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Topic: Do you believe in the 10 Commandments?

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Subject: Do you believe in the 10 Commandments?
Date Posted: 3/8/2008 6:58 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
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If you believe in the 10 Commandments do you keep them all or only part of them?  If only part of them which ones and why?

 

ETA:  sorry should have posted this on the Religion forum but, will leave it here just in case. 



Last Edited on: 3/8/08 7:00 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/9/2008 9:10 PM ET
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I believe in the 2 greatest commandments that Christ gave in the New Testament. 

Matthew 22: 36-40
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

I think, though, as Jesus said, all the law hangs on these two commandments.  Every one of the 10 commandments would be followed if we followed just these two.  As for your other questions, I do my best to follow them, but I admittedly fall short, as well all do.



Last Edited on: 3/9/08 9:10 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/9/2008 9:49 PM ET
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I'm curious...do you try and keep the 4th commandment?

Date Posted: 3/9/2008 10:06 PM ET
Member Since: 5/23/2005
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Is this a test?  :)  No, I don't keep the sabbath day holy as the Israelites did.  For them it was a day of rest, but I believe that when we have placed our trust in Christ we have rest all the time. 

Matthew 11:28 (New International Version)
28
"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.

Date Posted: 3/10/2008 1:50 PM ET
Member Since: 9/18/2005
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Wow, ditto to what Brenda said.  She said what I was gonna say, but saved me the typing!  :)

I love the 10 commandments, as they were the law for a very long time. However, if you follow the 2 greatest command that Jesus gave us in the NT, the other 10 will fall into place.  Your heart with be right so these others will be easy(easier) to keep.

But also like Brenda said, we're all sinners and fall short.  Thank GOD for grace, repentance, and forgiveness.  :)

Date Posted: 3/10/2008 6:01 PM ET
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But, if you follow what Brenda replied....."Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' wouldn't you TRY and do everything the Lord commanded?

Date Posted: 3/10/2008 10:47 PM ET
Member Since: 9/24/2007
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Yes, I believe and love the Lord God with all my heart, soul, mind and strength.  The Lord set the 10 commandments for us to follow because he knew of the great consequences of not following them. 

Date Posted: 3/10/2008 11:24 PM ET
Member Since: 5/23/2005
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Christy, do you follow every commandment the Lord gave to the Israelites?  Do you make blood sacrifices to cover your sins?  I don't, for some parts (like sacrificing) because I believe we have a new law through Christ.  For other things, I think certain commandments were specific to the Israelites.  So which commandments were specific to the Israelites, and which ones are for all people?  

The requirements for the Sabbath were:
A person placed under that Sabbath law could not leave his home on the Sabbath (Exodus 16:29), he could not build a fire (Exodus 35:3), and he could not cause anyone else to work (Deuteronomy 5:14). A person breaking the Sabbath law was to be put to death (Exodus 31:15; Numbers 15:32–35).

Do you leave your house to go to church on Sunday?  I do.  In Old Testament times, I'd be put to death for it.  Honestly, I think it was putting the law above all else that Christ got so angry with the Pharisees and Sadducees.  It was following their endless laws, instead of seeing what all those laws were pointing to, which was Christ (who was right in front of their faces).

"Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." (Col 2:14-16)

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't follow any of the Old Testament commandments anymore.  I do think the 10 commandments are important, and that's why I previously said I try to follow God's commandments, but because of my sinful nature, I do fall short.  Praise God for the gift of Grace through Jesus Christ.  I guess for me, I don't harp on keeping the Sabbath day holy, because exactly how do you go about that?  Not in the way the Israelites did.  I do it by honoring God, but shouldn't I do that every single day?  Why on just one day?

I'm curious, Christy, why are you singling out the Sabbath day so much here?  How do you keep the Sabbath day holy?  I'm not trying to be hostile, I'm truly curious. :)   

Date Posted: 3/11/2008 1:11 PM ET
Member Since: 9/18/2005
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Well, and from my interpretation if we follow the 2 greatest commands given by Jesus, they cover the 10 commandments.  If you love God with all you have, you will be doing what He wants you to do...and through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, we are to  "present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service. Romans 12:1".  We're also told in Colossians 2:13-14: 

 

 

2:13

And you, being dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, you, I say, did he make alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses;

2:14

having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;

Jesus took care of the Old Law by nailing it to the cross...we are no longer bound by the Old Law, but by the New Law of the New Church established by Him during his time on earth and in His ultimate sacrifice for us.  His sacrifice was the only sacrifice that will ever be needed (in the shedding of blood) and our own personal, spiritual sacrifice is one we are to live out daily.  (athough, as we've stated we all fall short, which is where the Lord's grace comes in.)

Edited for technical difficulties!  :)



Last Edited on: 3/11/08 1:16 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 3/11/2008 1:22 PM ET
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I'm posting this in a new post since I was having so much trouble with formatting the one above....  but I did a bit of searching.  I found this link very helpful in explaining the Sabbath day no longer being holy.  Below is an excerpt and the link so you can read the whole thing.  Very good explanation!  :)

Truth for the World

....why do Christians meet for worship on Sunday, the first day of the week, instead of Saturday, the seventh day of the week?  The teaching of the Bible is plain.  The Law of Moses, which included the sabbath commandment, was to the nation of Israel only.  It lasted as a binding law until Christ died on the cross.  The Law of Christ, which began at Pentecost, is God’s law for all mankind today.  The Law of Christ teaches that we are to meet on Sunday, the first day of the week.  This is the day upon which our Lord arose from the dead (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2-6; Luke 24:1; John 20:1).  The day upon which the church began, Pentecost day, also was on the first day of the week (Leviticus 23:9-16).  Therefore, we can see why the Lord chose the first day of the week as the day of worship for Christians.

Date Posted: 3/11/2008 3:29 PM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2007
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Great thought provoking question... it is always good to dig in and find out what the Bible says and what I really believe. Thanks for the opportunity.

In the New Testament Book of Romans, Paul talks quite a bit about the law and where as Believers in Christ we stand. Especially in chapters 6 & 7. For the sake of time and space I will keep specific verses limited here, but I encourage you to prayerfully dig into Romans and see what Paul said.

Since I am not very eloquant with my words, I would also like to share some excerpts from a statement R.C. Sproul made on this topic (from the Reformation Study Bible page 264, emphasis mine):

"Scripture shows that God intends His law to function in three ways... It's first function is to be a mirror reflecting to us both the perfect righteousness of God and our own sinfulness and shortcomings... The law is meant to give knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20;4:15; 5:13; 7:7-11), and by showing us our need or pardon and our danger of damnation to lead us in repentance and faith to Christ (Gal 3:19-24)...  A second function, the "civil use", is to restrain evil (Deut. 13:6-11; 19:16-21; Rom 13:3-4)... Thus it secures civil order, and serves to protect the righteous from the unjust...  Its third function is to guide the regenerate (those who are saved in faith through Christ) into the good works that God has planned them (Eph 2:10). The law tells God's children what will please their heavenly Father (Mat 28:20, John 14:15)... The Christian is free from the law as a system of salvation (Rom 6:14; 7:4: 1Cor 9:20; Gal 2:15-19; 3:25), but is "under the law of Christ" as a rule of life (1Cor 9:21; Gal 6:2)."

So, Christy, to answer your question: Because I am a sinner there is no way I can keep all of the commandments. They have revealed to me what God's perfect standard is and no one can live up to it. However, the Good News is that it has brought me to the Redeemer (Christ) and by repentenance and my salvation in Him I no longer under the penalty of the law but under the law of grace which is only found in Christ. And by His grace He gives me the ability to do what is right. Do I still sin? Yes, but the awareness of my weaknesses keeps me reliant on Jesus and gives me the ability to walk away from that sin much quicker and to continue to grow in what pleases God.

Sorry for the long winded answer... there have been volumes written on this topic!!!!

 

 

 

Subject: Lengthy Response
Date Posted: 3/11/2008 6:08 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,693
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Christy, do you follow every commandment the Lord gave to the Israelites?  Do you make blood sacrifices to cover your sins? 

In the Old Testament there was The Law of God (10 Commandments) and The Laws of Moses (aka ceremonial laws)...I do try and keep The Law of God (I feel that He expects me to try to keep them to the best of my ability and He will make up the difference).  The blood sacrifices where done away with as they were a substitute for Christ's ultimate sacrifice, in other words His death on the cross replaced the ceremonial laws.  The key here is to recognize there is a difference between the 10 Commandments and the Ceremonial Laws because at Christ's death on the cross the Ceremonial Laws were also nailed to the cross (aka done away with) but, the 10 Commandments were not.

Matthew 5:17   "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Think about it...if Jesus said...He did not come to destroy the law but, to fulfil it...then why would fulfil mean to do away with it...what sense would it make for it to say.....Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destory, but to do away with it....HUH!!! would that make sense...for those that say that the 10 Commandments (The Law of God) was done away with because He said it was fulfilled!

______________________________________________________________________________________

Brenda, all the "requirements" placed upon the Sabbath and how to keep it were not "requirements" placed on the Sabbath by God but, were placed there by the religious leaders of that day. 

 



Last Edited on: 3/11/08 6:34 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Subject: Computer Glitch....response posted in two parts
Date Posted: 3/11/2008 6:18 PM ET
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Matthew 22: 36-40 36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

The reason these are the two greatest commandments is because if we do these we will be keeping the 10 Commandments...if you look at the 10 Commandments you will notice the first 4 deal with our relationship with God and the last 6 deal with our relationship with mankind.

Because I am a sinner there is no way I can keep all of the commandments. They have revealed to me what God's perfect standard is and no one can live up to it.

We have to make sure that we don't use the above statement/thought as an excuse to not try and keep the 10 Commandments, we have to make every effort to keep them and when we fail Christ steps in to make up the difference but, we have to try.  Now, we should think of the Commandments as a mirror to show us when we do wrong and as a roadmap  to show us where we need to be going.

Subject: Part 3 Dealing with the Sabbath Issue - Shocking Statements
Date Posted: 3/11/2008 6:32 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
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Therefore, we can see why the Lord chose the first day of the week as the day of worship for Christians.

I would like for someone to show me from their own (KJV, NKJV, NIV) Bible where Christ says that He has changed the Day of Worship (the Sabbath Day) from the 7th day to the 1st day.  I thought you might be interested in some information I found online (link at the end) from some church leaders.

 

“The Catholic Church…by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.”
-The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893

 

“There is but one church on the face of the earth which has the power, or claims power, to make laws binding on the conscience, binding before God, binding under penalty of hell-fire. For instance, the institution of Sunday. What right has any other church to keep this day? You answer by virtue of the third commandment [the Papacy renamed the fourth commandment, calling it the third], which says, ‘Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.’ But Sunday is not the Sabbath. Any school boy knows that Sunday is the first day of the week. I have repeatedly offered one thousand dollars to anyone who will prove by the Bible alone that Sunday is the day we are bound to keep, and no one has called for the money. It was the holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest from Saturday, the seventh day, to Sunday, the first day of the week.”

-T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture delivered in 1893

 

Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?

Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her—she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.”

-Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, p. 174

 

For more quotes see:  http://www.abcog.org/nh/sabsun.htm

 

Date Posted: 3/11/2008 6:49 PM ET
Member Since: 5/23/2005
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Christy, you seem to have a bit of an attacking manner, and I don't know if you're really reading what anyone is writing.  Nobody has said they don't try to keep the ten commandments, or that we should ignore them.  We have all said that we try to keep them.  Seriously, what more do you want?  No one has suggested that we as Christians just do whatever we want because we've been saved through Christ.  All anyone is saying is that we do our best to follow the commandments of God, we all have a sinful nature and fall short, and as such are thankful for the Grace provided by Christ.  

Nobody is perfect, besides Jesus Christ himself.  Saying that we are unable to keep every one of God's commandments is not a cop out, rather, it's what all Christians do when they realize their need for a Savior.  It's having humility, and understanding that without Christ, we are all lost.  We could talk about the importance of the commandments all day long, but without Christ not a one of us would get to Heaven.   

My point with the Sabbath day is that there are no Biblical guidelines for how to keep the Sabbath day holy (except for what is found in the Old Testament).  What exactly should we be doing?  What should we be avoiding?  And why do you seem to be hounding us about it?  :)

Date Posted: 3/11/2008 7:31 PM ET
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Christy, you seem to have a bit of an attacking manner, and I don't know if you're really reading what anyone is writing.

Oh contrare...I am not in an attacking manner...and I have definitely been reading everything folks have been posting. 

We have to make sure that we don't use the above statement/thought as an excuse to not try and keep the 10 Commandments, we have to make every effort to keep them and when we fail Christ steps in to make up the difference but, we have to try.

Note:  I did not say those posting on this forum were doing this...I said..."WE"  ah and that would include me in that comment.  And we do have to make sure (ok, maybe some of you don't but I'll admit I do) that we don't use the "I'm a sinner so I'm not perfect" statement as an excuse.

We could talk about the importance of the commandments all day long, but without Christ not a one of us would get to Heaven. 

Yes, this is a statement that I can totally agree with.

My point with the Sabbath day is that there are no Biblical guidelines for how to keep the Sabbath day holy (except for what is found in the Old Testament).  What exactly should we be doing?  What should we be avoiding?

The commandment does give us somewhat of a guideline on how to keep it but, you are right, the Bible does not give us explicit directions on how to keep the Sabbath other than the day that we should keep, on that it is specific.

And why do you seem to be hounding us about it?  :)

I'm sorry if you feel I'm hounding you about it that is not my intent. The 4th commandment is the one that is kept the least of all of the Commandments.  The things I have said were simply a response to statements on the forum.

Date Posted: 3/11/2008 7:50 PM ET
Member Since: 5/23/2005
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The only thing the Bible says is not to do any work, or not to allow anyone in your household to do work, and that it's a day of rest. 

8 Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.
10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.

But what about the pastor/priest/preacher at your church?  They are doing work, and I'm willing to bet Sunday is one of their least restful days.  Do you see my point about there being no easy answers about how to keep the Sabbath day holy?  What about those who work in hospitals, rest homes, and places like that?  Someone has to work on those days.  For me, the biggest thing to remember is that God looks on the intent of our hearts.

And that's what I think my (and I think others) biggest point has been.  We try to keep the commandments.  We do the best we can.  That's all any of us can do.  When I say "we're all sinners and fall short", for me, it's not an excuse.  I'm still doing the best I can every single day, and I still fall short every single day.  But I love God with every bit of my being, and I do the best I can every day to love those around me, so in that sense, I do feel that I'm obeying God as best I can, which should answer your original question. :) 



Last Edited on: 3/11/08 7:51 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/11/2008 8:00 PM ET
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Also, I think links posted here illustrate exactly why there are so many different denominations of Christianity.  You have experts that say the Sabbath is on Saturday, and experts that say it's on Sunday.  Some verses in the Bible indicate that Christ did away with the old law and nailed it to the cross, some verses say that Christ said he didn't come to do away with the law, but to fulfill it.

I, personally, go to a non-denominational church, because for me, it's all about my relationship with Jesus Christ.  Every Christian has the Holy Spirit to convict us when we are doing wrong, and to help us understand the Bible.  It's my opinion that understanding may be different from person to person, just because our lives are so different.  That's exactly why we have the Holy Spirit as a personal part of our lives. 

As for which day the Sabbath is actually on, to me, it doesn't matter one bit.  I don't think the day that I worship God by going to church makes a bit of difference to Him either.  I'm sorry if that offends anyone.  My Lord knows my heart, and He knows that I love Him.    

Date Posted: 3/11/2008 11:16 PM ET
Member Since: 8/28/2007
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I am in a men's reading group that has been focused on spiritual warfare lately.  I have to say it is just too hard for me to get into the book.  Not that I don't believe there is some type of spiritual warfare going on.  I just think sometimes we aren't  reading our Bibles the way it was read when it was first written.  We get hooked on literal translations of phrases and words that were part of another culture. 

God is good and people sin, that hasn't changed.  But the way we move in our culture, the way we  speak, and the more we learn about our history doesn't always lend to this translation.  For instance, there are many flood stories across cultures and religions.  What does that mean?  It could give more evidence that there once was a great flood.  Or, it could be the way that different cultures explained the vast amounts of water around their borders.  The flood story in Gilgamesh is very close to the one in the old testament.  What if narratives in the old testament aren't as clear cut as they seem.  Does that make God less God? 

Even though the spiritual warfare book doesn't interest me I go because I love the guys in my group.  As Brenda noted, 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Subject: Response to myself
Date Posted: 3/11/2008 11:17 PM ET
Member Since: 8/28/2007
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Ha!  I used a quote from Matthew after saying not too take things too literally!

Date Posted: 3/12/2008 10:45 AM ET
Member Since: 10/6/2005
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I was taught that animal sacrifice, Kosher eating laws, and the Sabbath law were all part of the covenant of the Hebrew people, and that the Gentiles were not bound by them. The Jewish people of today ARE still bound by them because THEY are the ones who have chosen NOT to accept Jesus as the Messiah. Born-again Gentiles (and Messianic Jews) are not bound by the old covenant but rather exist within the new covenant - that of grace.

This is the interpretation of the Sabbath commandment by Dr. J. Vernon McGee, who in my household at least is the be-all and end-all of Bible scholars:

"The Sabbath day was given to the nation Israel in a very unusual way. It was a covenant, a token between God and the children of Israel. We see this in Exodus 31:13-17. The exact day, in my opinion, is not important. After all, the calendar changes that have been made make it impossible for us to know whether our seventh day is our Saturday or not. I do not think it is. But that is beside the  point because, as far as we are concerned, it makes no difference what day we observe. We keep what we believe is the first day of the week. It may or may not be. But we recognize the first day of the week because our Lord came back from the dead on that day. All of this will be dealt with later on in the Boook of Exodus."

He says later, in the aforementioned Exodus 31, that "The Sabbath was given specifically to Israel. I do not believe it was ever given to the (post resurrection) church. When someone asks me, When was the Sabbath Day changed? I always reply that it never was changed. It was done away with, as far as the church is concerned. We are not under the Sabbath Day which is Saturday. We do not observe Saturday - Jesus was dead that day and we are not serving a dead Christ. On the first day of the week Jesus Christ rose from the dead. The church from the very beginning met on the first day of the week. That is when the church was born; the day of Pentecost was on the day AFTER the Sabbath" later in this passage he says "The Israelites are an earthly people belonging to the first creation. The church is a new creation and it was given a new day to observe which is the first day of the week."

Paul also states in the New Testament that if Gentiles choose to keep ANY part of the Old Covenant, they are to keep ALL of it - they can't pick and choose. That would mean if as modern-day Christians we chose to honor Saturday as the Sabbath, we would also HAVE to honor Kosher - and how many Christians do you know who do that?

Date Posted: 3/12/2008 11:03 AM ET
Member Since: 10/6/2005
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Oh also as far as "honoring" the Sabbath, be it Saturday OR Sunday, I think that is covered as well under the new covenant of grace. I mean, it's only in the last century or two that Christian communities have NOT kept the Sabbath as a day of rest. But in this day and age, there are simply too many occupations for which it is impossible to avoid working whether you WANT to or not. I mean, are you going to tell a farmer that he can't milk his cows on a Sunday? Or the ERs of the country that they have to close no matter how many people may need them? Times change and interpretations change to meet the needs of the times.

Something I have always believed as an adult and that I think Dr. McGee's writings back up is that part of the reason that the Bible is so open to interpretation is because God knew that as times changed, what we need from His Word was going to change as well. I mean, if the Word wasn't ever to be changed, then why did God allow the early Roman Catholic Church to remove parts of the Old Testament (which the Jews still have) and later for the King James version to edit the Catholic Bible even more when they translated it from Latin to English? God allows the Bible to change over time because the things that were removed were things that apparently people who came later in history would not need and because the changes in language have allowed modern people to better understand. If we believe, as Christians obviously should, that the Bible is the holy, inspired Word of God, then we have to believe that He would not allow it to be altered in any way that would lead us astray from what He wants from us as His people. PEOPLE will always misinterpret the Bible because Satan is doing his best to make that happen - but that doesn't invalidate the Bible itself, now does it?

Subject: A Day of Rest-Everyone needs one
Date Posted: 3/17/2008 3:54 PM ET
Member Since: 9/24/2007
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So many questions about the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was first kept by God himself.  He worked six days and then rested on the 7th day.  It was established as a day of rest for God's people.  When I first had this laid on my heart about the Sabbath I pretty much did the same thing as yall have been doing.  Research and more research, why is it considered Sunday instead of what the Lord established as being on the 7th day, which would make it Friday night, Saturday day.  Then I realized that it was a day made specificially for us to rest.  For 6 days we run around with so much to do and the Lord knew we would need a day of rest for our spirits, souls and bodies.  Yet, so many people miss that by debating and feeling like the Sabbath is taking away something from you that you want to do and in following Christ, you know the part where he says deny yourselves and take up your cross and follow him.  Jesus kept the Sabbath and he is God.  So if we're following him we should do the same.  I look forward to Friday night and Saturday day because I know I don't have to do anything but rest and think about him and what he wants to do in me and through me.  It makes for some great reading and studying time.  My body, soul and spirit gets to be refreshed on the Sabbath and then I'm ready to tackle Sunday through Friday because I've been refreshed with the Lord.  So if you really want to know about the Sabbath and what it is, go to the author of it-God.  Read about it in Genesis then go over to the New Testament and read about Jesus and how he kept the Sabbath and even some of the things he did on the Sabbath.  And rest in him, knowing he alone will keep you, body, soul and spirit.  It's a day of rest and refreshment.

Date Posted: 3/17/2008 5:41 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,693
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Deborah T......thanks I REALLY appreciate your comments...it is refreshing as I was becoming quite depressed.  Thanks ever so much.

Date Posted: 3/21/2008 6:55 PM ET
Member Since: 5/7/2006
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I think the response here is more what you need  than in the R&S section:)

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