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Topic: Is this why the WL is changing???

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Subject: Is this why the WL is changing???
Date Posted: 3/12/2008 10:07 AM ET
Member Since: 10/4/2007
Posts: 208
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So I have a much wished for book that I posted over the weekend.  The first 48 hours timed out, so I am now on wisher #2....it will time out later this morning.   So I'm 0 and 2!  ha.

Now I know that people are busy and everything....but when I get an email saying that a wish has been granted I try to long on asap to either accept or decline...so that if I don't want it (or don't have the credits!!!) the next person in line can have it.

Is this why they are changing the Wish List? 

patticom - ,
Date Posted: 3/12/2008 10:26 AM ET
Member Since: 11/3/2007
Posts: 416
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One of the reasons, yup.  :) 

Date Posted: 3/12/2008 10:40 AM ET
Member Since: 3/6/2008
Posts: 341
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Where did you hear they were changing the WishList?? Is there anyway that i can read about that?? (Sorry, New.. :)

Date Posted: 3/12/2008 10:42 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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It's in the News letters and help docs about the new WL. This is one of the reasons.  I just had a book go through 5 or 6 people before it was accepted. Which is why I check the WL on my buddy list first before I post to FIFO.  I know those people will check their account and not let it time out.

Date Posted: 3/12/2008 10:47 AM ET
Member Since: 3/6/2008
Posts: 341
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Where can I find the Newsletter at?? I do get the daily digests everyday sent to my inbox... Can you do this with the Newsletters as well??

Date Posted: 3/12/2008 10:50 AM ET
Member Since: 10/4/2007
Posts: 208
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Trisha,

If you go to the Help Docs and look at How the Wish List Works - it talks about the changes that are coming.

I hope that helps.

Date Posted: 3/12/2008 10:50 AM ET
Member Since: 10/4/2007
Posts: 208
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Mary,

How do you post to a buddy's WL.  I've never done that.

thanks!

 

Date Posted: 3/12/2008 11:08 AM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Last Edited on: 5/17/10 9:39 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/12/2008 11:13 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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You just look at their WL and post the book you have.  Post it on the main WL screen not the book page.  If you post it while looking at the books info/reviews it'll post it to FIFO.  Post if from the person's actual list.  I usually PM first to make sure they still want it, have credits etc...,

Date Posted: 3/12/2008 11:30 AM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2005
Posts: 2,349
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I don't see how the WL change is going to impact this.

You can still set it to 48 hour hold and it works the same (from the sender's perspective) as it does now.

Date Posted: 3/13/2008 3:20 AM ET
Member Since: 6/22/2006
Posts: 95
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Exactly Kayote. That will be the first thing I do if/when this is implemented.  I will change it to the 48 hour offer.  Now instead of having SOME of my books auto-requested, none of them will be lol.  The only reason it will solve some of the frustation is because people will not realize that option is there initially. 

The change that will alleviate the problem some is skipping those without credits currently without affecting their place in line.  That change though could probably have been accomplished without adding the ranking.

It will also punish you if you have alot of books you want that are rarely posted.  Either you have to keep them at the top and sacrifice your points for other newer books or you have to chance getting overtaken by someone newer ranking it higher.

Here are a few examples they didn't get a chance to show:

This example will affect most people:  Lets say a book is coming out in the next few weeks.  You added it to your wishlist last month.  Another user adds it 10 days after you.  If the wishlist converts today, you will have a 5,000 point lead on them.  If you ranked it 2nd and they ranked it first, it will take .66 days to catch you.  If you ranked it 3rd to their 1st, 36 days. 5th to their first is 21 days and 10th is 13 days.

For the collectors or those looking for books that are rarely posted, this example might interest you.

 I have 200 books on my current wishlist(and another 600 or so on my reminder. YES I want all those books and NO I am not crazy enough to think I am going to end up ordering all of them through PBS)  Back to the example... So lets take a book say The Complete Fuzzy by H. Beam Piper.  Since this book rarely appears, the chances are it could be another 5-7 years on the current wishlist before I get a copy.

I have had that on my list since 8/23/2006. As of today it has been 568 days.  That means I have earned 284,000 points in this new system.  if a new member came in and ranked this book number one, it would take them 312 days to amass that 284,00 points.  Now if during that 312 I ranked this book as my 200th, since obviously one of the books on my wishlist will have to be that number,  I will earn a stunning 14,976 additional points.  By day 330 this new user who added it will have eclipsed me in points and force me lower on the waiting list.  So in less then 1 year, this user will pass me by for a book that I have been patiently waiting to be posted for roughly 2 1/2 years at that point.  

If I drop the book in ranking further in order to get some of the other books that may come more often, it decreases the time it would take to pass me insignificantly.   At 500th ranking, it would only take 320 days.  If they had it ranked 10th instead of first and I left it at 200th, it would take a total of 620 days; at 500th with thier 10th it is 592 days.

patticom - ,
Date Posted: 3/13/2008 4:38 AM ET
Member Since: 11/3/2007
Posts: 416
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It's not a perfect system, by any means. 

But let's look at this from the opposite perspective, based on what is happening over on swap-a-dvd.  That site started what, a year ago?  two?  Point is the beta users who got on right at the start have built up a ton of points on their WL movies during that time, and movies that anyone beta has listed as top 5 the rest of us basically will never get until all of them do.  If they had followed the same basic FIFO list, this would be true of any and all movies that any of the beta users wished, ever.  As it is, I joined new a couple of months ago and have already received 20 dvds!  Granted about half of them I ordered directly that were not wishlisted, but I've still managed to get several of my most-wanted choices because points do build up quickly on #1.  If they did not rank the wishlist in this way, I'd have gotten zip except older less popular films I ordered from people's shelves, and I probably would have left the site by now.  Most of the movies I listed from my personal collection had a dozen or more people wishlisting them--and a few were Disney films that have 40 or more people wishing.  I'd have been very annoyed to give away my high-demand quality movies and gotten nothing but "rejects" that no one particularly wants in return, kwim? 

My biggest issue with the change on PBS is that as hard as it is to rank movies sometimes it's even harder to rank books.  Especially for those of us homeschooling or taking college classes, we could easily rank every single book needed for school as #1.  Collectors could list all of those as #1.  Series readers could rank every book in their current series as #1.  Maybe instead of straight number ranking R&R would consider tiers of wantedness with a dozen or so books permitted in each tier??  A-list books would get points equivalent to a #1 ranking on swap-a-dvd, B-list would be like #2, C-list would be like #3, etc.... 

 

 

 

Date Posted: 3/13/2008 9:03 AM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
Posts: 5,629
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Patti, Swap-A-DVD started this past October/November.  So not that long ago.

I think there will be good things and bad things about the new WL changes.  I can't really say I'm looking forward to it just based on the amount of time I will have to devote to it.  Oh well.

Date Posted: 3/13/2008 9:22 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,177
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Yes, it can aleviate the problem with SO many no answers WL offers. Because there won't be as many new members that run into this scenario - post their 10 books, build their WL, and then see they are so far back in line they won't be getting any of the books they really want for what looks like months and months, so they get mad and leave the site (or rarely sign on) with their WL still in tact. When the offers start hitting their WL, no answer. The WL changes may give them a glimmer of hope to get their #1 or #2 a little sooner so they may stay around and be there to answer their offers.

patticom - ,
Date Posted: 3/13/2008 9:55 AM ET
Member Since: 11/3/2007
Posts: 416
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No, Swap-a-DVD started at least a year before that in beta version, because I've seen people talking about having certain movie titles on wait list for over a year.

Date Posted: 3/13/2008 10:27 AM ET
Member Since: 5/18/2007
Posts: 129
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I don't understand why they are joining the reminder list with the wish list, I just think its confusing and time consuming!

Date Posted: 3/13/2008 10:32 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,177
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No, Swap-a-DVD started at least a year before that in beta version, because I've seen people talking about having certain movie titles on wait list for over a year. - Then they are confused because I have been around longer than SwapaDVD. SwapaCD has been around for a while longer, but DVD is less than 7 months old.

eta: the post that announced SwapaDVD beta #1 was by Robert on 11/10/07.



Last Edited on: 3/13/08 10:36 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/13/2008 10:45 AM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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Swap-a-DVD was not in Beta testing THAT long before they opened it up to the public. Anyone who says they have had a DVD on their WishList for over a year, is just generalizing, because it hasn't been that long ago. It would have had to have been in Beta for nearly 6 months before opening, and I know it was not that long.

ETA: There was private Beta testing before Robert's public post, but only a month or two.



Last Edited on: 3/13/08 10:46 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/13/2008 10:48 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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Also I think it might help some people think twice about what books they put on their WL if they have to rank them.  Helping to reduce the lines.  If there's a book they aren't sure about they might wait to put it on WL instead of joining the line anyway and cancelling or ignoring the offer.

Date Posted: 3/13/2008 1:18 PM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2006
Posts: 4,110
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Well now that Anthony has totally depressed me...  lol jk, but I do have several hard to get older books on my WL that I have been paitently waiting for and that have fairly long wait lines, plus some new titles all of which I want I never turn down a granted wish and try to keep as many auto requested as possible.  My solution to the problem is to remove everything except those harder to find books, and look for a new avenue for newer books.

You can't use SwapaDVD as an example mainly because they are new, and while you might have gotten a lot of DVD's in a short time it is only because the large influx of new members posting their required DVD's.  I joined during the beta period and have one, just one dvd on my list.  When I joined I was like #6 or 7 and at the end of the line, I have been at #1 for 4 months and no sign of getting it anytime soon.  The line moved quite quickly when the site opened up for general membership but since then the line gets longer behind me now at 21 wishers, but I have yet to be offered the movie.  Which btw is on autorequest.

I think the current WL is perfectly fine and while the new one might have some slight perks (jumping ahead of others is the only one I can think of off hand) in the long run it will neither make the lines move faster nor will it keep people from waiting until the last minute to accept (or even mail) so you're still gonna have to wait. 

The major problem as I see it is due to the fact we live in an "instant" society, we want everything right now.  We want our WL books posted right now and we want them sent to us right now anything short of that and we complain.  Mark my words there will be just as many complaints with the new system as the old, just different people doing the complaining.

Date Posted: 3/13/2008 2:44 PM ET
Member Since: 1/14/2008
Posts: 6,175
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re: "I don't understand why they are joining the reminder list with the wish list, I just think its confusing and time consuming!"

I'm with Amber on this one - I don't have a problem with it but I'm curious. One more question... Should I go ahead and move my RL to my WL now?

Date Posted: 3/13/2008 2:50 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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Not necessarily, Kathleen. Unless you are ready to order them now, do not move them until the change happens. When the lists are combined, you will be able to mark those that you are not ready to order now, as "on hold" and they will not be actually requested when a book becomes available. If you move it now and one is posted, you will be offered the book, if you are next in line for it.

I have books on my RL that cannot presently be placed on my WL because there are copies available in the system, but I am not ready to spend the credit for them. When the lists are combined, they will either be placed way down the list as far as priority, or marked "on hold" on my WL.

Date Posted: 3/13/2008 2:53 PM ET
Member Since: 7/26/2006
Posts: 526
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.



Last Edited on: 5/3/11 5:19 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/13/2008 3:26 PM ET
Member Since: 6/22/2006
Posts: 95
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Patricia: Ignoring the fact that you are incorrect about how long SwapDVD has been active, the problem with your example is you are discussing once again newer DVDs.  There is a huge difference between wanting to get a copy of No Country For Old Men and wanting say wanting A Bronx Tale produced in 1998(I am not a DVD collector so no clue how hard to find it is)  

Melaine: You truly think that?  Look at my example.  If a new user came in and wanted The Complete Fuzzy, they have to wait a MINIMUM of 320 days to pass me and I am NOT first in line.  They would have no clue how long it will take them to become first in line.  So after a month and they have not moved up the line won't those same people get mad and leave?  It doesn't alleviate that problem. The skipping over accounts with no credits will do more to alleviate the no wishlist answer then ranking.  On top of that their accounts will sit and they will grow on the wishlist until they are #1.  If they set their account to 48 offer guess what now you are exactly back where you started before all the changes. Lets assume they leave it on autorequest and they have 3 credits.  Now when they get #1, you are going to send the books to them. There is a good chance they will not sign back in to mark the book recieved. The system will mark it as lost and the credit is returned to them to allow them to order another book while being inactive. 

 

 

 

Date Posted: 3/13/2008 3:50 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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Anthony, the results of the changes will be seen gradually over time. Those with many many points banked are unlikely to see themselves being passed any time soon. Where we'll see the changes is in upcoming books and other books where the playing field will be "even". Look over at SaDVD for example. There is considerable volatility in the WL because may people have added DVDs at approximately the same time.

Newer members will see progress on books with many many wishers and on newer books added to the system. Most of these members are likely to be more interested in recent books, and will WL them. They will also rank books up front, prioritizing those they are anxious to read. They are also more likely to read and pass along the book when finished. This means that more books will be re-posted into the system.

Inactive members who have no credits will be skipped over in the WL line. They'll be invisible members. If members continue being patient, they'll be weeded out by their inactivity when they don't respond to books. But if they're out of credits, they won't cause a WL holdup. Members who end up sending a book to an inactive member (because of AR and the member having credits) will get their credit automatically by the system.

As for rarely-posted, OOP books: If we desire them that badly, we have to choose. Either put them at the top of the WL and increase wait times for current books or find another source for them and rank the frequently-posted books higher. This is a choice for each individual.

I look at SaDVD, and some of my discs are slipping and some are advancing and some aren't moving at all. DVDs are a different animal from books. People tend to watch movies over and over. For most novels, we tend to read them once and pass them along. I think we'll see lots more books posted here than DVDs or CDs over time. Just the nature of the beast. But I just don't worry about it. Sometimes I'll get my book here, sometimes elsewhere. But I'll always have plenty of books to read and plenty of time to wait. :)

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