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Topic: What Can I Do About This Order And RC's

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Subject: What Can I Do About This Order And RC's
Date Posted: 9/4/2014 9:28 AM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 444
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I received a wishlist  book yesterday that has water damage and wet envelope. top and bottom of the book are damaged when the envelope got wet and water dripped down the  pages of the book.  I am under the impression that my mail got delievered during the monsoon type rain storm we had yesterday afternoon. we have had a  really rainy summer where I live this year WI . big thunderstorms and flood type rains. I have been getting a lot of books in the last  few months that are in  less then good shape. some look like they took a swim and a few smelled like they had been dipped in an ashtray or read in a smokey bar. I have put specific  RC conditions on my orders  for this reason. here are my requester conditions and yes they were turned on when I requested this wishlist book.

 

  • for hardcovers if they originally had a dust jacket I want them with a dust jacket.

 

  • ex-library books are fine as long as they are in good shape and the binding is tight.

 

 

  • Please wrap all books in plastic. or other weather proof material. thank you.

 

  • Please make sure that all books meet the PBS Guidelines thank you.

 

  • Please no books that are in smoking home/environment (current home)

 

the book I received was loose in a padded envelope where the padded part of the envelope has openings at the top and bottom of the padded inside. my question is since I specifically ask that any orders be wrapped in plastic and the book was loose in a padded envelope with openings in the padding on both ends and my  book got wet while inside said envelope do I mark this book as received with a problem RC's not met?  what would you do.

 

 



Last Edited on: 9/4/14 1:26 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Cathy A. (Cathy) - ,
Date Posted: 9/4/2014 9:50 AM ET
Member Since: 12/27/2005
Posts: 4,117
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Yes, you can mark it received with a problem for not meeting your RC.

Date Posted: 9/4/2014 9:51 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,662
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Was the padded envelope lined with bubble wrap? Because that is plastic and people could interpret that as meeting the RC. But, your choice is to mark the book RWAP - Doesn't meet RC and have the conversation with the sender.
zeke68 -
Date Posted: 9/4/2014 10:30 AM ET
Member Since: 10/30/2008
Posts: 2,810
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Was the padded envelope lined with bubble wrap? Because that is plastic and people could interpret that as meeting the RC

This would be my first question.  And, if you get someone who's not interested in resolving the issue, that will be their response, that the padded envelope has plastic and is "weatherproof."

I'd mark it RWAP and see what happens.  I'd also change my RC to specify that all books should be wrapped in plastic, not giving people the out of saying that a plastic lined envelope is good enough.

Date Posted: 9/4/2014 10:42 AM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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  • ex-library books are fine as long as they are in good shape and the binding is tight.

 I think this will be open to interpretation as well.

What you consider 'good shape' and what the sender considers 'good shape' may be completely different. They can't read your mind.

If you want them to meet guidelines, you don't need to say anything. But if there's something about library books that would be different from that, then I'd say you should be more specific.

 

Date Posted: 9/4/2014 11:42 AM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2009
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If the envelope has a plastic liner (bubble wrap or whatnot), I would just mark it damaged by USPS and let it go. 

Date Posted: 9/4/2014 11:43 AM ET
Member Since: 4/28/2009
Posts: 9,493
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I, for one, do NOT consider an envelope padded with bubble wrap to be a book "wrapped in plastic"--probably need to be more specific with that RC, especially since your weather pattern REQUIRES more protection for your books.

Also, Molly, it's a good idea when posting something that discusses weather to at least identify the state or area you are in.

Date Posted: 9/4/2014 8:35 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,167
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I'll agree with Jeanne, that it can help senders be more aware if your RC mentions a region or (better yet) that you have some very wet seasonal weather in your area.  A nicely informative (but brief) RC was my first introduction to plastic underwrap RC's and helped me be a more understanding and informed sender.

That said, I personally would not consider a (paper outside/plastic inside) envelope adequate to meet your RC, mostly because I know the plastic often doesn't cover the entire inside of the envelope and leakage is possible (even likely...thus the wet book you received).  But I also understand that many members would think such an envelope meets your RC...this one may be a bit of a gray area.  That said, unless the book us mummified in plastic wrap there's a chance of water damage...USPS can be creative and persistent that way.



Last Edited on: 9/5/14 7:48 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 9/4/2014 10:35 PM ET
Member Since: 7/23/2005
Posts: 7,302
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I'll be the odd man out and admit that I think a bubble envelope met the OP's RC. As a minimum, if it's ok to wrap books in paper and nothing else (according to PBS standards), I'd absolutely consider a bubble envelope as meeting the RC. The book was encased in a padded envelope lined with plastic. Perhaps the RC needs to be just a tad bit more specific.

As a sender, I have no way of knowing that the OP has been experiencing 'monsoon type' and 'flood type' rains. I'd respectfully not return the credit and I'd explain my reasons for that.

I hope you have a string of better books soon! Disappointing books are so disappointing. :)

Date Posted: 9/5/2014 4:06 AM ET
Member Since: 8/20/2007
Posts: 1,020
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  • ex-library books are fine as long as they are in good shape and the binding is tight.

 I think this will be open to interpretation as well.

What you consider 'good shape' and what the sender considers 'good shape' may be completely different. They can't read your mind.

If you want them to meet guidelines, you don't need to say anything. But if there's something about library books that would be different from that, then I'd say you should be more specific.

Perhaps stating that "ex-library books are fine as long as they meet PBS posting guidelines"  or simply that "ex-library books are fine" would be better. In my RC, I state

"My requestor condition is really just a reminder of the PBS Golden Book Rule for posting books -- Please do not send books marked with colored highlighters or with ink on text pages.

I am willing to accept books with an inscription or previous owner's name in front of book; library books with the usual stamps, markings and stickers; as well as books with writing or underlining in pencil that can be erased."

I added the second sentence to clarify that certain types of writing in books are acceptable to me, and I have not yet had any problems using the RC.

 



Last Edited on: 9/5/14 4:12 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/5/2014 12:23 PM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2009
Posts: 5,696
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I vaguely remember there was a very long (and very contentious) thread a few years ago about whether "wrapped in plastic" meant wrapped in ADDITIONAL plastic. Obviously, no consensus was reached, but it was suggested that if you require more plastic than is found in a plastic lined envelope, it would be wise to specifically state so in your RC. 

Date Posted: 9/5/2014 1:24 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,662
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I think the main point is that no matter what you feel personally about whether or not a plastic lined envelope meets the RC, a reasonable member can conclude that it would. Especially a member that is not on the forums ... which is most members.

Date Posted: 9/5/2014 7:06 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,185
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Most people will believe putting a book in an envelope lined in bubble wrap is "...in plastic. or other weather proof material..". If the book had not encountered a "monsoon" (where was the book left at to be subject to the rain for long enough to soak the book?) it likely would have travelled just fine. It you want specific wrapping, you need to define it better in your RC so that people understand exactly what you need because "other weather proof material" tells them that the sender can decide what materials will weatherproof the book.

I also suggest either (a) finding a way for your books to be delivered where they aren't subjected to weather or (b) talking to your post office about keeping your mail dry in transit. Whichever is lacking should be corrected if you are going to have an RC that will hold sender's responsible for damage in transit. Somewhere that book was allowed to lay in water. A sender is being penalized for that and they had no control over that.

Date Posted: 9/5/2014 8:28 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 444
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my book was left in a hinged mailbox that closes on a covered porch. i can only assume that the book was delivered when the rain was at its heaviest. it was only out in the rain when my mail carrier was walking to my house with it.

 

 



Last Edited on: 9/7/14 4:33 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/6/2014 11:10 PM ET
Member Since: 5/7/2009
Posts: 793
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If this problem occurs regularly I definitely would consider getting a post office box if you are close to a post office.  Your carrier service obviously isn't prepared for your "monsoons".

Date Posted: 9/7/2014 12:33 PM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,249
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I am one of those members who considers a padded envelope with plastic inside as meeting a wrapped in plastic RC. If you do not think that is sufficient, say so in your RC, be specific. I always wrap books in plastic when I am not sending them in a plastic lined padded envelope, but wrapping in plastic is not going to completely waterproof a book. The books I send will be protected from being carried in a rainstorm but not being dropped in a puddle or left to sit in outside or in a leaky or unclosed mailbox. But basically, once the book leaves my hands, if it gets saturated, I consider that "Damaged by USPS". I live in Michigan where we too have had countless heavy rainstorms this summer. I just finished weatherproofing my mailbox so that there will be no more leaks into it...that is my responsibility, not the sender's worry.

Date Posted: 9/11/2014 7:44 PM ET
Member Since: 7/26/2014
Posts: 63
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I live in WI also and have gotten no wet books this summer and Ive never had a wet package ever and I order things online all the time. Some have been wrapped in plastic and others a bubble mailer and others just paper and none wet most people used bubble mailers the plastic seemed to be in the minority. Maybe see about lining your mailbox better. My books when they come are inside except for the mail truck to the door. So Im thinking its the mailbox that is the problem and not the way that people are wrapping them.

Date Posted: 9/11/2014 10:21 PM ET
Member Since: 8/25/2009
Posts: 690
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Or the carrier, if it's on a foot route & near the end of the loop, sitting in the open satchel on a rainy day.

Date Posted: 9/12/2014 10:07 PM ET
Member Since: 8/19/2007
Posts: 4,217
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I use the bubble-wrap type envelopes for almost all my transactions, but when someone asks that the book be wrapped in plastic or other weather-proof material, I always use additional plastic wrap.  Pat

Date Posted: 9/18/2014 9:39 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2009
Posts: 4,581
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I think you should have marked this damaged by USPS. Its the fact that you said plastic, or weather proofed material.  I would consider a padded envelope with bubble mailer as weather proofed.  I might however put tape over the top ends where it closes so water can't get in JIC, or I would send in a plastic mailer if you'd have given heavy rainy as the reason.  You didn't give the reason though so that leaves it open to interpretation.    

However it seems to me that the package would have had to sit in water for awhile to get that damaged.  I don't think just being carried in a satchel would let water get into the ends like that.  Maybe it was in one of those plastic tubs that the po has and that got water in it and then it sat in that.  It would have had to be exposed to water in transit too when it was received at the po unless there is a garage or awning over their back door.  

Here in MO can be really rainy too during the spring and fall and have been lately.  We got a powerful rain that lasted hours I think monday.  That same day I got a package from my postage employee who walks and stuck it in my hindged mail box that was only wet on the outside.  It was sealed exactly how the envelope is supposed to and it had no problems combating the heavy rain we got.  In other words  I get my mail the same way you do though in a hindged box under a porch with a carrier who walks, and I have never had this problem.....   You should talk to the Post office and let them know that you got a package like that. 

Date Posted: 9/18/2014 10:50 PM ET
Member Since: 1/23/2010
Posts: 2,270
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I guess I'm in the same boat as Molly. My RC says

"Please wrap books in plastic. Thank you"

I thought it would be understood that meant some type of plastic wrapped around the book, in addition to the mailer.

I struggle with phrasing sometimes. Any suggestions for clarifying?

 



Last Edited on: 9/18/14 10:51 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/21/2014 1:00 PM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,249
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Nancy D., as someone who considers a plastic lined envelope as being wrapped in plastic, I would understand something like, "Please wrap books in a layer of plastic, even if using a plastic lined padded envelope."