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Topic: Acceptable condition?

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Subject: Acceptable condition?
Date Posted: 8/27/2011 4:07 PM ET
Member Since: 3/21/2011
Posts: 2
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My son has been collecting the hardback copies of A Series of Unfortunate Events books.  Today we received one in the mail that I would not relist.  You can not read the name of the book on the binding because it is so worn.  It looks like a library marking has been ripped off the cover and binding.  The cover is starting to separate from the binding.  All four corners of the cover are very worn. 

The pages are all there and in readable  condition - but this is not a book my son would want in his collection.  Do I PM the sender and request a refund of my credit? 

thanks for your help!





Date Posted: 8/27/2011 4:18 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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Excessive wear is subjective and a bit of a gray area.  To the point of can't read the title...hmmm.

The items that caught my eye, were torn patches on the cover.  There's something in the guidelines that mention cuts or tears to the cover cannot exceed an inch in length and pieces cut off (a type of reminder mark) cannot exceed 1 square inch total.

Can you post a pic of the cover/binding seperation?  Those are often unpostable.

Date Posted: 8/27/2011 4:22 PM ET
Member Since: 10/30/2009
Posts: 962
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From the Help docs:



  • Must be intact, with no separation on the inside or outside of the book

Soooo....if the binding is separating, that is the only issue you need to use to RWAP it.  Personally with the way you describe it, I would RWAP based on the binding and ask for my credit back.  When you mark a book RWAP, there is a new feature that requests the credit for you.  I believe it is automatically check marked to request a refund (but you can uncheck it if deemed unecessary).  But I would put in the description as well that a credit refund is requested.  Good luck.


Date Posted: 8/28/2011 3:59 AM ET
Member Since: 10/2/2007
Posts: 174
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It is not good, postable condition and your son doesn't want it for his collection-so ask for a refund.

The title's worn off the spine, patches are missing from the cover-that's excessive wear. Spine/binding separation is a BIG problem too, it's damaged beyond question to me.

Date Posted: 8/28/2011 4:46 AM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
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As the others have said, if the binding is separating, the book is in unpostable condition. However, it does sound as if the other problems cited are examples of excessive wear, which is allowed under the Posting Guidelines. Because of the separation, you should mark the book has having been Received With a Problem; However, the fact that the book isn't desirable as a keeper is matter best addressed through the use of Requestor Conditions, specifying that you are only willing to accept the next copy if it not overly worn.

Date Posted: 8/28/2011 12:17 PM ET
Member Since: 1/20/2009
Posts: 2,680
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Well, one of the key PBS rules at work here is "good, not excessively worn condition" which is highly subjective, though it is valid grounds for RWAP. That being said, you also have the binding separation and missing patches of the cover issues going on. So, you could actually ignore the subjective excessive wear issue completely (or just mention it) and base your RWAP and refund request entirely on the far more concrete rules regarding the binding separation and the 1" rule for cover rips and tears, assuming the rule was broken. You are the only one that can see the book and see how big the patches are.

Date Posted: 8/28/2011 12:28 PM ET
Member Since: 1/1/2009
Posts: 1,924
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 I would mark the book RWAP and first site the binding separation making the book unpostable and then mention the book is excessively worn as your second reason to RWAP and ask for your credit back. Sounds like the book might be able to able to be donated some place still though? Some people use such books in crafts! :)



Subject: Sender's reply
Date Posted: 8/28/2011 9:06 PM ET
Member Since: 3/21/2011
Posts: 2
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Here is the sender's reply:

This book was purchased by us from our school library; we felt it was good enought to purchase, although I will acknowledge the cover is worn. However, there is no water damage, all the pages are intact, untorn and readable. There is nothing to prevent someone enjoying this book and reading it completely. If you want books for a collection, my advice is to purchase a new copy. This is a book swap, not a bookstore. If you just want to enjoy reading the story, this book fulfills that purpose, as it did for my daughter. I have received books in worse condition and as long as they were readable, I accepted them. I'm sorry I do not feel justified in refunding the credit unless you'd like to return the book to us. If you'd like to return it, I will give you an address. Thank you.


So I guess I am stuck with this copy.  I did right her back and tell her that the main thing that bothered me was the tear in the binding - which is clearly a violation of PBS rules.  The main reason I am not shipping it back to her is that I am afraid she would post it again and somebody else would be stuck with it!




Date Posted: 8/29/2011 1:48 AM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2007
Posts: 2,515
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A)  "I got it that way"

B)  "It was good enough for me"

C)  "I didn't RWAP and neither should you"

D)  All of the above.

There's no way they will respond well to the PBS standard request to send a second credit (or stamps or paypal to cover the return postage) on top of the refund if they want it back.

Sarah, sorry to hear you are experiencing this predicament.  But I am shaking my head since many of us have run into in this; we've heard it more than once here.  I think the most you can do is be polite and stick to your guns.  There are plenty of forum posts with advice on how to phrase your response to the sender to let them know they've admitted the book was unpostable so you are under no obligation to mark the transaction resolved.  I don't know if PBS will get involved in this since they try to let members work out issues on their own as much as they can, but  the sender did admit their violation.  I'm not sure, maybe others here can comment.  It probably wouldn't hurt to use the contact us button at the bottom here and provide the transaction ID# so they can see the correspondence.

Date Posted: 8/29/2011 6:14 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 10,041
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I am not sure that the other member admitted any violation. The other member says that the cover was worn, but she doesn't seem to agree that it is excessively worn. The other member does not address the question of the binding at all, which is the main reason this book might be considered a RWAP.

So, I don't think that PBS would read that message as admitting that the book was unpostable. "Worn" is not unpostable. The PBS rules say that "excessively worn" is unpostable, but that is a highly subjective description, as has been pointed out.

I think, unfortunately, that you may just be stuck with the book. The other member has declined to refund the credit and, IMO, has not admitted that there was something unpostable about the book.

Date Posted: 8/29/2011 11:07 AM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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The PBS rules say that "excessively worn" is unpostable, but that is a highly subjective description, as has been pointed out.

This is very true. One person's definition will be different than another's.


Date Posted: 8/29/2011 12:32 PM ET
Member Since: 1/1/2009
Posts: 1,924
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That responce is a very sad one indeed.

 My next step would be a note like this:


 Thank you for your responce, sadly your opinion on this is not in line with PBS rules.

 While excessively worn is subjective, the binding that is not fully attached is Not Subjective, it makes this book unpostable and because of that I am entitled to my credit back from you. (if you would like a photo of this I will provide one) I would be happy to mail this unpostable back to you by the site guidelines, meaning you must send me a second credit to do so or pay for the shipping. This is how the site runs, please contact your Tour Guide if you do not understand the rules. This RWAP has caused a black mark on your account. If I do not recieve my credit back for this unpostable book within 5 days I will have to mark this transaction as unresolved causing another black mark on your account.

   Please let me know if your going to be following the rules or not.

     Book lover just wanting postable books,




  Yes, that is what I would send. LOL