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Topic: I wonder

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Subject: I wonder
Date Posted: 4/27/2010 8:06 AM ET
Member Since: 2/9/2010
Posts: 154
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I wonder....

I sent a book recently using USPS DC (not PBS). The book was marked as delivered about
a week ago. This morning I noted that it was still not marked recieved, so I sent a "friendly PM" asking about it. Within 10 minutes the book was marked received.

I'm sure it was an oversight and my PM jogged their memory.

BUT...whatif...

I send the book as described, the person receiving it noted DC and assumed I had already
gotten my credit. What would happen if they let it sit and let it "go lost". Would they
get their credit back - along with the "free" book.

I figure it's easier to ask than search thru the rules.

wc

Date Posted: 4/27/2010 8:18 AM ET
Member Since: 2/19/2009
Posts: 692
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If you sent the book with DC purchased elsewhere and it has been recorded as delivered by USPS but hasn't been marked received yet:

  • First, contact the requestor from the active transaction (in the Books I've Mailed tab in My Account), or from the "lost" transaction in your Transaction Archive if the book has been declared Lost in the Mail by PBS.
  • If the requestor does not respond to your PM within a few days, contact us and we will look into it.
  • We cannot grant credit for DC purchased outside PBS, but we can check if this requestor has become inactive.
  • If this requestor is inactive, your book should be marked received by the system.
Date Posted: 4/27/2010 8:40 AM ET
Member Since: 2/9/2010
Posts: 154
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Found the answer:

 

If a book you requested does not arrive by the 26th day (the 35th day if the sender or requestor is outside the contiguous US) after it was marked mailed, it will be declared lost in the mail at PBS. The requestor does not mark the book Lost; the system does this. 

The requestor will get credit back...

 

Hmmmm

Date Posted: 4/27/2010 9:13 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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If someone made a habit of this-PBS would get rid of them pretty quickly. 

Date Posted: 4/27/2010 11:29 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,171
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Hhmmmmm. . . . I've entertained that same wonder Wayne.

Date Posted: 4/27/2010 12:01 PM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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What would happen if they let it sit and let it "go lost". Would they get their credit back - along with the "free" book.

That's exactly what would happen.  Unfortunately this site does not take DC other than their own as proof of delivery.  I know people will say that DC isn't really proof of delivery, but I suspect that rarely does a book get marked as delivered when it wasn't, or was delivered to a neighbor.  This is just one of the rules on this site that doesn't favor the people sending books in good faith.

Date Posted: 4/27/2010 12:21 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,171
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"...rules on this site that doesn't favor the people sending books in good faith"   I'd respectfully disagree with that opinion Kate.  The bottom line, if you do not use PBS DC, this site has no way to track your book transactions.  Can't not Won't.  If the DC number is generated through PBS, their system interacts with USPS to issue the  DC numbers,track those same numbers, transfer credits when scanned, & has record of Delivery scans.  If you purchase DC elsewhere, this information is NOT available to PBS.



Last Edited on: 4/27/10 12:30 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/27/2010 12:25 PM ET
Member Since: 4/7/2008
Posts: 15,690
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It's also a matter of economics. PBS gets a fee when members buy PBS DC and that's how they pay for the credits when books go lost (when a book goes lost, both the sender and the requestor gets a credit and PBS must cover that credit with something.)

If PBS guaranteed the credit for everybody that used DC purchased elsewhere, there wouldn't be any incentive for people to buy PBS DC, which is one of the ways the site earns some money. The site is already free to use for members but it doesn't maintain itself out of air so it makes total sense that the only way for PBS to guarantee a credit is when members pay a fee for it.

Also, we know that a lot of books are marked 'delivered' when they get to the PO and get really delivered a few days later so it wouldn't be fair to use that as proof to give anybody credit. What would happen with RWAPs then?



Last Edited on: 4/27/10 12:28 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/27/2010 12:31 PM ET
Member Since: 2/9/2010
Posts: 154
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The issue isn't PBS DC vs. other DC. It is the fact that the rules make it possible for someone to ignore the fact that a book has arrived, let it "go missing" (and get their credit back) AND keep the book.

The good news is that 99% of PBS citizens play fair. But, don't you wonder when you KNOW the book has been deliverd over a week ago and still no acknowlegement from the recipient.?

That is far beyond whether or not you got your credit - the scam could be used with PBS DC just as easily as with no DC...or is everyone saying, "It doesn't matter as long as I get my Credit!"?

Date Posted: 4/27/2010 12:40 PM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
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But how do you KNOW Wayne? DC, whether generated through PBS or not, is still not the most reliable thing in the world. Maybe, as D.G. said, it was sitting at the post office for that week. 

Honestly though, why worry about it? If you use PBS DC you will already have your credit, you aren't loosing out on anything. Why waste time worrying about whether or not the receiver is trying to cheat the system? This is a problem for the site owners to deal with, and frankly I'm pretty sure they already have a system in place. Why would they set something up that could be so easily cheated if they weren't monitoring it for such activity?



Last Edited on: 4/27/10 12:43 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/27/2010 1:38 PM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,599
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Wayne wrote:

The issue isn't PBS DC vs. other DC. It is the fact that the rules make it possible for someone to ignore the fact that a book has arrived, let it "go missing" (and get their credit back) AND keep the book.

As others said, A) you have no proof it was actually delivered to that person. I keep giving this example, but we used to have a mailman substitute that I swear was dyslexic--he would deliver my books to my neighbor in an apt. with numbers like mine, but jumbled up. So my books were scanned "delivered." But I didn't have them. Fortunately my neighbor was honest and brought them to me, but if he hadn't, it would have "looked" like I got the books and was just withholding marking them received, although that was obviously not the case. B) PBS is not going to allow someone to abuse the system like that for long. If someone has had several books that they never marked received, they would have their account flagged and then be suspended or closed if it continued.

You're right though, a great majority of people here are honest, and 99% of transactions are smooth and problem-free, at least in my experience. I don't personally think DC is a 'necessity' at all--sent hundreds of books without any form of tracking and they got to where they were going with no problems.

Cheryl

Date Posted: 4/27/2010 2:55 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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But, don't you wonder when you KNOW the book has been deliverd over a week ago and still no acknowlegement from the recipient.?

There is no way to KNOW unless you are watching them get their mail.

Yes, there are people who will do what you suggest. They don't last long on PBS. PBS is the one who eats the credit refund in the Credit Guarantee situation so they are not going to let a member steal from their pockets for very long.

 

As for using a delilvery scan as proof of delivery, I will no longer buy anything from eBay since I found out that is how things are handled there. I won't do business with companies that believe I should be charged for something I did not get because of a postal scan and I would feel the same about PBS. I was completely appauled when I found out that because a package from eBay was scanned delivered I had to pay for it even though I didn't get it. Yes, it seems unfair that a sender in good faith cannot be believed, but I really don't think it would be more fair to disbelieve a receiver and charge them for something they say they didn't get based on a scan from the PO that is known to be faulty. That is where Credit Assurance comes in, but that obviously cannot be provided for free. 

Date Posted: 4/27/2010 3:36 PM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
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Ugh, Melanie, that is terrible. I knew putting DC on the books I sell at half.com was a good way to cover my own butt, but I guess I never put two and two together that it could bite me on the receiving end. Good to know.

Date Posted: 4/27/2010 6:39 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Not all PBS+DC get scanned.  I mailed out 2 books together.  DH put them in the blue box in front of the pharmacy.  It doesn't get emptied every day.  But it's a long way to the main PO.  So I put PBS  DC on them.  But half the time books never get scanned - even to deliver.  One book was scanned in at the distribution center.  The other hasn't been scanned anywhere.  Probably won't be if my luck stays the same.  It's annoying.  And I wouldn't buy from eBay either under those circumstances.  The USPS frequently doesn't scan DC's.

Ruth

Date Posted: 4/27/2010 10:12 PM ET
Member Since: 4/16/2008
Posts: 770
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I have never used DC at the post office (why bother with creditAssurance using PBS-DC?)  Is the cost really that different?  I'm not trying to be snarky.  I'm just wondering why some people will buy DC at the PO and not on the site?  I really am curious about the cost difference.  Personally, I don't mind using DC or printable postage because it helps maintain this website.  (I even bought into box o books, and even though I've barely used it, I figure the money I paid supports a good cause.)

As for the books being marked delivered and not marked receieved, with my work hours not matching the PO hours (we don't have a home delivery option) there are weeks I only get to the PO on Saturday.  If a book is scanned delivered on a Monday there's not a thing I can do about it until Saturday.  Do I think that makes me a bad swapper?  Nope.  I buy postage through PBS and I drop it in the blue box. My books are always mailed on time and within minutes of printing because the blue box is around the corner.  It takes me all of 3 minutes to walk there.   

I'm really sorry that I can't get my books sooner, but there's no way I can when I leave the house at 7 am and don't come home til 6pm. (and no, I'm not the one the OP was talking about ;) Even though I sound REALLY guilty  )  In my situation, it just can't be done!

I recently had a book that was marked delivered on a Friday and it wasn't in my box on Saturday morning.  After bringing the info to the postmaster a few days later (sure was nice to have a day off!) it was found on a table in the back.  It was misplaced. 

Stuff happens and we all have different situations.  Some things are out of our control.  I think it would take far too much thought and effort to cheat the system. 

I'm not trying to sound like a witch.  I'm just trying to show that there may be a variety of reasons that things can happen.  :)

Now I shall step down from my soap-box.  :)

Subject: Some don't purchase online
Date Posted: 4/28/2010 3:41 PM ET
Member Since: 4/28/2009
Posts: 9,565
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JMO----Identity theft, credit card fraud, etc is the reason many people don't/won't purchase merchandise, credits, postage, or DC from a website. Once you've been scammed you become very paranoid about giving anyone your checking acct or credit/debit card info.

  Last week my 19 year old daughter at college just got scammed out of $500 plus the $50 she paid to Western Union to send the money for a product. Unfortunately, she didn't listen to mom's advice before placing the order and did only a halfway job of checking out the source beforehand. You hate to say "live and learn" cause we should be able to learn from others' misfortunes.

Date Posted: 4/28/2010 4:42 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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Is the cost really that different?  I'm not trying to be snarky.  I'm just wondering why some people will buy DC at the PO and not on the site?  I really am curious about the cost difference.

To answer Karen's question, DC is actually cheaper through PBS as long as you are transfering money into your account in larger chunks so that the 0.50 transaction fee isn't all on one book.

  • USPS retail DC 0.80 postage
  • PBS-DC only 0.19 eDC postage+ 0.27 fee = 0.46 cost
  • PBS full postage: 0.19 eDC postage + 0.43 fee = 0.62 cost

So, ignoring the 0.50 transaction fee to put money into your PBS account, you are getting it at least 0.18 per book cheaper on PBS. If you are using full postage and only transferring $5 a time, you will probably pay more per book in fees.

Most people who are getting it outside of PBS are not buying it at the counter though, they get it through PayPal where there is no fee, just the 0.19 eDC postage cost.

Shelly -
Date Posted: 4/28/2010 5:06 PM ET
Member Since: 11/13/2009
Posts: 3,036
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That is far beyond whether or not you got your credit - the scam could be used with PBS DC just as easily as with no DC...or is everyone saying, "It doesn't matter as long as I get my Credit!"?

For me, no, I don't really care if they mark it received because I pay for the PBS DC to get my credit. I figure for the little bit extra I pay for it, it means that it is PBS headache to figure out who is scamming for free books instead of me. I know I'm playing by the rules. Does it upset me that others don't? Yes, but I trust PBS to weed those out.

 

ETA: Don't sweat the small things!!



Last Edited on: 4/28/10 5:10 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/29/2010 5:27 PM ET
Member Since: 4/16/2008
Posts: 770
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Thanks, Melanie!

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 4/29/2010 5:56 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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PBS really DOES monitor the amount of books that are not marked Received and that go "Lost" on an account.  My account was inactivated when I'd ordered about six books in the same series from the same Sender, and they never got to me.    When I got those 6 "Lost" strikes on my account, I had to contact PBS to reactivate my account.  (Sender marked as mailed but no DC, and subsequently had account closed for inactivity, I believe.)

Date Posted: 4/29/2010 6:53 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,325
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And on the other side of things, I mailed a book at the beginning of the month.  I had a hunch that the requestor might have abandoned her account, and I sent a PM asking if it had arrived, but didn't get a reply.

I got a system e-mail yesterday that it had been received.  I checked my transactions archive, and under "details" found this:

Date Mailed: 4/2/2010 8:01 PM ET
Date Received: 4/28/2010 3:16 AM ET

Since the time is just after 3 a.m. eastern time, it means that it was likely marked received by the PBS server, probably due to the requestor not logging in for a while. 

Nice to see how smoothly that worked -- I didn't have to contact the admin team about it.



Last Edited on: 4/29/10 6:54 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/29/2010 7:46 PM ET
Member Since: 4/21/2007
Posts: 304
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I have to say a member lost out on her credit from me or 6 months. It happens. I have a flawless trading record at other sites and am an excellent trader. Stuff happens. My computer died. I didn''t have the money to fix it and sever ilness kept me from getting to a computer. I know, I know there are people who will say "How, this day in age could that possibly happen" Well, trust me it can and for perfectly legitamate reasons. After 6 months I was in a position to get back online. The first thing I did was come to this site. I sent her her credit apologized and explained as best I could.I wasn't certain what kind of response I would get. I was ready for her to be angry and rightfully so. She couldn't have been more lovely. She thanked me. She said "things happen" and she and her husband were just thrilled to have the credit and that he had already ordered a book.

You just don't know until you know.