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Topic: What was the consensus on these?

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Subject: What was the consensus on these?
Date Posted: 2/9/2009 10:49 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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I know we've discussed this before, but I can't remember specifics.  What was the general consensus on a missing teaser page?  I guess I should ask if everyone knows what the teaser page is:P  If you don't know, it's usually the first page of a paperback, and it usually has either an book excerpt or blurb printed on it.  Is that a "missing text page"?  I know technically it has text, but is it what they mean in the posting guidelines?  Teasers are cool & all, but they aren't exactly necessary for the book to be intact.  Anyway, opinions?

Date Posted: 2/9/2009 11:06 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
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I don't know the official rule - I wouldn't mind.  I do mind when the page with the previous works of the author is missing, though.

Ruth

Date Posted: 2/9/2009 11:23 PM ET
Member Since: 1/20/2009
Posts: 2,680
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The rules just say 'No loose or missing text pages', it doesn't specify whether any text counts, or just the story text itself. Hmm, this is definitely a case where you could argue either side and not be wrong (according to the rules). I personally wouldn't be very happy to receive that book, since I prefer my books to be completely intact. But then not having it doesn't detract from enjoyment of the book itself, or from your knowledge of the book or writer, the way that having the list of previous works or about the author pages would. I think that, of all the pages in the book with text on them, that is the least important one. But is the book postable? I honestly don't really know for sure. But, if it's okay for any page with text that isn't part of the story itself to be missing, does everyone who cares about the other pages (author's info and previous works, for example) need to start specifying that in their RCs as well?

So, in the interest of avoiding having a bad precedent start, I'm going to cast my vote for the book not being postable.



Last Edited on: 2/9/09 11:25 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/9/2009 11:37 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,194
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I don't think there ever was a consensus. I believe the only thing TPTB said was "use common sense", which doesn't help much IMO.

I wouldn't want to get a book with missing pages (those ads for other books in the back, maybe). If a buddy asked, I'd most likely tell them that it was OK, but be miffed if someone just sent me one without asking first.  I wouldn't knowingly send one. There's no way for the receiver to know what was missing and it might be a page that they like to have.

Date Posted: 2/9/2009 11:42 PM ET
Member Since: 2/19/2008
Posts: 2,007
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This might be a silly question but...

If it's a teaser page, as described, and not a page from the actual text of the book, and it's completely missing...  How can you tell?  Aside from the obvious "Well, there's a ragged fringe where it used to be" or "You can see where it was cut out because it left a stub" I mean.  If the page just came loose and fell out, unless you had the same edition of the book to compare it against, how would you know it was missing?

Sorry if this sounds silly, but that was the first thing that popped into my head when I read this thread.

Date Posted: 2/10/2009 1:49 AM ET
Member Since: 1/20/2009
Posts: 2,680
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Well, many books of the same type have the same general contents, so you may not know for absolute certainty (assuming that absolutely all visible trace of the book page is gone) but you'd have a pretty good suspicion. And if the book is part of a series that has a specific layout to each book, or something like that (some publishers virtually always use the same layout, for instance) then you could be certain without even needing another copy.

Though, what are you trying to say exactly? If someone who receives it doesn't know the page is gone, then it's okay?



Last Edited on: 2/10/09 1:51 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/10/2009 4:10 AM ET
Member Since: 1/1/2009
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Missing page, I would not send it.    :(  

Date Posted: 2/10/2009 6:53 AM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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Bernhard, it's a romance, and they all have a teaser page.  It's kind of expected:P  It just looks different when you open the cover; you're looking at a title page instead of a teaser page, and I wasn't thinking about a previous works page, but if there was one, it seems to be missing too.  I had to look closely under a light , but at least one page was definitely torn out.  I'm sure you've heard it before, I got it this way & overlooked it at the time, but I just read it and I dunno what to do with it.  It's not brand new, but in good condition.  Anyhoo, I guess I can offer it as an unpostable, but I thought I'd ask what everyone else thought first.

Date Posted: 2/10/2009 7:17 AM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
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I'm not sure what type of page you're talking about, not being a reader of romances, :-D but this seems a little iffy. If you can see ragged edges and it's obvious the page is torn out, that's one thing, or if you've seen another copy of the same book and are *sure* the page was supposed to be there, okay. Definitely don't post it.

But if it's just that there is "usually" a page like that in those kind of books but it's not there--and you had to "look closely under a light" to notice it wasn't there...well, it's no wonder you missed it when you first got the book! I mean, I do a look-through--flip through pages, inspect for stains and water damage and make sure it's intact and such--on books when I get them, but in no way, shape or form do I inspect each book with a light and a magnifying glass! Are there people who do that??

I think I would probably post the book myself unless, as I said, it's very obvious there's a page missing or it was essential to the reading of the book.

Cheryl

Date Posted: 2/10/2009 8:45 AM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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It's hard to explain to someone who's not accustomed to seeing it, and I haven't read other stuff in so long, I forget if it's just romances that have teaser pages, or everything else does too:P  If you do read them regularly though - especially MMPs, you're accustomed to opening the cover, and there will be a teaser page, and it's usually a book excerpt.  Some suggestive scene, usually with dialogue.  The eye catcher that makes we pathetic romance junkies wanna buy that silly book:P  Then, there's usually a reviews page, not for that book, but one of the author's previous works, and there are a couple of single sentence review excerpts, or maybe a blurb or two from some other authors who commented on one of this authors previous works, and often - although not always - on the back side of that page, there's a list of previous works.  Then there's usually the title page, which is just the book title & author's name printed on a blank page, maybe with the publisher's logo at the bottom.  With this book, the first page you come to is the title page, and no, there weren't any overt signs that anything was missing aside from that, but it just didn't look right to me because that's not what I'm used to seeing.  The cover does fold back very easily though, which isn't exactly usual, and there's a visible crease there on the front cover, along the spine.  Like the cover was folded back and creased.  I didn't see any of this when I got it, of course, but I usually am just flipping through and fanning pages, looking for highlighting & writing, binding defects, etc.  I didn't see it until I went to read it, and when I did, I didn't see paper remnants at the binding, but I'm sorta blind:P  I have one of those crafter's lamps with the magnifying glass center, so I held it up under that, and you can see just a slight edge of paper down at the binding, like a page was actually creased and then torn out.  Maybe it was damaged and somebody just tore it out rather than trying to repair it, I don't know, but something is definitely missing.  I'm pretty familiar with the rules, and I know what my options are.  I can declare it unpostable, or say it's "grey area" and post it, and then PM anybody who orders it with this information & see if they still want it.  If not, I can cancel.  At least, I'm pretty sure that's what my options are:P  What I'm wondering is what the rest of you think, or what you would do.  Right now, I'm not sure how I'd advise someone else.  I hate to say it, but being totally honest about it, it's harder to trust a judgement call when it's you in that situation, y'know?

Oh - and I checked it on my RL and there are 39 copies in the system, so it's not WL or rare or anything.



Last Edited on: 2/10/09 8:57 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/10/2009 10:16 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,194
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That's the whole problem for me Bernhard, you really won't know that the next person can tell its missing a page, or if they think its an OK page to be missing, until they mark it RWP because they expected the page and it wasn't there. Not worth the risk (in my opinion) and since all they have to do is copy the Help Section that says "no text missing pages" and say there was text on it, you have no good defense even if the story is completely readable without it.

It one of those sucky areas that takes a perfectly good read out of the system, but also one of those areas that if you give an inch someone will take a mile.

Date Posted: 2/10/2009 10:49 AM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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Yeah, I agree with Melanie there.  And I wouldn't want to try to just slide that past someone anyway.  It's dishonest, for one thing.  To look at it from my own POV, or basically, if you're trying to follow what the help docs have to say about using common sense and not posting books you wouldn't want to receive yourself, I can't say that I had any objection to this book, and I can't say that I'd have marked it RWAP if I had known when I received it, but I definitely missed that page being there & knew something was up.  And I like teaser pages, as potentially embarrassing as it is to admit that:P  I'm sure most romance readers do.  It's not a selling point on a book you get online, like it is in a bookstore, but nevertheless, I think most romance readers expect to see it, and the majority of them do read it.  I doubt that we can help it:P  Anyway, I thank everyone for the advice, and I think I'm just going to offer it as an unpostable.  Less hassle that way, and I'm not exactly suffering for credits either.



Last Edited on: 2/10/09 10:50 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/10/2009 2:02 PM ET
Member Since: 2/19/2008
Posts: 2,007
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Just to clear up any confusion about my question...  I asked it from the point of view of someone who may have picked this book up at a garage sale, etc., intending to post it here.  If you're unfamiliar with the book, the author, publisher, whatever, how could you tell that a page was missing?

If I walked into a UBS and picked up this book, with the page missing, how would I know it was missing and that I shouldn't post it?

 

ETA: No Tiffany, I'm not saying it would be okay to post it if you think the requestor won't be able to tell.  How could I, the sender, tell it was missing and thus unpostable?



Last Edited on: 2/10/09 2:04 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/10/2009 2:11 PM ET
Member Since: 8/31/2008
Posts: 2,608
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I learn something every time I check out these forums.  I never heard of a teaser page before.  Interesting.  But I have to agree with Bernard, if we don't know the page is supposed to be there, we wouldn't know it was missing, and wouldn't know not to post it.  Even simple tings can be complicated.  I will just add that I have been very pleased with the quality of books that I have received through this site.

Date Posted: 2/10/2009 2:16 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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Sorry Bernhard, if I came off that way.  My initial thought when you first said that was that you were just asking how I knew that page was missing if there were no signs of it being there in the first place.  My response to that was basically that most romance readers are accustomed to it being there because they usually are.  That's what tipped me off and made me look closer, and chances are good that the person who would order that book from me would notice the same thing.  Maybe not right away but like I did, when I read it.  But it's sorta uncommon these days for an MMP romance not to have a teaser page.

Oh - and good point, Valerie.  Someone who just got a box of romances from someone else or whatever & doesn't read them, could easily post one like this without realizing it.



Last Edited on: 2/10/09 2:19 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/10/2009 2:46 PM ET
Member Since: 1/20/2009
Posts: 2,680
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I think the key point here is that you DO know a page is missing, you can't post it and later claim not to know, and it's very likely that the person who ordered the book would realize it was missing as well. If you didn't know and posted it, it's an honest mistake, which you'd need to apologize for later. But since you do know, posting it and sending it to someone without telling them would be dishonest. So, I think you have your options correct, either offer it as a freebie or inform any requester of the situation before sending it.