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Topic: Any way to find out who requested a data edit?

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Subject: Any way to find out who requested a data edit?
Date Posted: 7/10/2008 11:39 AM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2008
Posts: 428
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Here's the situation.

Two days ago, I entered a new book into the system. The book had an ISBN, but it wasn't listed. The book was titled "Jams, Preserves & Pickles". I was in a hurry, so I only entered the basic details of the book - ISBN, Title, Authors, and Subject. I had planned to enter the rest of the details and a cover image later.

I never got the chance. Someone requested it within a few hours of it hitting the system. My next trip to the post office was Friday, so I put that was the date that I would send it. Everything was good so far.

Today, I noticed that the title has been changed to "The Cordon Bien Book of Jams, Preserves & Pickles". That's completely wrong. The words "Cordon Bien" do not appear anywhere on the book. I even looked it up on Amazon and saw that it had my original title.

Since the book was requested before the name change, I'm still going to send it. But, I wanted to find out who requested the edit so that we could work this out.

I did look up the authors on Amazon. They had another book called "The Cordon Bleu Book of Jams, Preserves & Pickles", but this isn't it. That book doesn't have an ISBN. Mine does.

Date Posted: 7/10/2008 12:31 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
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Tim--

I would send a PM to Sherry/RoyalTech with the ISBN for your book and the story.  She won't tell you who requested the edit, but she can work with you to investigate and find what the issue is and what the data should be.

For what it is worth, as data editors, we are trained not to rely on Amazon's data, since it is so often inaccurate, but to confirm with other, more reliable sources, such as OCLC.

OCLC does indicate for that Cordon title that it was "First published in 1960 under title: Jams, preserves and pickles." Even when you're in a hurry, taking the extra time for small details like publication year and page numbers can really help clarify what you have, and by adding all the details the first time, the data coordinators only have to review it once, rather than twice.

I'm sure Sherry will be able to help you get it sorted out.

Cheers,

Catt

Date Posted: 7/10/2008 12:46 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2008
Posts: 428
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I do what I can with the time I have.

The copyright date does say 1960, so I must have the original. Sort of odd that a book this old would have an ISBN.

Date Posted: 7/10/2008 2:06 PM ET
Member Since: 10/26/2007
Posts: 1,140
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Tim

As Catt said, we look at other sites besides Amazon to determine the correct information.  When the books are approved we double-check what was entered and either edit the correction and/or add information that is missing.  It's possible one of the approvers found the Cordon title and changed it before they approved your submission.


Suzanne

Date Posted: 7/10/2008 2:19 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2008
Posts: 428
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I just don't understand it. I had the book in my hands when I entered it. I put in the correct title. I didn't use Amazon or any other site. I may not always enter all the information, but what I put in is correct. I know now that the book was republished, but I don't understand the logic behind the change. Particularly since the title was changed to something that was misspelled.

The book was requested using the original title. It sat on my "Books to Mail" tab for two days with the original title. Today, it changed to the new title. I'm concerned that when the requestor gets the book that she'll think that I sent the wrong one. In fact, I think I'll PM her to make sure she knows what's coming.

Date Posted: 7/10/2008 3:23 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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As I said, to you Tim, many books are republished with different titles, and you could go ahead and resubmit the title as I told you with the (aka formerly published as....) and that takes care of the situation. PM'ng the requestor is not at all a bad idea, that way she is aware that it is the same book, but that both titles are being used here.

As for older books having ISBN what they actually had were SBNs and those were only 9 digits. Most were extended to 10 digits by placing at the beginning a 0 for books published under US titles and a 1 for those under UK and other countries.

I think this will all work out, especially if you take the initiative to let the requestor know that there is a title change going on with this book, Tim, and I do again repeat that I appreciate it when members care enought to make sure titles are correct, but we have to remember, that many books have more than one ISBN and many have more than one title. It's just the publishers' tricks to get us to buy what we think is a new book :) Thanks again for your help!

Date Posted: 7/10/2008 6:00 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
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<<I don't understand the logic behind the change. Particularly since the title was changed to something that was misspelled.>>

It isn't anything personal, Tim.  The data editors and data coordinators are all volunteers here, and we do the best we can with what is sometimes conflicting and confusing information when we don't have the benefit of having the book in front of us. Other members who aren't "officially" part of the data editing team also edit records themselves. Whomever edited the data was simply trying to update the record to reflect what they found and felt to be the most accurate and complete information available. 

In the defense of our editing team, there does not appear to be a misspelling. "Cordon Bien" is the correct name of the later edition by Hume and Downes, rather than "Cordon Bleu", as confirmed by OCLC (the database libraries use) and Alibris, both of which are more reliable than Amazon (which lists your title as "James" instead of "Jams").

The logic?  I don't read minds, but the member who edited the record may have been trying to clarify and differentiate that book from other books on "Jams, Preserves and Pickles".  Or it may be, as Sherry pointed out, that the publisher "recycled" the ISBN and some of the later "Cordon Bien" editions also carry that ISBN.

In any event, rest assured Tim, the gremlins are not staying up nights looking for ways to mess with your bookshelf.  :-)

Cheers,

Catt

Date Posted: 7/10/2008 6:22 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2008
Posts: 428
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Of course it's not personal. I don't suspect anyone of singling me out. I haven't made any enemies on here as of yet. At least, none that I know of. As to the gremlins, I'm reserving my opinion on them until later.

It sounds like neither none of the databases are that accurate.

Cordon bleu (cordón bleu ) means Blue Ribbon. It's often used to describe superior cooking particularly French cooking since it comes from the name of a famous French school of hospitality.

Cordon bien (cordón bien ) means Good Ribbon. I can't find it anywhere other than for that one book.

Admittedly, my French isn't that great. I only know about a dozen words and phrases, but Cordon Bleu seems to make more sense in this situation.

This is the reason that I refuse to read mysteries. I can never let things go. It's going to drive me nuts until I can find an actual cover image of the reprinted book to find out if it's "cordon bleu" or "cordon bien".

Date Posted: 7/10/2008 10:33 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,693
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I found several sites that listed it as "Cordon Bien Book of Jams, Preserves, & Pickles"

Book Finder:

 

The Cordon Bien Book of Jams, Preserves and Pickles

by Rosemary Hume and Muriel Downes

ISBN 0701117028 / 9780701117023 / 0-7011-1702-8
Publisher Chatto and Windus
Language English
Edition Hardcover

 

The Cordon Bleu Book of Jams, Preserves and Pickles

by Rosemary Hume and Muriel Downes and Margaret Theakston

ISBN 0330029541 / 9780330029544 / 0-330-02954-1
Publisher Pan Macmillan
Language English
Edition Softcover

From All Bookstores.com

The Cordon Bien Book of Jams, Preserves and Pickles

Author:  Rosemary Hume, Muriel Downes
Format:  Book
Publish Date:  January 1970
ISBN-10:  0701117028
ISBN-13:  9780701117023
Date Posted: 7/10/2008 10:49 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2008
Posts: 428
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I saw those sites. However, there's some problems.

  1. Most book sites get their data and images from the same place. So, if it's wrong there, it's wrong everywhere.
  2. The ISBN for the book I had was 0517172003 which doesn't match up with either two that you listed. I have yet to see this book listed as Cordon anything. I haven't checked the OCLC since I'm not completely sure what that is.
  3. Rosemary Hume and Murial Downes wrote a number of other books together. Without exception, each of the other books either had "Cordon Bleu" in the title or listed the "Cordon Bleu Cookery School Staff" as co-author. See this page for details.

I still think someone made a mistake somewhere and entered "Bleu" as "Bien".

Date Posted: 7/11/2008 8:25 AM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,339
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OP said I was in a hurry, so I only entered the basic details of the book

When an approver gets a data edit with only the basic details, he or she doesn't know that you're planning to fill in more details later.  He also doesn't know you have the book in your hand, or whether or not you are the kind of person who proofreads what you type in before you send it.  Sometimes an approver will spend quite a bit of time seeking out the missing data.  If an image of the cover can be found, sometimes some info can be gleaned from  that.

The term "cordon bien" doesn't make a lot of sense as a stand-alone in French.  You would use it as "cordon bien tendu" (a tight rope) but not really by itself.  But someone looking at the word on a cover, who doesn't know much French, could easily read it as "bien" instead of "bleu."  (Cordon bleu means "blue ribbon.")

I just did a search for "cordon bien" and found this site.  The entry actually says "cordon bleu" but it's a bit blurry and does look an awful lot like "bien."  And that's how it was catalogued on the site!  So I'm sure it was an honest mistake for your pickle book with the little information the approver had.  As Elizabeth said:

 Even when you're in a hurry, taking the extra time for small details like publication year and page numbers can really help clarify what you have, and by adding all the details the first time, the data coordinators only have to review it once, rather than twice.

Amen!  We appreciate any edit we get, but we love those with the details already filled in. :-)

 

 

 

Date Posted: 7/11/2008 10:14 AM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2008
Posts: 428
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Actually, I think that's what happened to make it Cordon Bien in the library that you use. The lower case l was mistaken for an i. And the u was inverted to an n. Bleu became Bien.

I'm still surprised by the change though. After all, I entered one ISBN, 0517172003. And, from what I can tell, it was republished as what I'm calling the Cordon Bien books which has 2 other ISBNs, 0701117028 and 0330029541. I don't have access to the library database that you use. So, I don't know if they reused the original ISBN or not.

The book that I had didn't have Cordon Bleu or Cordon Bien on it. It just had "Jams, Preserves & Pickles". Neither French term appeared anywhere in the book. The Cordon Bien on this database was added by someone who had never even seen the book. That's what my original message was about.

Date Posted: 7/12/2008 10:08 AM ET
Member Since: 11/28/2006
Posts: 877
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Sorry - deleted coz I was wrong!  (shhhhhh)



Last Edited on: 7/12/08 10:09 AM ET - Total times edited: 1