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Topic: wish list holds that never become requests

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Subject: wish list holds that never become requests
Date Posted: 8/9/2015 5:21 PM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2008
Posts: 2,658
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How many of these do you think there are? I am thinking maybe as many as 50% of wishes never become requests. I just had another one this weekend. When I post a wish listed book and it goes on hold I don't expect many of them to turn into requests.

Date Posted: 8/9/2015 5:51 PM ET
Member Since: 8/3/2009
Posts: 537
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Do you mean 48-hour holds for the person to confirm the request? In my experience almost all of them turn into requests, or time out and go to the next person. I'm very surprised that you've found half of yours don't.

Date Posted: 8/10/2015 9:12 AM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,253
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I would say that 75% of the time the book is ultimately requested, but might have to roll thru several requests. When there is only one wisher I think the odds drop to about 50%. I have one right now that I am waiting on to be accepted but when I look at the member's profile I can see that they are not very active -- no books posted or wished for since 2014 -- but having said that, those "only copy in the system" books are often requested within a few weeks.

Date Posted: 8/10/2015 3:50 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 736
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This issue arises in so many posts. It is totally within PBS's ability to address and they choose not to. Some of the many ways to address it include

1. require periodic login to maintain active account

2. prevent Auto Request if member does not have a credit and swap ( if needed)

3. enable poster to post to next auto request within FIFO system

Personally, I no longer bother to post wish list books because of the rollover time out issues. No idea if others are doing likewise but obtaining  wishlist books outside of friends seems way off. Why bother trying to add to a system when any meaningful percentage rolls over or times out.. Mostly I buy my newly issued books and use to post them. Now, they can just go to my library because I usually finish in a few days.They are still best sellers and on the library's list. At least I know someone there is waiting for it.



Last Edited on: 8/10/15 9:31 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 8/10/2015 8:42 PM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2007
Posts: 2,401
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Everything I've posted to the WL in the past six months has been requested quickly, only a couple have gone through more than one or two wishers.

OTOH, I had a book requested from me yesterday that had been in my shelf for years. But it was on WL hold at first, strange but maybe their whole account was on hold and it was on their WL and then they had no credits when they took their account off hold.  I didn't accept it last night because I wanted to check it in 'daylight' but today the request had been cancelled. Too bad, because I was going to offer them a 2 for 1 deal for any other older books on my shelf and the book they originally wanted was in pristine condition considering its vintage.

Date Posted: 8/10/2015 9:53 PM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,253
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Why bother trying to add to a system when any meaningful percentage rolls over or times out.. Mostly I buy my newly issued books and use to post them. Now, they can just go to my library because I usually finish in a few days.They are still best sellers and on the library's list. At least I know someone there is waiting for it.

I totally understand the frustration of having to wait while a book rolls thru a member or two before being requested! Having said that, the viability of PBS is totally dependent on having books that members want available to them...someone is waiting for them here too! Unfortunately there might be a dormant account or two ahead of a member who wants the book, has the credits for it and is eager to request it. IMO, choosing to not put WL books into the system is only going to hurt members who do want the books. It seems as though you are taking your frustrations with TPTB out instead on the members of PBS...and that is hurting all of us. That attitude is contributing to the eventual demise of PBS, a demise that I am dreading.

Date Posted: 8/11/2015 12:53 AM ET
Member Since: 1/25/2010
Posts: 2,906
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I have no problem with the FIFO system for WL books (though the directed delivery unbalances the available-in-system titles with no real benefit), it seems to be working fine for me, both incoming and outgoing. I don't remember the last time a WL book rolled into an available-in-system book when I posted it, let alone encounter it enough to penalize perfectly decent members for not using the Auto-Request feature. The immediate gratification mind-set is really off-putting to me. If they allowed excluding members from requests based on Auto vs 48 hour, I'd hope that they would also offer an option to skip members using that feature as well. I hope they don't do either, and it would be a terrible idea if they did, but if they allow the one it  would only be fair to allow members to skip members that use any feature they don't personally like.

-edited to add a missed preposition-



Last Edited on: 8/11/15 12:54 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/11/2015 1:05 AM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 736
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Sally,

I have no wish to hurt members and have been here since 2008. Businesses which fail to address customer frustration typically do not thrive. It is a business' responsibility to address changing needs. PBS chose to implement changes by instituting paid membership. It is incumbent on them to address the effect those changes produced, not a customer's responsibility to endure frustration caused by the changes made to their business model. If PBS chooses to ignore the effect dormant accounts have on their business model, it may contribute to their demise. So far, it appears they are aware and unconcerned on how this effects their customer. Perhaps their concern is not long term viability but short term over representation of membership numbers. Short term thinking is certainly not unheard of in the business world but eventually the roosters come home to roost.  Only time will tell if their judgement is correct.
 

Date Posted: 8/11/2015 1:28 PM ET
Member Since: 9/25/2008
Posts: 3,626
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I don't think this is a new issue as it was a problem before the paid memberships. There have been abandoned or dormant accounts since I joined. Although it could just be a case that they are not interested in the book anymore.

A wishlist book I recently posted went through at least 12 members before it was accepted. Two of the members that didn't respond were Standard Members. The one who accepted was a la carte. The book was wishlisted in 2011, so there was a good chance that the book it was already acquired from elsewhere. The system worked the way it was intended and about half didn't let it time out. Most members of this site just log on when they are either posting or accepting a book.

I think it would have been unfair to the member I sent the book that he would have been skipped because it was not on autorequest.

 

Date Posted: 8/11/2015 2:37 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 736
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"The system worked the way it was intended and about half didn't let it time out"

If  the system finds it is acceptable that 50% of wishlist requests roll over with no response, I believe the system has a problem. Perhaps the cause is only partially dormant accounts. How about 2 roll overs in a row and your account is put on hold? If there is no reactivation in 3 months account suspended. It is really not very draconian to expect people to respond to requests. Yes, life happens, so you get a freebie, at the second instance you are on hold. Reactive the account when your life get back together. The issue has solutions and the failure to address issues has consequences.

 



Last Edited on: 8/11/15 5:36 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/11/2015 3:39 PM ET
Member Since: 8/17/2008
Posts: 8,375
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Mostly I buy my newly issued books and use to post them. Now, they can just go to my library because I usually finish in a few days.They are still best sellers and on the library's list. At least I know someone there is waiting for it.

Mary, if your library system circulates books donated by patrons, that's highly unusual.  Most commonly, donated books are sold in Friends of the Library sales.  I'm sure attendees of your library's book sales appreciate buying the books you donate

Date Posted: 8/11/2015 4:08 PM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2008
Posts: 2,658
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I don't think I would agree that pbs is a business. The points made about responding to customers and such are valid ideas but I don't think they apply to pbs. Pbs is a collection of members. The members don't usually interact with pbs. They interact among themselves.

Date Posted: 8/11/2015 4:09 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 736
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Valerie,

My library only accepts books for circulation. The requirement is they must be on one the the current week's NY Times best seller list, otherwise they do not accept the book. I've been in town 30 years and the Library has never had a friend of the library sale. It is not something done in my area. So perhaps, I am time sensitive because if, I wait a few weeks for the PBS system the book I could have donated may no longer be on the NY Times best seller list and hence unacceptable for donation.

Date Posted: 8/11/2015 5:29 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 736
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I don't think I would agree that pbs is a business

Perhaps that use to be the case. The 3 levels of membership structure with variable fees and access limitations  ended in my mind any idea this was other than a business and as such it should succeed or fail as any business does on the basis of the value it provides. As they say, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it is probably a duck!!!



Last Edited on: 8/11/15 5:31 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 8/11/2015 8:31 PM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,253
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Mary, you obviously have a bee in your bonnet about this -- why not address PBS directly with this? This is a members forum, PBS does not monitor this forum. None of us can do anything about this.

As I've said before, IMO, your approach to your concerns is depriving members of books, members who are posting books, including wish listed books, in good faith that other members are doing the same. By not doing so you are encouraging others to follow your example. You state you are time sensitive because your library only accepts books on the NY Times best seller list. I can guarantee you that there will be members here at PBS wishing for those books long after they have dropped off the NY Times best seller list. Of course you can do as you please but personally I find it trying reading about your new, WL books that you are NOT posting here because not everybody has their WL on automatic request so you can mail the book the next day. PBS is not about convenience, it is about sharing books. I am sure TPTB will be more interested in how you think PBS should be run than I am.

zeke68 -
Date Posted: 8/11/2015 9:00 PM ET
Member Since: 10/30/2008
Posts: 2,810
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I don't think I would agree that pbs is a business.

PBS was a community.  Once they started charging membership fees, and pitted members against each other, they became a business.

I agree that the dormant accounts can be a nuisance.  But they have been a nuisance since I joined in 2008.  It's nothing new with the paid memberships.  PBS puts dormant accounts on hold after a set number of missed transactions, we just aren't privy to that number.  The other trading site I belong to gives members 2 missed transactions before they are put on hold.

Mary, I agree with Sally that you are punishing members by your refusal to post WL books, but they're your books and you can do whatever you want with them.

Cathy A. (Cathy) - ,
Date Posted: 8/11/2015 10:47 PM ET
Member Since: 12/27/2005
Posts: 4,124
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How about 2 roll overs in a row and your account is put on hold?

Great news! The system has worked this way for years! Members who ignore wish list offers have their accounts put on hold and no further books are requested for them, even if they're on auto-request. To reactivate their accounts, these members have to login and agree to respond to future offers and then manually remove the hold.

Ms K. (MsK) -
Date Posted: 8/14/2015 3:31 PM ET
Member Since: 10/1/2005
Posts: 119
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I have 450 books on my wishlist. All but 5 are auto requested, around 100-150 have been on my list for more than 3 years. I'm patient. The ones I've added recently are usually duplicates of titles also on my wishlist.  Many many of my WL books are books that haven't been posted in the system in a long time or never posted. PBS taught me patience.... that & the TBR mountain range next to my bed.

If you don't post WL'd books, than people like me who may be #5 or #55 on the list won't enjoy the book you are willing to share/release. I'm willing to wait via FIFO, so I will wait until you share your books.

Date Posted: 8/14/2015 7:27 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2008
Posts: 736
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Ms. K.

Guess we would never have an issue as I first look to see if a wishlist book is on auto request. Hope to send you a book some day. I did not start this thread, but just registered my view. The consensus by other posters indicate they estimate a minimum of 25% to perhaps as high as 50% of wish list request are rolled over without response. Some posters have recorded in this thread as many as 12 failures to respond. This is what I take exception to. I do not believe family emergency etc... can explain away a 25% to 50 % failure rate. I have adjusted my behavior to the present reality. If the reality changes, I will adjust my behavior. I do post wish listed book if the site indicates auto request.



Last Edited on: 8/14/15 7:37 PM ET - Total times edited: 3
Date Posted: 8/15/2015 9:31 AM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2008
Posts: 2,658
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A change I would like would be wish list holds to see if member has credits lasting only 24 hours instead of 48 hrs. It might make the rollovers take less time.

Date Posted: 8/15/2015 9:47 AM ET
Member Since: 6/2/2014
Posts: 8,024
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I have to be honest..I joined before paid memberships and still ha books rolling over, some no marking received etc.. I don't see any differences except time outs..I have more now when I try and load pages. I've also noticed more people wanting to rip the proverbial head off others because they're angry at pbs. As far as the other things, in my case it's the same.
Ms K. (MsK) -
Date Posted: 8/16/2015 10:00 AM ET
Member Since: 10/1/2005
Posts: 119
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Mary K (I like your username!), my comment wasn't directed at you, but an in-general comment. You aren't the only one who has a problem with no response requests & timing out. I understand that. My "challenge" (not problem) is for those of us who are further down the list, perhaps #3 or #8... we miss out on books we truly want.  And I understand your "challenge" when you want to post a book and have to wait for a member to accept the book you are posting.  You want to mail that book now when you have the time to get to the post office. You might be leaving on vacation or a business trip or have a family emergency... You can't keep waiting for someone to request the book and chance getting penalized for not mailing a book in time. I "get it" because life happens to all of us.

Is there a solution that is fair for all of us? Auto-request only? How many points should I have in my account when I go on vacation? I have 450 books on my wishlist, many oddball ones that may never come up, but occasionally do. I usually have a good number of points, but would it be enough for a longish trip without access to email or internet?

What about members who have a variety of abilities, disabilities and responsibilities that make regular check-ins challenging, but who want/need books to read or share? Would you want to lose your membership because for six or more months you had to take care of a series of family or community emergencies? Yes, some of us coordinate our responsibilities a little more smoothly than others, but I know that there are others who have "shoes" that I would have a hard time walking in.  My dad's quote to me when I was growing up was, "I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet."

I'm now going to step down off my soapbox and drift away to my bookshelves.

 

Date Posted: 8/16/2015 11:27 AM ET
Member Since: 6/2/2014
Posts: 8,024
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I think some members want to post a book at 1:00 and by 1:01 have it accepted. Just like some members accept a book at 1:00 and expect it mailed at 1:01. You can't please everyone and they're expectations.
Date Posted: 8/16/2015 1:11 PM ET
Member Since: 3/3/2009
Posts: 93
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Interesting; I don't think I've ever posted a wishlisted book that didn't get accepted, although it occasionally cycles through a couple of people. It doesn't make any difference to me whether it gets accepted immediately or takes a week, as long as it goes out. I've become less willing to post books that I think might take years if ever to get requested, but wishlisted books are a great bet.



Last Edited on: 8/16/15 1:12 PM ET - Total times edited: 1