Discussion Forums - LGBTQ LGBTQ

Topic: Big Marriage Victory in California

Club rule - Please, if you cannot be courteous and respectful, do not post in this forum.
Page:   Unlock Forum posting with Annual Membership.
Subject: Big Marriage Victory in California
Date Posted: 5/15/2008 1:52 PM ET
Member Since: 4/4/2008
Posts: 25
Back To Top

(San Francisco, California) The California Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Prop 22, the voter approved initiative used to block same-sex marriage is unconstitutional.

The court also said that California's domestic partnership law is not a good enough substitute for marriage.

The 4-3 ruling. written by Chief Justice Ron George paves the way for gay and lesbian couples to marry once the ruling is officially published by the court - in about 30 days.

Once that is done same-sex couples in California will be able to obtain civil marriage licenses...



Last Edited on: 5/15/08 1:53 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/15/2008 2:02 PM ET
Member Since: 11/10/2006
Posts: 3,012
Back To Top

Go California!

Date Posted: 5/15/2008 2:06 PM ET
Member Since: 2/22/2007
Posts: 103
Back To Top
Wooot! : )
Date Posted: 5/15/2008 2:21 PM ET
Member Since: 7/5/2006
Posts: 4,669
Back To Top

woohoo... I just was coming to post the Washington Post/AP story and ya beat me !   :) 


Calif. Court Overturns Ban on Gay Marriage


on a more local note... the PA legislature tabled the marriage amendment, and as long as the Dems control the state house, it will never come up for a vote.. phew!

Date Posted: 5/15/2008 2:36 PM ET
Member Since: 12/19/2005
Posts: 5,091
Back To Top

Good news, but I wish, just one time, that voters would say "You know what, if gays want to get married, let them!"

Date Posted: 5/15/2008 2:55 PM ET
Member Since: 5/21/2007
Posts: 2,992
Back To Top

That is good news... and, I have to agree with Kari.  

Date Posted: 5/15/2008 3:04 PM ET
Member Since: 5/9/2006
Posts: 851
Back To Top

Last Edited on: 1/18/09 1:49 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/15/2008 3:27 PM ET
Member Since: 5/13/2006
Posts: 2,157
Back To Top

What about people who were married before the ban last time?  Are their marriages still valid?

Date Posted: 5/15/2008 6:15 PM ET
Member Since: 1/11/2006
Posts: 7,581
Back To Top

So freaking exciting!

Date Posted: 5/15/2008 6:44 PM ET
Member Since: 9/14/2005
Posts: 5,499
Back To Top


(Love the new Avi, Jessie!)

Date Posted: 5/15/2008 6:53 PM ET
Member Since: 11/10/2006
Posts: 3,012
Back To Top

I think it  will not take effect for 30 days, giving the clerks offices time to prepare all the necessary documents,etc.

That's what I heard on CNN Headline news, anyway.

Date Posted: 5/15/2008 7:32 PM ET
Member Since: 5/9/2006
Posts: 851
Back To Top

Yes, but CNN is also the only news network that initially incorrectly reported this mornings news making it out to be a loss as opposed to a victory.

Date Posted: 5/15/2008 7:56 PM ET
Member Since: 11/10/2006
Posts: 3,012
Back To Top

From NPR:


The ruling takes effect in 30 days, at which point gay couples can go to city halls across the state and get married




Date Posted: 5/15/2008 8:22 PM ET
Member Since: 9/16/2007
Posts: 1,003
Back To Top

30 days is what I heard also.  Lauren, since it was decided by the state Supreme Court, I think the only way to overturn it would be for someone to challenge it to the US Supreme Court, and it takes forever for them to decide if they're even going to hear a case.  So it seems like this should be pretty safe. 

Right????!   :-)

Way to go CA!!!!


ETA:  I just talked to a friend in SF who said the newsies are reporting that it's unlikely to be appealed to the US Supreme Court, because the ruling is based on the State Constitution, rather than the Fed one.  Smart way to go!! 


Last Edited on: 5/15/08 8:27 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/15/2008 10:35 PM ET
Member Since: 2/6/2006
Posts: 376
Back To Top

Encouraging news! 

Date Posted: 5/15/2008 11:22 PM ET
Member Since: 10/8/2007
Posts: 1,951
Back To Top

visiting LGLBQ to say CHEERS!

Date Posted: 5/16/2008 7:40 AM ET
Member Since: 6/20/2007
Posts: 5,062
Back To Top

This is indeed good news!  Now hopefully the rest of the country will follow suit.

L. G. (L)
Date Posted: 5/16/2008 9:01 AM ET
Member Since: 9/5/2005
Posts: 12,412
Back To Top

YAY!!  May Oregon be next!!!

Sharon C. (Mamu) - ,
Date Posted: 5/16/2008 9:31 AM ET
Member Since: 3/12/2007
Posts: 1,154
Back To Top

Just read this great article on Slate.  Very optimistic and hopeful words!    I doubt I'll live to see it in the midwest (Indiana) but then I doubted I'd live to see it ever!  Go California!  May the nation follow... 

In another article I read,  I loved a section about the non-fallout in Massachusetts.  Bascially saying, the Massachusetts populace soon saw the REAL gay marriage: dropping kids off at school, mowing the lawn, shopping for groceries, etc.   That's the thing that is the most frustrating to me.  Most life-long relationships (gay or straight) are 97% composed of boring, mundane stuff that wouldn't get 3 hits on YouTube!  



Why the California Supreme Court did more than legalize gay marriage.

Read Slate's legal bloggers' reactions to the California same-sex marriage ruling on Convictions.

On Thursday, by a 4-3 vote of the state Supreme Court, California followed Massachusetts and became the second state in which same-sex couples can tie the knot as tightly as straight couples can. The Massachusetts opinion of 2003 will always have the fame of a first mover. In it, the state high court found that the exclusion of gays from marriage deprived them of both liberty and equality rights protected under the state constitution. The California Supreme Court came to the same conclusion, but in terms that have more legal bite and greater political consequence.

The legal difference between the two opinions lies in the so-called "rational basis" review used by the Massachusetts court and the "strict scrutiny" deployed by the California Court. In constitutional parlance, these terms describe how closely a court will examine state legislation: will it give the legislature the benefit of the doubt, or not? Rational basis review is so lenient that it almost always results in the validation of state policies (in this sense, the 2003 Massachusetts ruling was an aberration), while strict scrutiny is so stringent that it almost always results in the invalidation of such policies. In other words, the standards supposedly only express how closely the court will look at laws, but looks can kill.

Writing for the California high court, Chief Justice Ronald M. George first found that the exclusion of gays from marriage violated their fundamental right to marry, thereby drawing strict scrutiny from the court. This meant that the state would have to produce a compelling reason to bar gays from what the court deemed "the most socially productive and individually fulfilling relationship that one can enjoy in the course of a lifetime." In a crucial move, Chief Justice George rejected the state's argument that tradition was such a reason. Allowing tradition to thus entrench itself, he said, would have allowed for laws barring interracial couples. And, as he noted, the California Supreme Court struck down a ban on interracial marriage in 1948, almost two decades before the U.S. Supreme Court did in Loving v. Virginia.

Although he could have decided the case on this basis alone, the Chief Justice kept going. He explicitly found that discrimination against gays, on the basis of their sexual orientation, was equivalent under the California state constitution to discrimination against racial minorities. To my knowledge, California's is the only state high court to have come to this conclusion (the federal Supreme Court has not weighed in). For gays, this pronouncement is critical because it is portable—that is, gays can now challenge any California state policy that discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation. As Marty Lederman points out elsewhere in Slate, this in its own right is a signal advance for gay people.

The magisterial conviction of Thursday's opinion would be extraordinary no matter what court had delivered it. But its issuance from the high court of California is nothing short of revolutionary. Recent polls show that the California Supreme Court is the most respected state high court in the country. This suggests that other courts may borrow its strict scrutiny standard, under which most bans on same-sex marriage would fall. Even if no other court adopts today's reasoning, the mere fact that millions can marry in the Golden State will have its own effects. California is the most populous state in the nation and one of the top 10 economies in the world (alongside nations like Canada and Italy). Because of its cultural, political, and economic influence, what happens in California does not stay in California.

So much depends, then, on the inevitable legislative response to this opinion. The refusal of the opinion to temporize or compromise will make it a political lightning rod. An initiative to pass a state constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage has already been proposed for California's November 2008 ballot. Unlike the anti-gay marriage initiative that failed in Arizona in April, the upcoming one in California takes narrow aim at marriage itself, leaving domestic partnerships alone. If that initiative succeeds, Thursday's court opinion will be wiped off the books. If it fails, opponents of same-sex marriage will no longer be able to say that activist judges have imposed their mores on an unwilling Californian public.

It is helpful for the California opinion that it closely resembles a U.S. Supreme Court decision that has stood the test of time: Loving v. Virginia. In that 1967 ruling, the court struck down all remaining state bans on interracial marriage under the federal constitution. Like Thursday's decision in California, Loving made the same dual move of invalidating legislation, based on strict scrutiny, on grounds of both liberty and equality. This move is unusual—indeed, I know of no case other than Loving and Thursday's case that has made it.

On the 40th anniversary of her victory, African-American plaintiff Mildred Loving last year issued a statement urging that gays be allowed to marry. Her support must have been welcome to the same-sex couples who had been patiently waiting for the chance to do so. Del Martin, 87, and Phyllis Lyons, 83, are lesbian activists who have been in a committed relationship for 55 years. They got married in San Francisco in 2004, during the brief window in which Mayor Gavin Newsom unilaterally declared that they could have a legal wedding. But the courts told Newsom he did not have that power, and their marriage was later annulled.

Mildred Loving died 13 days ago, so she did not get to see the California court take up her cause. Martin and Lyons, who were mentioned in Thursday's decision, are still among us and can marry again. One hopes that when Californians vote on the ballot measure this fall, they will be mindful of those who never lived to see today's opinion—and of those who never thought they would.

Date Posted: 5/17/2008 2:34 PM ET
Member Since: 12/20/2005
Posts: 152
Back To Top

We are planning on going out to CA and get married for your anniversary next year.  It won't stand in the state of Floriduh, but it would be great just to have a valid license.  I need to do a little research on blood tests and so on.  We haven't told the kids yet though. My poor son actually asked me about 6 months ago, if us living together was against the law.   So we want to do this more for them, then for ourselves. I'm so happy.

Date Posted: 5/29/2008 6:00 PM ET
Member Since: 8/22/2007
Posts: 552
Back To Top

That is so fantastic!

Date Posted: 5/30/2008 1:45 PM ET
Member Since: 1/11/2006
Posts: 7,581
Back To Top

Rose - that's great!  Will you bring your kids along?

We're going out to California this summer and decided we're going to go to the County Clerk and do the legal marriage thing, too!  Just us and our 2 friends that we're visiting, but it's still something

Date Posted: 5/30/2008 3:25 PM ET
Member Since: 5/9/2006
Posts: 851
Back To Top

Last Edited on: 1/18/09 1:47 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 5/30/2008 3:58 PM ET
Member Since: 7/5/2006
Posts: 4,669
Back To Top

we'll all be there in spirit, Jessie.... but you're not getting another surprise wedding shower game!

Date Posted: 5/30/2008 5:30 PM ET
Member Since: 1/11/2006
Posts: 7,581
Back To Top

I'm not, Sam?! :)

We're going to do it in Tahoe