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Topic: BoB with a Newbie - UPDATED 2/17

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Subject: BoB with a Newbie - UPDATED 2/17
Date Posted: 2/14/2009 7:40 PM ET
Member Since: 10/19/2006
Posts: 3,343
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I'm in the middle of trying to resolve a BoB trade with a relative newbie around here. In exchange for a WL book sent by me, I got a textbook with highlighted pages (not made known to me first) sent by the other member. PBS-DC says the book I sent was received seven days ago, but the other member says no, not there (it's a PO box).

When I pointed the damage out and asked if the member would resolve this somehow (unfortunately, I don't want any of the other books on her shelf), the reply I got was "what do you want me to do about it?" And then the following:

I don't have any credits. I would mark it received however, I haven’t received it yet. I don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry that unknown to me there was a little highlighting in the book. With that exception, the book was in near perfect condition. Who is the tracking with, USPS? I never received the book, I haven’t checked my po box in about 3 days if it’s their I'll mark it. I haven’t been a part of this club long, but I haven’t had any trouble yet. I don't want you to think badly of me, however can we let this go. I'm sorry, and from now on I'll be much more careful. Other than that I'm not really sure what to do. Infinitely Sorry, XXXX

So...PBS members, I'm pretty upset right now. The book I sent is in high demand (there's a movie based on the book that's pretty popular right now) and I got an unpostable in exchange with no apparent willingness to take responsibility. It goes without saying that I'll mark it RWAP and comment on it, but anything else I should do?

Further updates in the string below.

Edited for formatting



Last Edited on: 2/17/09 6:42 PM ET - Total times edited: 5
Date Posted: 2/14/2009 8:22 PM ET
Member Since: 5/18/2007
Posts: 13,187
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You know, I think she was pretty polite. She doesn't have credits. She apologized. What else do you want from her? I also don't like your subject line. I think it's rude to stereotype newbies. We were all new once and this place depends upon new members to survive so gosh, why don't we all intimidate the new ones and make them scurry away afraid to join?!? Great for business. And maybe she didn't get the book. Being "received" simply means it was deliverd ... not signed for so it could have gone to her neighbor, another street over with the same number. It could be anywhere. DC is not a guarantee it got to the correct person. It's guarantee it got dumped in someone's mailbox. So what else should you do? Let it go. I'm betting you have numerous other things to do besides let this bother you.
Date Posted: 2/14/2009 8:55 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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OK I'm confused about a couple of things.  1: How did you do a BOB with a WL book since once you post a WL book it's offered to the 1st person in line. 2: BOBs don't involve credits so I'm not getting that part.  Did you arrange a deal in PMS? This is discouraged from PBS because then there's no way to track the deal.  Textbooks are postable if they have writing or underlining. You just have to PM the requestor with the condition of the book before you mail it out.  This only applies to textbooks and cookbooks because it's hard to use then w/o marking them in some way.

Also just because the DC says it was delivered doesn't mean it was.  I had a book enroute to me go lost recently. The DC says it was delivered on Jan 8th but I have yet to see this book. Who knows where it is but it's not at my house. At this point I'm assuming it was misdelivered. At least the sender used DC and got a credit. 

ETA: also don't generalize newbies.  The last 3 really bad books I've gotten were from long time members who should know that books with big brown stains and loose pages aren't  postable.



Last Edited on: 2/14/09 8:56 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/14/2009 10:15 PM ET
Member Since: 5/16/2008
Posts: 2,146
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I'm actually thinking you do NOT have to PM if there's highlighting or underlining in a text book, because that's part of the allowable rules. So if you order one of those (textbook, cookbook) you take it into account that you may get one in highlighted condition. So, the member did NOT break the rules by not PMing beforehand. Someone may chime in now and say that's not how it is, but I'm pretty positive that because the rules specifically say highlights are allowed in textbooks, you do not have to PM beforehand.

Date Posted: 2/14/2009 10:17 PM ET
Member Since: 5/27/2006
Posts: 11,985
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Here's the info about writing in books from the help center.

No writing or highlighting or underlining on text pages

  • a signature or note on the flyleaf or inside front or back cover is OKAY
  • an author's signature on the title page is OKAY
  • writing or highlighting on the text pages is NOT OKAY
    • Exception: if it is a textbook or workbook, these are expected to have highlighting/underlining/writing
      • if you post a textbook/workbook, the condition must be described to the requestor in a Personal Message
      • AND the described condition MUST BE AGREED TO before the book is sent
      • This is the one of the ONLY two cases in which a PM exchange about a book is required before the book can be sent(the other is for cookbooks--see below).
Date Posted: 2/14/2009 10:18 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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From the help docs:

writing or highlighting on the text pages is NOT OKAY

  • Exception: if it is a textbook or workbook, these are expected to have highlighting/underlining/writing
    • if you post a textbook/workbook, the condition must be described to the requestor in a Personal Message
    • AND the described condition MUST BE AGREED TO before the book is sent
    • This is the one of the ONLY two cases in which a PM exchange about a book is required before the book can be sent(the other is for cookbooks--see below).
Date Posted: 2/14/2009 10:19 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2007
Posts: 11,456
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Actually, highlighting or underlining in a textbook MUST be agreed to in a PM by the requestor before the book is sent.

No writing or highlighting or underlining on text pages

  • a signature or note on the flyleaf or inside front or back cover is OKAY
  • an author's signature on the title page is OKAY
  • writing or highlighting on the text pages is NOT OKAY
    • Exception: if it is a textbook or workbook, these are expected to have highlighting/underlining/writing
      • if you post a textbook/workbook, the condition must be described to the requestor in a Personal Message
      • AND the described condition MUST BE AGREED TO before the book is sent
      • This is the one of the ONLY two cases in which a PM exchange about a book is required before the book can be sent(the other is for cookbooks--see below).
Date Posted: 2/14/2009 10:19 PM ET
Member Since: 3/1/2007
Posts: 1,883
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You do have to PM before sending a textbook with highlighting. From the help center:

*writing or highlighting on the text pages is NOT OKAY

Exception: if it is a textbook or workbook, these are expected to have highlighting/underlining/writing

  • if you post a textbook/workbook, the condition must be described to the requestor in a Personal Message
  • AND the described condition MUST BE AGREED TO before the book is sent
  • This is the one of the ONLY two cases in which a PM exchange about a book is required before the book can be sent
simgirl you can still repost the textbook if you want to. You will just have to PM the member that requests it and tell them about the highlighting. I also agree it's not fair to paint all new members with the same brush. It could have happened with anyone.

Date Posted: 2/14/2009 10:20 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2007
Posts: 11,456
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LOL, and an answer in triplicate quadruple too!



Last Edited on: 2/14/09 10:20 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/14/2009 10:36 PM ET
Member Since: 5/18/2007
Posts: 13,187
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All sent within 2 minutes of each other! lol
Date Posted: 2/14/2009 10:38 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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Yes, she should have gotten you approval on highlighting in a book in following the rules, but...

I also agree that her PM was polite and you are stereotyping new members when many are wonderful traders. Unless you hand delivered the book to her, you have no guarantee that it was delivered to her.

Doing a BoB trade for a WL is going around the system, you do that at your own risk. Trade books through the site and you will be protected by the site's processes, use the site to set up side deals that go around the systems processes, and you will run the risk of getting taken.

 

Date Posted: 2/14/2009 11:46 PM ET
Member Since: 2/19/2008
Posts: 2,007
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Better reread those rules folks...  The way I read them you are required to PM with all textbooks and cookbooks, no matter if they have underlining or not.

Date Posted: 2/15/2009 12:30 AM ET
Member Since: 1/28/2009
Posts: 1,247
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I had tried to comment on this earlier but got an error message and it wiped out my reply. =(

This post bothered me AS a newbie to this site.

I've been here for two weeks (which classifies me as a newbie) =)

I would hate for people to NOT request for order from me, etc because I am new to the site!

I'm also a boxer and in my two weeks have sent out 15 BoB orders besides the credit items sent.

I ship same or next day on everything and keep in contact with people throughout. And I have gotten a book already that is very questionable and the person it came from has been on site for more than 2 years!

I understand someone being upset or feeling taken, or whatever it is that is causing the upset. But it's awful to stereotype that way and to "warn" people to stay away from New members simply because you had an "experience" with someone!

 

 

Date Posted: 2/15/2009 1:50 AM ET
Member Since: 7/1/2008
Posts: 6,625
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Last Edited on: 7/7/10 3:06 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/15/2009 10:15 AM ET
Member Since: 10/19/2006
Posts: 3,343
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Ok, folks I hear what you're saying and I edited the subject line.   However, I think it was/is appropriate to note she's a newbie because she HAS NOT read any of the posting guidelines. And she herself keeps saying "I'm new" .  She is new.  It's a fact, not an insult, and unfortunately, I think newbies are at times less familiar with the rules -- and she is using her "new" status as the reason the rules don't apply since she didn't know what they were.  Does that mean all newbies are bad?  Of course not -- and that's not what I said or intended, even with an ill-worded subject line.

I apologize to any newbies offended by my subject line -- it was not my intention to paint all new members with a bad brush. That said, if I scared off newbies --or oldies -- who don't intend to follow PBS guidelines, I'm not that concerned.

Mrslefty, this was a BoB trade.    The other boxer did not follow PBS guidelines on textbooks.  And she appears to not intend to, at least from her latest PM (not posted here).

I would not have agreed to this trade had she PMd and said "this is a textbook with highlighting" since I didn't have that much interest in the book in the first place, but rather was trying to work out a BoB trade with a newbie.  I used DC because I always do, but no, I did not receive any credit OR a book that I consider postable.

When the BoB went south, we had a few polite PMs back and forth.

This PM was part of a long string of PMs, several of which say things like "the book is readable, so why not drop this?"

She received Confessions of A Shopaholic for a textbook, and one I wouldn't have taken had I known I might get stuck with it.  Can I just let it go?  Yes, I can...but I have/had 10 BoB offers for books in that series stacked up in my box right now.  And yes, I am upset about people who don't follow the PBS guidelines.

I do think that since her book went to a post office box, and has been there a week, that yes, it was received as per DC notation.

She said she did check for it when she was at the post office three days ago  -- and had she noted the DC number, she could have reported it lost.  But apparently she didn't understand what a DC number is, so maybe she'll go and do that sometime next week.



Last Edited on: 2/16/09 2:26 AM ET - Total times edited: 5
Date Posted: 2/15/2009 10:43 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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I'm still not understanding how you did an official BOB deal with a WL book.  Did you post it directly to her and then refund the credit?  If she didn't have a book you wanted why would you do that or a BOB trade at all for a WL book.  It's ok to turn down BOB offers.

Also I didn't say that becuase it was a BOB she didn't have to follow the rules. I stated that textbooks with underlining were posteable because you said they weren't.  So you can post the textbook she sent you.  Yes she should have PM you with the writing/highlighting in it-but it's still postable as a textbook.

Date Posted: 2/15/2009 10:48 AM ET
Member Since: 10/19/2006
Posts: 3,343
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Sometimes books that are WL are not yet requested by someone and they're still on your shelf.  In this case, I think it depends on the ISBN due to various editions. Perhaps that was poorly worded on my part, but in any case, the series is in high demand right now due to the movie. I have not ever said textbooks with highlighting "weren't postable" -- but I did say the other boxer sent without notifying me first, which is against PBS rules.

 

I know it's OK to turn down BoB offers, but I figured I could always repost AND I was trying to be nice to a newbie and help her along with BoB offers.

I don't think the textbook is postable, but yes, technically, I *could* post it for credit and hope someone else would accept it (doubtful, i'ts a bit obscure).

Unfortunately, I'll have to be more circumspect in the future about my BoB trades.  I don't think it's right or fair to ignore PBS guidelines in a trade here, even in BoB, even if you're new, or especially if you're not. 

 

UPDATE:  My fellow boxer is adamant that she is allowed to post books with highlighting, sans PM to me beforehand.  She sent the following this afternoon:

 

There is no reason why you can't repost the book.

"…if it is a textbook or workbook, these are expected to have highlighting/underlining/writing" (from PBS)

If I gave you a credit then you are the one receiving two books and I one as you put it. How is that any more fair? It’s not. There is nothing stopping you from reposting the book on the site and getting a credit for it once you've had a chance to read it.

She quoted the PBS help text and omitted the part about notifying the other member first via PM. 

UPDATE 2/17:

I have had contact with two Postmasters today.  The local Postmaster called the other boxer's Postmaster and verified that the book was delivered on the 7th of February.  Because the other boxer uses a PO Box, the package was logged in at their facility before being delivered.  The reason is that it had to go to a package locker, and a key needed to be provided to the other boxer to pick it up.

The locker was re-used by the Post Office on the 9th of February.  So for all intents and purposes, it looks like *someone* with access to the other boxer's post office box got the key to the package locker and picked up the package between Feb. 7-9th.  It was DEFINITELY received at her box, there is no question about mis-delivery.  Just about who may have picked it up using a key to that box.

She has not yet marked the book as received.  She marked it after I posted this.

I have to say, she does not understand PBS rules and procedure, and does not believe she did anything incorrectly.  Unfortunately, I do think this is because she didn't read the guidelines first, AND because she's relatively new around here.  It should not have taken multiple reports to PBS to get her to mark it received, nor should I have been "held hostage" regarding my feedback in order for her to mark received.

 



Last Edited on: 2/17/09 7:54 PM ET - Total times edited: 7