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Topic: Am I wrong to want a credit back for this book?

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Subject: Am I wrong to want a credit back for this book?
Date Posted: 5/2/2011 8:01 PM ET
Member Since: 2/28/2009
Posts: 27
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This book arrived recently and the staining likely contributed to the odor of the book, strong enough that I can't keep it and won't read it.  The sender said it wasn't liquid stained, but pages were discolored with age and she would only refund my credit if I paid return shipping.  I won't do that, as then I'm out shipping and have nothing to show for it even though I wasn't the one who listed against club rules here.

Anyway I decided to waste my time and scan the book to prove my point (it's frustrating to be assumed to be lying).  Am I wrong to want my credit back on this and not be expected to pay return shipping?

http://s1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee517/stainedimmortal/

If the book smelled better, I'd overlook the staining, but since it stinks, I had to acknowledge the staining, as it's unkeepable. 

Rant over, thanks!

Date Posted: 5/2/2011 8:06 PM ET
Member Since: 9/8/2009
Posts: 619
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Woah, those are some mighty fierce water (or something) stains.  You'd be well within your rights to RWAP and, yes, I'd ask for the credit back.  Send her the pictures of the book to back up what you're saying... Maybe she'll have a change of heart.

Date Posted: 5/2/2011 8:07 PM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2007
Posts: 1,410
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You definitely have staining.  It looks like there was some liquid damage.  That's RWAP material.

 

Unfortunately, smell isn't a postability issue.  If you have an issue with smell, you'll need to put an RC on your requests.

Date Posted: 5/2/2011 8:12 PM ET
Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,995
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I second Kath. That is disgusting.

You are also not required to send a book back as a condition of getting your credit back. If they insist on having that piece of crap back, you must first agree to it, and then be compensated up front: one credit return for the unpostable book, and one credit (or whatever you agree to) to compensate for return postage.

I'd just tell them to read the help docs and become familiar with the actual posting guidelines for this site, tell them return credit by XXX date, or the transaction will be marked unresolved, which will flag their account.



Last Edited on: 5/2/11 8:14 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/2/2011 8:14 PM ET
Member Since: 6/26/2006
Posts: 2,585
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Hey there Roger, 

If you haven't done so already, you would want to mark the book as RWAP (recieved with a problem).  Books that have liquid damage are not allowed to be swapped.  

You are in the right to request a credit back, and if the other member wants the book back, it is THEIR responsibility to pay you for the return shipping.  

As per the help docs, this book falls into the Official Problem category:

Damaged by Sender

  • This means the book appears to have been unacceptable for swapping at PBS before it was put in the mail
  • This includes books that originally came with MEDIA materials - if the MEDIA materials do not accompany the book or are nonfunctioning the book is "damaged by sender".
  • This includes books packaged using tape applied to the book if the book is damaged and rendered unrepostable by opening the package.

 

A book is considered Sender-Damaged if it does not meet PBS criteria for good condition, or if tape was applied directly to the bookand the book was rendered unrepostable by opening the package because of the tape.

  • Books are not expected to be new or like-new at PBS
  • They do have to meet PBS Book Condition Criteria for 'Swappability' at PBS, though, to be posted for swapping here.
    • Note: the DUST JACKET does not have to be included with a book at all, unless the requestor had this in their Requestor Conditions.  So DUST JACKET condition cannot be considered as part of the condition of a book, unless there were Requestor Conditions on the request specifying that the dust jacket be included.
    • Note: the textbook and cookbook exceptions as described in Book Condition Criteria for 'Swappability' at PBS.
  • Book condition is a very subjective matter.  We have tried to quantify book condition guidelines as well as possible, but there is always room for disagreement and confusion.
  • If a sender and requestor cannot agree to a satisfactory resolution to this swap, they should both move on.  There are plenty of non-problematic swaps to be had at PBS!

 

Date Posted: 5/2/2011 8:15 PM ET
Member Since: 6/26/2006
Posts: 2,585
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Or, what Lisa said.  *laughs*  she beat me to it.  :)

Date Posted: 5/2/2011 8:16 PM ET
Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,995
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Yes, but yours is much more thorough. I hate searching the help docs. cheeky

Date Posted: 5/2/2011 8:19 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,194
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I hope you sent the pics to the sender. I can't see how anyone would try to explain that away as aging, age doesn't seep across the pages in a distinct line! Typically liquid damage is hard to capture, but it is pretty obvious there (never thought of scanning instead of the camera, I'll have to try that next time I get a liquid damaged book.)

Date Posted: 5/2/2011 8:23 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,857
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 There are no guidelines for RWAP based on smell. So, whether or not the book "smells" does not count as far as RWAP.

To me, that looks like it might be staining from age. I have seen old books stain in similar patterns. Of course, it might be old liquid, too. Don't know.

Sorry, that is not much help. But I really think it could just be age, like your sender claims.

Date Posted: 5/2/2011 8:30 PM ET
Member Since: 2/28/2009
Posts: 27
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The bottom closed-edge of the pages shows the stain also in a way that assures me it's old liquid and not age.

I sent her these pics with no reply.  I'm assuming I am just s out of luck.  

Just felt like venting a bit, thanks for the replies.  :)

Date Posted: 5/2/2011 8:53 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
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Roger, you might contact one more time, politely, saying you'd hate to have to mark the transaction as unresolved, since it will put 2 black marks on her account.  It might not help, but hopefully it will prompt her into action.

As a librarian, with no offense meant toward some of the other posters, that is clearly liquid damage, not just old age -- you don't get those big splash marks without some sort of liquid being involved.  Since it stinks, you may have mold involved, which can impact your health and potentially spread to your other books, so you might want to keep it in a sealed bag until you can resolve the situation one way or the other.  Blech.

 

Date Posted: 5/2/2011 8:57 PM ET
Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,995
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It's a stain, liquid or no, therefore unpostable:

 

Overall Condition:

  • No damage at all from water or other liquid
  • Not soiled
  • No stains (exception for cookbooks--see below)
  • No mold
  • no highlighting, underlining or writing on text pages (exception for Textbooks/Workbooks and travel guidebooks --see below


Last Edited on: 5/2/11 8:57 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/2/2011 9:06 PM ET
Member Since: 3/8/2007
Posts: 2,541
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Nope, not wrong to want a credit back.  That book is yucky!!

Date Posted: 5/2/2011 9:58 PM ET
Member Since: 2/28/2009
Posts: 27
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Thanks again, all.  Rather than continue messaging her, I'll just give it a few days and then mark it unresolved.  Win some you lose some, and she wins here I guess...

I was going to throw this book in my next Goodwill run but I think I'll put it in the trash, as I don't want to stink up their books there, either.  

Date Posted: 5/3/2011 12:40 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,857
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I have a collection of books that fall within the 75 to 150 year old range. I also have a collection of paperbacks that fall within the 40-60 year old range. They all have foxing and yellowness from aging to various degrees.

Foxing can cause marks that look like water stains, and I see patterns similar to these pictures on my old books (that are not water damage). Some of them wear like that from the corners, in. Some of them wear from the outer edge of the covers. Others just have an area of more or less foxing. Some of them have all over pinpricks of foxing. Old paper is variable as it ages. When a book sits on a shelf, the "environment" at the bottom of the shelf can be quite different from the "environment" at the top of the shelf, and can cause excessive deterioration in one or another part of the same book.

I'm not saying that it isn't old water damage. I'm just saying that I don't think it must be old water damage.

Date Posted: 5/4/2011 11:58 AM ET
Member Since: 2/28/2009
Posts: 27
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I was happy to see that I was refunded this credit this morning!  Thanks, all, for the feedback.  smiley

Date Posted: 5/5/2011 1:15 AM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2005
Posts: 4,469
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That definitely had something spilled on it at some point..which might also contribute to the smell(I can't smell it, though, the smell could be something else entirely). So, yeah, I'd RWAP it, and maybe they'll give your credit back, you never know.