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Topic: workbook conditions...

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Subject: workbook conditions...
Date Posted: 6/24/2008 1:31 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2005
Posts: 87
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I asked this on another forum but I thought I would get a much broader reply to this question.  I have been collecting workbook resources for my kids school curriculum.  I have in fact gotten a fair number of great books to use and repost.  But I just had a really awful run.  I seem to be getting lots of workbooks now with the pages torn out and stuck back in or the binding actually separating and one is a bit water damaged (maybe from a science type experiment).  Do these books have different posting guidlines?  I have already done a received with a problem on 2 of them and did not request my credits back for them since I can use them, but this is getting a bit on the ridiculous side.  I have 6 now that are completely unpostable by the normal guidelines.  Or do these just not fall under the normal guidlines.  This is a lot of workbooks to have to offer free when I paid a credit for each.  Thanks for your input....

Tricia

Date Posted: 6/24/2008 2:28 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2005
Posts: 87
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after rereading the book condition guildlines I only see info about highlighting and writing being OK as long as the condition is agreed upon through a pm.  Nothing about torn out pages.  So, in this case when you ask for a credit back, how would you do it?  I always hate asking for a credit back.  I always think it sounds snarky and I want to be nice about it. 

 

Date Posted: 6/24/2008 3:47 PM ET
Member Since: 2/28/2007
Posts: 2,164
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I would actually say that you could debate whether a workbook is the same as a textbook, which is what that guidline refers to.  Regardless, torn pages and water damage are not okay even in textbooks.  So, yes, you should absolutely ask for your credits back.  I've done it, and here is how I've worded it:

Dear X:  I'd like to thank you for taking the time to send me this book.  However, I have some concerns with the condition that the book is in.  It contains significant [writing, highlighting] which makes the book unpostable.  I realize that maybe this book falls under the guidelines for textbooks, however, the PBS help center states that the recipient is to be contacted about the book condition prior to sending.  If I had been contacted, I would not have wanted a book in this condition.  Therefore, I'd like to ask for my credit back.

I'd modify that if the damage is water damage or torn/missing pages since those books are never postable.  In that instance, I would say:

Dear X:  I'd like to thank you for taking the time to send me this book.  However, I have some concerns with the condition that the book is in.  It contains significant [water damage, torn pages] which makes the book unpostable.  Therefore, I'd like to ask for my credit back.

Date Posted: 6/24/2008 5:08 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,183
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I would actually say that you could debate whether a workbook is the same as a textbook, - Actually it is not debatable. If you read the exception it clearly states textbook or workbook.

 

 

  • writing or highlighting on the text pages is NOT OKAY
    • Exception: if it is a textbook or workbook, these are expected to have highlighting/underlining/writing
      • if you post a textbook/workbook, the condition must be described to the requestor in a Personal Message
      • AND the described condition MUST BE AGREED TO before the book is sent
      • This is the one of the ONLY two cases in which a PM exchange about a book is required before the book can be sent(the other is for cookbooks--see below).

     

     

    Textbooks/workbooks need to meet the other PBS guidelines besides writing/or highlighting. Any damage that falls under the exception must be agreed upon prior to sending the book. You are well within your rights to ask for your credit back. Thank them for sending the book, but it does not PBS guidelines and as it is,  its not useful to you. You would like your credit back so that you may order a useable copy of the book. If they would like this copy back, they need to send you your credit plus postage (per the help documents) or send you an additional  credit to cover the cost of mailing.

    Don't feel guilty about asking for you credit back. They sent something they should not have. PLEASE make sure to mark all of these as RWP. If you don't, and don't say anything to these senders, they will think it is ok to send the books like that and when someone down the line complains, they will say no one else had a problem with it. If they fix the transaction to your satisfaction, then say thank you and tell them you are going to mark it resolved. If they don't tell them that you will mark it as unresolved.

     



  • Last Edited on: 6/24/08 5:17 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
    Subject: Underlining
    Date Posted: 6/30/2008 1:01 AM ET
    Member Since: 6/26/2008
    Posts: 1
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    I guess I am confused about why underlining is a problem in the books that a person is receiving.  I have trouble understanding why such a stringent guideline was made.  Having a guideline that totally prohibits underlining in a book I'm sure keeps totally unreadable books from being swapped, but this is a used book site.  I have seen colleges take books with significant amounts of underlining.  I don't think it's that big of a deal and I think the recipient of the book should be grateful, personally.  Otherwise, there is always the option of buying the book new.  I think having stringent guidelines keeps people from swapping more books that may be totally fine to read.

     

    I also think that asking for your credit back is a little tacky.  I think you have to take your chances with this site.  To blacklist a sender with an RWP really keeps people from sending good, out-of-print books to people.  The only guidelines regarding water damage should be that the water damage doesn't obscure the print of the book and that no pages are ripped out of the book.  If people are requesting books to collect them, then they should cough up the dough and buy the book.  Also, transactions typically refer to financial events.  We have co-opted accounting terms to refer to sharing that takes place on a site for free.  I don't think calling a book swap a "transaction" is keeping with the community feeling of the site.  If you want to make sure the "transaction" is to your satisfaction, maybe you're better off at amazon.com.

     

    Date Posted: 6/30/2008 1:51 AM ET
    Member Since: 8/16/2007
    Posts: 15,183
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    If you want to make sure the "transaction" is to your satisfaction, maybe you're better off at amazon.com. We don't need to go to amazon.com to make sure someone is sending us satisfactory books because PBS sets up guidelines to make sure we can expect a certain standard of books. If you want a site that will let you post whatever you want to, there are other sites that allow you to do that and list the condition. PBS prefers to set minimum requirements on their books so they can utilize a first in first out system. Most of us here would rather have some assurance the book we get it readable and not moldy that worry about those few rare books that might not get posting because they are in less than quality condition. If we want them that bad, we'll check the sites that allow those books to be posted. To expect people to pay a $3.45 credit without any idea of the quality of book they will be getting is ludicrous.

    I also think that asking for your credit back is a little tacky. Tacky is sending out books that are not up to standards and expecting someone to just accept it since you wanted to send it.



    Last Edited on: 6/30/08 9:34 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
    Date Posted: 6/30/2008 6:37 AM ET
    Member Since: 7/31/2007
    Posts: 2,689
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    I second everything Melanie said (btw...you said that very well)

    Raina said, "We have co-opted accounting terms to refer to sharing that takes place on a site for free." 

    I'm sorry Raina but, while membership doesn't cost this site is not Free....I pay postage on every book I send in order to get a credit that allows me to obtain a book so, yes that is a transaction.  And the guidelines here are not what I would deem stringent...to me they are exactly what they should b.

    Date Posted: 6/30/2008 8:18 AM ET
    Member Since: 8/27/2007
    Posts: 3,326
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    If a text book is anything other than "like new" the sender should PM the receiver with the condition BEFORE mailing and let them know what the issues are.  I've send out many workbooks, most like new, but some with a page or two that had been worked (in pencil; then erased) and at least one where all the answer pages had been removed (on the dotted line) but were reinserted and kept in place with a paperclip.  In every case where I sent a PM, the requestor gladly accepted the condition of the books.

    I'd say all of the books in the OP except the water-damaged book are repostable under the guidelines of text/work books IF a PM is sent to the requestor outlining the issues. Let them decide.

    Date Posted: 6/30/2008 10:06 AM ET
    Member Since: 5/10/2007
    Posts: 5,526
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    Raina, I see that you are a new member and while we all know this is a used book site, it can be very distracting to read a book with underlining or highlighting or whatever.  Granted, textbooks/workbooks/cookbooks fall into a slightly different category and PBS has allowed for this as long as the sender PM's the receiver after acceptance to make sure they are aware of the condition.  Most don't expect "like new" workbooks but just want to know if pages are torn out or whatever.

    because the sender did not PM her as the receiver, they broke the rules of PBS and she would be within her right to ask for her credit back.  Would she get it back?  maybe yes maybe no. 

    And while the overall site is free to use, we paid a price to purchase the books we send out and the postage on top of that.  So it isn't 100% free.

    Date Posted: 6/30/2008 4:26 PM ET
    Member Since: 7/7/2007
    Posts: 4,815
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    Raina--

    <<I think having stringent guidelines keeps people from swapping more books that may be totally fine to read. 
    I also think that asking for your credit back is a little tacky.  I think you have to take your chances with this site.
    >>

    You are, respectfully, incorrect.  There are other book swapping sites available whose criteria are less stringent, and those who seek to trade books which don't meet PBS' standards may swap them there.  Asking for your credit back is NOT tacky, it is both appropriate and recommended under the PBS guidelines.  That's the whole point of our guidelines, so you do not have to "take your chances" here.  Perhaps, once you've had more than 3 days membership, you will better understand :-)

    Tricia--

    You should both mark the damaged books as RWP and request your credit back, as is appropriate.  Asking for your credit back is a personal choice, but marking damaged books RWP is not, as it is part of the system designed to weed out problem swappers, novices who don't understand the rules or those who feel the rules should not apply to them :-)

    Cheers,

    Catt

    Date Posted: 6/30/2008 6:19 PM ET
    Member Since: 9/18/2005
    Posts: 6,952
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    I guess I am confused about why underlining is a problem in the books that a person is receiving...  Having a guideline that totally prohibits underlining in a book I'm sure keeps totally unreadable books from being swapped, but this is a used book site.  I have seen colleges take books with significant amounts of underlining.  I don't think it's that big of a deal and I think the recipient of the book should be grateful, personally.

    But see, these books aren't prohibited...they simply have guidelines attached to them.  It's not that they can't be swapped...we all know that a college textbook or workbook might have underlining in it.  However, where the guideline comes in is that all you have to do is send a PM regarding the condition of the book and what hihglighting and underlining there might be.  That's it.  No big deal, if you are willing to comply with the rules of the site.   Most ARE grateful to get a book that is that expensive in good condition.  But without the PM, you assume the book has no underlining....which may not be true.

    However, pages that are coming out (or have been taken out and sild back in) are a clear violation of BASIC PBS rules, not just the textbook guidelines.  So therefore it is NOT tacky to ask for your credit back.



    Last Edited on: 7/1/08 5:24 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
    patticom - ,
    Date Posted: 7/2/2008 3:24 AM ET
    Member Since: 11/3/2007
    Posts: 416
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    I agree with Raina but from the opposite point of view.  ;)  Rather than allowing writing or underlining or highlighting indiscriminately, I believe the ban against it should apply to ALL books.  I sent a workbook once and forgot about the PM step, being the first one I'd ever sent out that had any writing in it.  The person asked for their credit back, and I gave it back, and mentioned that I wouldn't list that type of book anymore (because IMHO it's just not worth the risk--school books are expensive!).  (The person was insulting and angry and never did mark it resolved, but oh well I did everything *I* could to make it right!)  I was annoyed that I was out a credit, but it was my own fault and problem resolved as far as I was concerned... it was a good learning experience, I thought, because it taught me not to do that!  :)  Anything that disrupts or complicates the simplicity of bookin-bookout trades is just not worth the hassle!!  (There's a bazaar for more complicated trades, if/when you have the time and inclination to mess with that!)  Just my 2c, fwiw!  :)

    As for the OP, unfortunately with the current system the only way you can ensure you get just what you want on workbooks is to PM the person yourself... that way you don't have to worry that they might forget that step, forcing both of you to go through the hassle of requesting your credit back etc.  I won't ever request them either for that reason--too complicated!  My advise is to go through the bazaar, or shop thrift sales and homeschool sales, etc. where you can see it or communicate easily first without having to work so hard at it!!  :)