specifically asked the Team about this, I posted their answer here. You did nothing wrong and that person was wrong. Feel free to direct them a TG that can clear up the matter for them. If it was a TG, recommend that they go to the TG Lounge and ask or read the thread I've linked with the response from the Team.

>>>> now I am curious to know if that person when through the whole thread and PMed everyone because most of the posts in that thread ask for a credit. That should have been a clue it was ok. 



Last Edited on: 6/5/10 2:06 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/5/2010 11:59 PM ET
Member Since: 3/6/2009
Posts: 127
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Thanks everyone!!! I appreciate all the feedback here!!!!

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