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Topic: Childish Behaviour

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Subject: Childish Behaviour
Date Posted: 2/18/2009 10:01 AM ET
Member Since: 7/20/2007
Posts: 1,046
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As i mentioned in a previous thread of mine, i have had a few bad books lately. Two books actually had some water damage, so i marked them RWAP. It wasn't a big deal. One book, i wanted my credit back but ended up giving it up because the lady went on a tangent about how she hadn't been here long and thought it was ridiculous that i was giving her a hard time about a paperback book, and maybe she just didn't belong on this site.

I thought that was kind of an over-the-top reaction, so i told her not to worry about the credit, and tried to explain to her a couple thing about the site.

Then yesterday, i got another book barely in the package but with previous water damage, and i asked for my credit back and gave her the guidelines out of the Help Docs that would have helped her package better, and she comes back and tells me she's NEVER had a problem here before and she packed it quite well, thank you very much.

Ok, well it's good she thinks so. So i asked again for my credit back.

I came online to a PM saying if i could tell her how to give my credit back that would be fine then gave me this emotional rant on why she'd had a bad day, and then said that i could complain to PBS and get my credit back and while i was there, tell them she QUITS.

Um. Alrighty then. Drama mama. I told her if she was going to quit PBS over ONE book, i doubted i was her only problem here. I mean come on.

She did figure out how to give it back, but i just have to ask how many other people are getting these childish replies? That's two in a row for me. It's bizarre.

My patience is not unlimited. I used to be blase about whatever i got, except in severe cases, but it wastes too many credits if you start getting books that are not postable. Especially off my Wish List, i have tons of people behind me for these books so i can't repost them and get a credit back on them!

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 10:23 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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I had a long time member send me a WL book with brown stains all over it.  She told me "she got it that way and I was being too picky and don't ever order a book from her again".  Well a longtime member would know that jsut becuase she got it that way doesn't mean it's ok to pass it on and with FIFO how am I supposed to know I am ordering a book from her untils it's been ordered. 

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 10:35 AM ET
Member Since: 12/29/2008
Posts: 6,386
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I will say hearing all these stories makes me really appreciate when I get a nice email from someone I've sent a book to thanking me for the book and noting that it is in great condition.  I know there was a thread a while ago commenting that the thank you was unnecessary, but I will say for myself that I really appreciate hearing from people when they are happy about the books they have received.  I'm sorry that people have been having so much trouble, I've only had one issue so I know it can be frustrating but I've been lucky that in that case the person was so nice and gave me my credit right back.  Hope things turn around for all of you that have been having a string of issues.

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 11:02 AM ET
Member Since: 5/16/2008
Posts: 2,203
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From what I read on these forums, Tracey, you are NOT alone. (I don't mean the people ON the forums are childish. They just report the behavior.) I'm amazed at the responses people get - it's like they fly off the handle and flip out because they're being "called" on breaking the site rules. It's like they feel too good, or above the rules, and "how dare you" call them on it. Well, you wrote a very polite and well worded post, so I'm sure your PM was the same, and I don't think you did anything wrong. Now, I'm sure someone will come on here and say "You don't know what's going on in their lives, they could have had family trouble, etc" but I don't think it (a) excuses breaking the site's rules or (b) writing you rude emails. Unfortunately, I think it's just going to be part of the (hopefully small) ratio you get between great/neutral transactions and crummy ones.

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 11:19 AM ET
Member Since: 6/21/2007
Posts: 2,015
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Last Edited on: 2/3/15 6:13 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/18/2009 11:31 AM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,804
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I find a lot of people childish, on here and off.   It's maddening isn't it?   A lot of people can't take responsibility for their actions and then act outraged when you call them on it.    Sorry, this situation is happening to you.

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 11:44 AM ET
Member Since: 2/2/2009
Posts: 81
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I'm amazed what people would send to other members (water staining). I would never send a book that wasn't in the PBS guidelines, why would anyone want to receive one. So all the "childish" members need to watch what they are doing and accept they did wrong. It's like that saying, "do unto others as you would want done to you".

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 12:05 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2009
Posts: 58
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I'm pretty new and so far I've been lucky and everyone I've dealt with has been great! (knock on wood!) I'm sorry you had to deal with that. I'm guessing we all will at some point and I'm not looking forward to it!

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 1:27 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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Funny - but not - but when I first joined, I was so paranoid at first, I wouldn't post any books I had that were published before 1990, because they looked old.  All of them were perfectly postable, but I was trying to be careful, you see:P  I still hadn't read very much from the help docs aside from looking at the conditions guidelines, because I couldn't take all of it in at once, and I figured posting guidelines were the most important thing to know.  Except for I really didn't "know" them, I had just looked them over once.  A little caution and a lot of books in good condition goes a long way though.  In my first couple of months, I received a sci-fi book I had ordered for my son, and it had this big rectangular section cut out of the front cover.  And I mean big, for a paperback, like 3 inches wide by 4 inches long.  My son & I were both disappointed, but I marked the book received, ordered another copy & moved on.  I didn't realize it didn't meet the standards here; I just assumed that if another member sent it to me, then it must.  I didn't mark it RWAP, but I did make a note in the comments to PBS box.   A week or two later, I ordered Watership Down for my son, and I got a PM from the sender saying that the copy she sent me was in poor condition, so she had included another book with it.  I thought, "Oh, how nice of her.", and thanked her for being so thoughtful.  This is how dumb I was:P  I got that book, and sure enough, it was a falling apart mess.  It wasn't until I started looking at the discussion forums on the site, which was several months into my membership, and lurking and reading on this board, that it finally dawned on me that I had best start reading the help docs and get very familiar with the site rules.  I've gotten a couple of RWAP books since then, but at least I had sense enough to start marking them.  When I see unpostable books come through here, or read some of the horror stories, I almost take it as a given that the people sending those books - whether they've been here a short time or for years - probably aren't very familiar with the rules.  Somebody can tell me they've been a member here for years and never had a problem, and I think, yeah, but have they read the help docs & the posting guidelines yet?

Last Edited on: 2/18/09 1:33 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 2/18/2009 1:55 PM ET
Member Since: 10/13/2007
Posts: 36,445
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I find people in general childish when they get caught doing something wrong that they KNOW is wrong. Working with the public, you get to learn when someone is lying and when someone is really surprised.  Alot of the replies I have read here come across as they knew it was wrong to send the book and get upset when called on it.  Plus couple that with so many people feeling they are entitled to break rules because they are special in some way (ie no money, sick, long time member).

Sorry but soon as you click "I can send it by this date" you are telling PBS that your book is meeting the rules and you are sending it the way the rules state.  
I have had two books damaged during storing (one via a coke accident while taking it to be wrapped for mailing) as so I declined those requests and explained they no longer met PBS rules.

Sucks that people are trying to screw other memebers and then act like spolied babies. (Even children play by the rules)

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 2:36 PM ET
Member Since: 7/20/2007
Posts: 1,046
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Well, NOW i am insensitive because i told her i doubted i was her only problem if she was going to leave the site over one book.

You know, because she had a bad day.

I try to be really nice to people here, but it seems to never fail, that faced with a problem, people get upset and want to pitch a fit over it. How hard is it just to say 'I'm sorry this transaction didn't go well' and give a credit back without being all huffy?

I am not a BIG trader on here, i've only sent out 45 books, so i know i have had at least 5 or 6 books have problems (usually water damage) in about 30 sent to me, and i am counting that based on how many credits i have stored up, i trade out way more than i order because i tend to find books everwhere i want to read, not just here, so i don't need too many. Mostly my credits go to deals because i find it's a good use of credits that way. I've actually had more problems on Wish Listed books than anything so far, and those are the ones i really care the most about because one particular book i have had on my WL for about a year now and it is finally coming through. They aren't any more special than any other book except for the fact that they're almost a guaranteed credit back.

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 2:43 PM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2009
Posts: 227
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Last Edited on: 2/7/10 10:04 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/18/2009 2:55 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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Unfortunately there is no way to avoid a bad swapper other than making a note of their name.  However please keep in mind that most swaps are ended with both parties happy.  It seems like their are a lot of bad swaps because that's what people post about. But the majority of PBS members dont' even use the forums and few people post about the really great swaps. 

I've received close to 400 books if you count BOBs, deals and games.  I think I've marked maybe 5 as bad so that's a pretty low percentage.  Have I gotten some books that I wouldn't have posted but I didn't mark RWP? Yes. You have to keep in mind that this is a used book site and every book gets to it's last person as a postable book.  Sometimes that person is you.  So I don't mark the books that are borderline or the flaw is so hard to notice that anyone could have missed it and I'm lucky I even caught it. 

PBS will close the accoutn of someone who gets a lot of RWP's.  I don't know what the specific number is to get someone out.  I think it depends on the time frame of them and how the sender responds to them.  They'll be able to look back and see that this person was rude as the PMS are attatched to the RWP.  So if there's a pattern of this behaviour then there account will be suspended.

I think some people think that because a book is WL that they can bypass the rules. That the requestor will be so happy to have that WL book that they won't mind that it's unpostable.

Last Edited on: 2/18/09 2:57 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/18/2009 3:08 PM ET
Member Since: 1/11/2009
Posts: 176
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I haven't been with PBS too long myself, but long enough to have a bad experience.  The first book I ever received was in the wrong cover....it was PB instead of HC and it also had multiple tears on the pages.  I didn't want to cause any waves being new and decided to credit the person anyway.  I didn't realize the tear were there until after I sent them a PM saying that there was a mistake in how they listed the book and I could understand how it happened and I was going to go ahead and give them the credit anyway.  I never received a reply saying "Sorry", "Thank you" or anything.  Live and learn!  I now check all of my books thoroughly when I get them before marking it received.  I also agree with Christine.  I think that is nice to get a "Thank You" for sending a book that arrives in good condition.  I have sent thank you's and will continue to do so.  I have said this in a another post, that I wish that there was a way to leave feedback or rate the members that you have dealt with so that you can see what their reputation is before ordering a book from them.  I honestly think it would help eliminate some of the bad transactions.  Am I wrong in thinking this way?

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 3:30 PM ET
Member Since: 7/20/2007
Posts: 1,046
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I have only marked books RWAP if it was water damaged or in one case, the book had been mauled by a dog on one corner, lol.

I mark water damage RWAP, even if it's not tremendously bad because i don't want to encourage other people to keep sending them. I will not the the propagator of the 'Well someone else thought a book similar to that was alright, why are you complaining?' argument.

I think it is a random streak of bad luck for me. I have often been the recipient of wonderful books in fabulous condition.

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 3:53 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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Since PBS works on a first in/first out basis it would be hard to implement the feedback/ranking idea.

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 4:30 PM ET
Member Since: 1/7/2009
Posts: 4
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how about after you say you can mail it you pm the member with a heads up and do they still desire the book sent?

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 4:36 PM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2009
Posts: 39
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The book I  post looks  ANYTHING less than new, I PM the person BEFORE i even accept the request and describe it (I will even MEASURE a crease or tear), offering to email a photo. I just never know what someone else expects from a "used" book, so I figure that I should at least ask. I am posting within guidelines and if they ask for their credit back I am likely not to give it to them if they agreed it was acceptable without asking for a photo. If my packing job fails and the book is damaged and would be unpostable, or it is just obliterated, I will just give them their credit back. There's no fool proof packing method, and if USPS continually damages books and I get annoyed, I will begin insuring them at my own expense for their retail value or highest used price online. Then at the very least I can buy myself a credit and refund theirs without really being out much more than my time.  

People can be really quite RUDE sometimes, and I try not to let them get to me. I am new here, and I'm sure I will have an issue with a book I receive, or eventually a book I send will not be up to someone elses standards. Sometimes people speak differently when they type and it comes across ALL wrong and others are just flat out nasty. Personally I dont like to argue, so if its HONESTLY that bad to them, Im likely to just give them their credit back and let it go. If i find out they are taking advantage of me, then I will simply decline any request and ignore them. The bad apples will always go away eventually, and we will surely have new ones come along, ultimately dealing with the issues is a risk we take and accept when we join the site. I think the feedback thing is a GREAT idea, because if we describe condition in a listing interpretations of "condition" are always a difference of opinion. Of course as mary said it would be hard to impliment as far as the FIFO system, but surely theres a way based on how many RWAPs any one user has had. But, alas it is the internet and we are subject to whatever the owner decides is the best system.

To those who have had problems with books sent or received, I do feel for you and hope that things get better. All we can do is focus on the GOOD books we have received and the friends we have made and look forward to the good transactions and enjoy the benefits of the site. Or at least thats my 2 cents!


Date Posted: 2/18/2009 5:54 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2007
Posts: 11,671
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truckinmomma, it's impossible for the sender to PM the receiver before they accept the request and describe a book condition.  If your book meets the PBS posting guidelines, there's no need to describe every little flaw in it before sending it out.

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 6:19 PM ET
Member Since: 8/19/2007
Posts: 4,393
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I think some people think that because a book is WL that they can bypass the rules. That the requestor will be so happy to have that WL book that they won't mind that it's unpostable.

Sure wish there was some way though to contact those who have WLd books, but wouldn't mind if they were slightly damaged, as I have 6 sitting on my desk I'd love to send to someone, but have no way of making contact, and some have a lot of people wishing for them.  Sigh!!  Pat


Date Posted: 2/18/2009 6:39 PM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
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I'm fairly sure there is a thread for unpostable wishlist books in the bazaar.

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 6:55 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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Truckinmamma you are making this so much more work than it needs to be. 

Pat: come check out the Damaged Books Virtual Box .  It's 2 credits to join but you get them back when you no longer participate. It's just insurance incase you don't mail your books out.  We are taking sign ups for a new round now.  I joined this because I had a lot of unpostable WL books and with this you can exchange it for another book. Granted it's another unpostable book but still readable.  Most of the books I"ve gotten from the box have only had some minor defect that made them unpostable. 

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 6:56 PM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2006
Posts: 4,110
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I've sent out just a little over 200 books, and received just under that amount in return, and of those I have had maybe 3 or 4 unpostable books, but not in such bad shape that they are icky or anything, they were quite readable, and I offered them as freebies in the bazaar.  The only one I asked for my credit back, remains unresolved as it was an ARC, now I have nothing against ARC's, and often order them as freebies, in one case I buddied a credit for one because they didn't have a book I wanted on their shelf, but I really wanted to read the book.  In this case however I wasn't in a hurry and actually wanted the real book.  Basically we did the whole "send me the book back and I'll cheerfully refund your credit" dance, then it was, "I haven't been online because we have a forced evac due to fires here" which I understood, she said she would contact me as soon as she got back home. 

That was September, I don't think I'll be hearing from her anytime soon.

Pat, take a look at my WL, if you have an unpostable that's there I'll consider it, especially if I am at the end of the line LOL

Date Posted: 2/18/2009 6:58 PM ET
Member Since: 8/12/2006
Posts: 387
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The more childish/aggressive/nasty someone is when you politely describe why a book they sent you was unpostable, the more absolutely certain I am that the sender knew exactly what she was doing when she sent the bad book.

The worst was a woman who sent me a book with huge chunks of pages falling out, who flat-out accused me, not even of lying about the book's condition, but of ripping the book apart myself. Yeah, I don't know either. She was so nasty in her PMs that I reported it to TPTB, so I at least have the satisfaction of knowing she has a black mark on her account.

Last Edited on: 2/18/09 7:04 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Subject: Childish behavior
Date Posted: 2/18/2009 7:49 PM ET
Member Since: 11/18/2005
Posts: 5,445
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I have been a member here since 2005 and have received, to date, one book that was unpostable and was offered my credit back for it, but I declined it.  I have also had a couple of books that I received as a HB but I requested a paperback.  Ate those credit too!