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Topic: 2 books received both with condition problems

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Subject: 2 books received both with condition problems
Date Posted: 4/3/2013 8:53 PM ET
Member Since: 9/8/2012
Posts: 54
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I received 2 books on the same day, but with conditions problems.  One with obvious liquid (prob. coffee) stains on front and back cover, other book with highlighting.  I marked both received in good condition, just because I would have accepted these books anyway.  Wished that senders would have messaged me with conditions beforehand.    Hopefully this is not the new standard to send books this way.  I had received 21 books without any issues at all.  Sorry, I'm just venting a little.  Still love this site!!!

Date Posted: 4/3/2013 9:32 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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Unfortunately Debbie, unless receiving members RWAP there's sometimes not much incentive for sending members to learn or abide by the rules.

Date Posted: 4/3/2013 9:41 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 10,247
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Hi Debbie!

You might want to reconsider marking books like that received in good condition. Many members think that it just encourages people to keep sending out unpostable books, in the hope that they are mailing to someone nice, like you, who won't complain.

It's possible to mark books received with a problem, so that the sending member knows about the issues, without asking for your credit back, if you don't want it back. I sometimes do that depending on the book issue, and whether or not I feel the sender could have made an honest mistake by overlooking something that is not as noticable. If I get mailed something that is obviously unpostable, I'm not as nice about it, though. (I once received a book with actual mold growing on it ... not surface mold, either ... raised mold growing on it).

I'm like you, there are different books that I might choose accept with different unpostable issues ... but the proper way for people to offer out-and-out unpostables is in the Book Bazaar, where people can be told about the condition and choose whether or not to receive them.

The book with highlighting is a little different to me, because those are postable (as long as you follow the book-with-writing PM rules), so that woudln't bother me as much as receiving a coffee stained book, which can't be posted at all.

Overall, I find that problem books are pretty rare, though, so hopefully those will be the last that you receive for a while.

Date Posted: 4/3/2013 10:24 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,485
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I personally like to mark that type of book as RWAP, then not ask for the credit back. I think we really need to mark the books as problems. I am very willing to mark a book as RWAP, and really consider it before I ask for the credit. I believe this helps PBS. Makes those problem senders have a history of bad marks. Which helps PBS when they review the accounts.
Date Posted: 4/4/2013 4:31 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,226
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Hopefully this is not the new standard to send books this way.

It will be if receivers don't mark the books as having problems! If you'd accept the book that way, then you don't have to ask for your credit back, but the proper way to record the transaction is to mark it as Problem - damaged by Sender because they books are not postable.

The coffee stained book's sender should not have notified you first, that book should NEVER be posted into the system at all. It can be offered in the Book Bazaar, but never should the Post This Book button be used on a stain book. The highlighted book could be posted under the textbook exemption with correspondence prior to sending. But the sender will see no need to go through that if senders are accepting the books without them doing it. Always properly record the transaction whether you accept the condition or not. Ask for you credit back (or not) if you accept the book in the condition if arrives in. 

Last Edited on: 4/5/13 4:07 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/4/2013 4:53 PM ET
Member Since: 4/11/2007
Posts: 834
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I can honestly say that in the time that I've been here, I have never received a book that was RWAP - Damaged by Sender. Just lucky, I guess.

On the other side of the coin, in 6 years, I have had two books RWAPed by a requestor. One was an excessively picky application of an RC. (We won't even go into *that* particular can-of-worms. photo animal-smiley-075_zpsb03bdfe8.gif) The other was legitimate. (Several of the back pages were loose; I   didn't catch that before posting and shipping. Since then, I have been a LOT more careful of even new-looking books that I haven't personally read.)

Last Edited on: 4/4/13 4:53 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 4/4/2013 6:02 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,485
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PBS works on a honor system. It is our responsibility to mark problems as RWAP. It helps PBS and the next member who will be getting a book from that sender. Please do not let a member slide.

Yes, we do get those ugly "But I received it that way" responses. But I find I get much fewer when I say I'm fine not getting my credit back.

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 4/4/2013 6:49 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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RWAPs (Received With A Problem transactions) are the site's quality control system.  By not marking a problem transaction as a problem transaction, you are not helping yourself nor the site in any way.

Some members feel like they are getting the Sending member into trouble by marking as RWAP, and so do not mark problem transactions as problems because they don't want to cause harm to another member.  What these members are not realizing, is that they are actually causing harm potentially to many other future members who receive more problem books from the same Sender who was never notified that they were doing anything wrong.

RWAPs should, instead, be thought of this way:  You are marking an accurate record of the actual transaction and recording accurately what has occurred.  If there is a problem with the transaction, it should be noted.  The transaction should be recorded as one where a problem occurred and one where not all parties concerned received a satisfactory conclusion. 

Nothing personal.  Just an accurate recording of the transaction history.

All members should mark problem transactions as problems, even if in the end they "would have accepted these books anyway."  (One doesn't need to request a credit refund when reporting a transaction as a problem.)

IMHO, the site truly works better when all members follow the rules and when all members accurately report their actual experiences!

Subject: hopefully it won't happen again.
Date Posted: 4/4/2013 8:39 PM ET
Member Since: 9/8/2012
Posts: 54
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Thanks for all the info...I went back and forth about how to mark it.  Next time, i will mark it accordingly...hopefully won't need to. I am more upset about the stain on covers.  Has PBS ever condsidered a feedback rating system like Ebay?  just wondering.

Date Posted: 4/4/2013 10:52 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 10,247
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Has PBS ever condsidered a feedback rating system like Ebay? just wondering

I doubt it. PBS does not have a mechanism for selecting a sender to send a book. They would have to re-engineer the whole site.

Members have discussed it in the forums before, though.

IMO, public feedback is just a mechanism for senders and receivers to bully and blackmail each other. And, also in my opinion, it would be completely unhelpful anyway. Because each transaction is different.

For example, I have stacks and stacks of like-new books that I mail out. However, I am also the first to say that I will absolutely send out books that are "gray area" books ... I look at them and decide they are postable, while understanding that others may look at the same book and feel they are unpostable.

So ... does knowing any of that information tell you your chances of getting a beautiful like-new book from me vs. one that is gray-area postable?


Because it depends on the book. I don't send out only like-new books, and I don't send out only gray-area postables.

Also, I only mail once a week, on Sundays. Usually.

So, if you order a book from me on Sunday morning, your feedback would be that I am a super-fast same-day shipper.

If you order a book from me on Sunday night, your feedback would be that I am average-to-slow almost-the-max-shipping-period shipper.

Neither of those things is correct, (or, both of them are, I guess) but in any case,  neither peice of feedback would help you figure out your chances of getting a book from me quickly.

Date Posted: 4/4/2013 11:33 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,485
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And I'm much more willing to accept a grey area book if I'm asked.  Or if it is rare.  Sent me a stained Dan Brown?  RWAP.    

I sent out a number of old out of print books that were borderline.  The books almost never get posted.   I asked.  Not a single member asked me to skip them.   (I was already to ask them to add a one time RC, just so I could offer these well loved rare books.)