I've been waiting for this wishlist book, Wicked, and I specifically ordered a hardcover copy of the book. I was finally granted my wish and I pm'd the sender after accepting to make sure this was a hardcover copy since this is what I wanted and this is what was listed. I never received an answer to my pm so I figured it must be a hardcover copy since it was then immediately mailed and I never got a response. Today I received the book, wrapped in two pages of printer paper (no problem there according to the guidelines I know), hardly any tape, one side completely torn open through the mail and several pages of the softcover book very krinkled due to them being totally exposed in the mail.

I have pm'd the sender to ask for my credit back, but this is just completely frustrating to me.

Fun, isn't it? I am so frustrated with this site that I am ready to close my account as soon as I get my last two books that are on their way.

I got a book on Monday that was packaged just fine but the book was destroyed. The binding was completely seperate from over 1/2 of the book. I took a suggestion that I had read on the boards. I asked for my credit back, offered pictures of the book & copy & pasted the rules about the binding.

I got a PM back stating the book was brand new & only read once & they were not giving me my credit back.

I have ordered too many books for them to be in this condition & FAR too many show up this way. I am going back to Goodwill & half price books.At least, I KNOW what condition the book is in before I decide to buy it.

Mary Lou: I feel your pain - the majority of my RWAP books have been wrong binding types. Take your pick of:

"well, it's the same book - whaddya want for nothing - this is a USED book site, you shouldn't be so picky"

Just refer them to the relevant Help section, ask nicely for your credit back and move on. Frustrating - but not so bad in the big picture of PBS Goodness! :-)

Zoburg - Please don't let a few bad apples ruin everything for you - they really are the exception, not the rule, honest! Look up the posting on stats of RWAP transactions. You're just having a run of bad luck - it'll be ok!

I will never understand why it's so difficult for people to follow the rules. It's really not that hard! lol

agreed, Zoburg, please don't close your account.  These really are not the common thing that happens here.  You've just had a run of bad luck. 

And Mary Lou, so sorry this happened!  That book should not have been posted to begin with (of course) and it's a bummer that the person not only blatantly disregarded the sites rules, but then ignored your PM before sending out the book.  You did what you were supposed to do!  :)

I would let the PBS people know that even though you asked before they mailed the book and didn't answer - they still sent the wrong book type.  Pretty blatant there.  I think we all get sucker-punched every time there is a new media blitz about PBS and we get an avalanche of new members "lured" by the thought of "free" books. They get here and discover the books cost to mail as do the packing material and work is involved (wrapping and addressing the book).  Some just don't get it, some don't read the guidelines, some just don't care.  It is a pain.  But if we persist and hold the line on postability then we will be pretty well off in the long run.  Please don't leave.

Ruth

Yup, I would agree with Ruthy, publicity is a double-edged sword. More members posting a wider variety of books certainly increases the possibility that you will get the books you want, but it also increases the number of people who want 'something for nothing' and who post a bunch of books without even looking at the site rules or knowing how the site works.Of course, there have been plenty of mentions of long-time members sending problematic books, too, so it's certainly not just new members guilty of sending crap/wrong books.

Was the ISBN on the book the correct one? Make sure to mention that if they had different ISBNs. My pet peeve is people who list books by author and title and not the ISBN as they're supposed to. I mean, how hard is it to type in a few numbers?? I'm assuming you did mark the book RWAP (Received with a Problem) and in the comment line, let PBS know that you had sent a PM to the member BEFORE they mailed it to verify that it was a hardcover and didn't get a response? That, and asking for the credit back directly from the sender (and letting them know that you've notified PBS of the problem) is really about all you can do. As long as you marked it RWAP, the hardcover version should go back on your wishlist and you'll resume your spot in the WL line.

Cheryl

Just thowing this out there:

There's another thread in this forum asking about binding.  On Amazon says it's HB, PBS says it's PB, and the copy the member has is HB but shares the ISBN with the PB.  (One ISBN - two bindings. Lots of confusing)

When I post to my shelf, I double & triple check that the ISBN that I typed matches the ISBN that I entered, and I hope I wouln't miss checking that the binding matches, but I guess it could happen.

(Ignoring the PM, I have in no excuse for that... unless the wrapper was already printed & the sender doesn't check PBS as frequently as others do, maybe?)

ETA: typos & punctuation

Thank you all for your uplifting comments. I appreciate it. For me personally, when I post a book with an ISBN number, I make sure if it says paperback, I definitelyl have the paperback and if it says hardback, the same. Melissa, the wrapper had not been printed as I accepted and immediately sent a PM. It was actually days before the label was printed.

Yes, I did mark it RWAP and told PBS what had happened. I also immediately PM'd the sender explaining that it was the wrong book. I hadn't checked the ISBN number. I did in fact ask for my credit back. Hopefully, I will get a response soon.

I have been having a problem with one specific book. I want to read the Outlander series, but the mass market paperback is too small a print for me to read so I carefully went through and found the hardbacks and Trade size paperbacks that the Author herself recommended. I have received 3 mm paperbacks so far, all with the wrong ISBN numbers, all with no response from the sender thus no credit back. I have re-posted all of them and still I only have 1 trade size of the first book. Oh well.....

Good news is, My wish list has been going crazy lately and I am getting really good quality books of all of these. I don't mind putting up with a few problems, and I have found several wonderful PBS ers that are trading unpostables/arcs with me so that we can all benefit and read these. I guess you have to take a few bad with a lot of good. I will take those odds.

Well yeah, Melissa, I can see a mistake being made as sometimes the ISBN applies to all bindings and I could understand someone making that mistake one time--although it DOES ask each time you post a book if the title, author, binding and ISBN match. Hopefully if that is the case, the member will make things right by refunding the credit. We all make mistakes! I made one a few months back because I didn't notice that the title of the book had changed just before publication and I had wishlisted the book under the old title. I didn't notice it when I got the book from another member, but the member I sent it to did. I promptly returned the credit and advised her to send an edit book data--which I should have caught and done, but didn't. My bad...I'll pay for my inattention.

But if the label hadn't been printed and the person had to logon to print a label, they should have gotten MaryLou's PM, too, and been able to cancel the order when she made a specific inquiry about the binding type. I don't have much hope that this person is interested in doing the right thing, but I hope I'm wrong!

Rebecca, that is SO frustrating! I've only had 6 RWAP books out of the over 1,250 that I've received over the past few years and two of the RWAPs were for wrong books--right title and author, wrong ISBN and binding. These were among the few books I'm trying to get in hardcover for my Keeper shelf--I don't care if they're well-loved, don't have a dustjacket, are ex-library...I have no RCs. But I *do* expect people to post their books by the ISBN so I get the hardcover version, not the mass mkt paperback that I've already read! Argh!

But as you say, a great majority of books I've received here have been in great shape, and 99% of swaps go smooth as silk with no problems at all.  There are a lot of things I'd give up before I'd willingly give up PBS!

Cheryl

Quick question . . . if you report something as RWAP, are you required to return the book to the sender?  I'm not sure about that, and the cases that i have read about here, there seems to be a different answer each time.

I've been very happy with all my transactions here, I'm thrilled to just get books. I think people need to remember that this is a place to swap USED books, and that all books are not in pristine shape and will be in varying degrees of condition. Yes, sometimes you will get a Like New book, and other times you will get a Thoroughly Used Book - just the nature of the game.  I've never had any issues, but sometimes I see photos of books that people are reporting as a problem swap and I'm shocked . . . not at the book shape but more along the lines of "you are getting your panties in a wad about THAT?"  That sort of thing.  These are USED books, for cripes sake!  I mean, if you want a NEW  pristine copy of that book  well, just go buy one! ;-)

I'm terrified that some of my mass market paperbacks are going to be marked as RWAP . . . they are all great books, in great shape, but they are USED, read a couple of times, so yes the spine is a bit wonky, or a few of the pages are a bit curled, or the cover has a crease. It's the nature of mass market paperbacks - they get a bit more damage and wear and tear.   But seeing some of the photos that people get upset about, I'm really shocked that they get upset, when I see a perfectly good book used book and would be thrilled to get the book.  I see the photos that people post of problem transactions and it makes rethink my Bookshelf Listings.  My listings follow the rules completely, but still . . . sometimes I think people are just too picky about something they are essentially getting for free.

Just me, I guess. *shrugs*

I think that the real issue is when people do not follow PACKAGING guidelines.  I think that is when PBS really needs to step up and lay down some sort of fine, or punishment to the account in terms of taking away credits to people who do not wrap properly.  Three strikes you're out kind of thing. It sucks, but the rules are crystal clear about packaging your books for mailing.  The condition of a book,I think is more subjective - sometimes people are just happy to get a copy to read and other times people want pristine copies . . .but with packaging, I do wish PBS could go and smack some people around. Or at least knock on their door and throw a roll of packing tape at them.  ;-)

(Honestly, I think the idea of wrapping a book in printer paper is just ridiculous.I would never, ever do that, especially for Media Mail. I wish the rules were that it must be mailed in a padded envelope. Period. End of discussion. Because Media Mail is so rough, the extra protection is needed. Again, just me. ;-))

Love me some paperbackswap though.  Again, I've had great transactions and have received perfectly acceptable copies of very, very used books.

Laura T

The books are NOT free. I either buy a credit or pay for shipping in order to get a book. When a book is literally falling apart at the seams and it was a wishlist book to boot, you bet I am complaining!

I can get books cheaper @ goodwill, half price books or FOL sales. Plus doing those things I have the option of not purchasing crappy books that have HALF of the pages not connected to the book.

If you are happy to get books in that condition , more power to you but for me as soon as I get my last 2 books, I am out of here.

I am NOT wasting anymore time or money for books that are garbage.

Zoburg . . . I wasn't singling you, or anyone out. Chill out, dude.

"When a book is literally falling apart at the seams and it was a wishlist book to boot, you bet I am complaining!" 

I'd complain too.   That was not the point of my post.   Again, chill out.

"If you are happy to get books in that condition , more power to you."

Again, you missed the point of what I was saying. I never, ever said that books that don't meet the guidelines were acceptable, What I was trying to say was that sometimes people have different definitions of 'used' - some people think 'used' means, "read once and only once." Other people think Used means, "read many times, has a bit of wear to it, passed around to many readers, but still in great readable shape."  That's all.  Of course, books that are missing pages are not acceptable.

"The books are NOT free. "

I didnt say they were free, I said they were 'essentially free.'  Of COURSE, people pay for postage in order to amass a credit.  Sometimes you pay around $2.40 to $3 in Media Mail postage to get a credit, but you you can turn that around to get ANY book, including Hardback books, valued at $30. It all comes out in the wash, and many times (in terms of actual money) you get a GREAT AMAZING DEAL on a book.  Most of my transactions have been me unloading paperback books and swapping for hardbacks. Great deal for me.

"I can get books cheaper @ goodwill, half price books or FOL sales."

Of course you can. Everyone can. But you do not always have the SELECTION that is offered by Paperbackswap. 

"I am NOT wasting anymore time or money for books that are garbage."

95% of transactions do not go this way. You seem to have had a train of bad luck.  Tis a shame. It's a great system here, but like everything in life, nothing works perfectly.  But overall, this swap site has a great reputation of working well.

Laura- you are NEVER required to return the book in a RWAP situation. 

If the person wants it back, it's up to you to decide if you want to send it.  If they want it back they need to refund you two credits (one for the RWAP, one to cover your postage) or one credit and postage for the return. 

Even in that case, it's still up to you if you want to do it or not.  It's perfectly ok to decline because you don't want the extra hassle. 

There's a nice section Help that describes this. 

I love this site, and like Laura, my tolerance for books (received) is pretty high; as long as I can read the book, I'm fine with it (I have given suggestions on wrapping, though).  On the other hand, because I don't want to argue with anyone, what I send out, is held to a higher standard. Life is too short, to argue over a book, IMO ;)

Laura- you are NEVER required to return the book in a RWAP situation. If the person wants it back, it's up to you to decide if you want to send it.  If they want it back they need to refund you two credits (one for the RWAP, one to cover your postage) or one credit and postage for the return. 

Thanks for the reply . . . and that is what I thought, per the rules. But I saw so many discussions about credits for returning the RWAP book, I just wanted to ask again. I wouldn't want to be out of postage costs either!!

On the other hand, because I don't want to argue with anyone, what I send out, is held to a higher standard. Life is too short, to argue over a book, IMO ;)

I agree with you!  And that is why I posted that I was rethinking my Bookshelf listings. A few of them are perfectly acceptable per the RULES of the site, and I would be THRILLED  to receive a copy in that shape, but they are indeed worn used books, that I may just reconsider altogether sending out, just to avoid possible drama. Which is a shame - cuz I would hate for people to not get books!

I love this site . . . I have been able to track down some titles here that I have not been able to find through used book stores or other outlets!! 

Oh, all of my books fall well within the guidelines, it's just some threads I read (and see the photos) and I'm amazed at what people get upset about! A lot of it is questionable postings, but a lof ot fhem are also books that I see photos of and think, "well, heck if it was a book I desperately wanted to read and own, I wouldn't mind putting it on my shelf at home as a keeper!"

I'd be happy to get titles I have been looking for!

Laura, I tend to share your views.  I can shop at half price books or a thrift store, but that is a real crap shoot as far as getting books I want.   I love PBS and have read so many books that I wouldn't have found at a cost of $2.50 anywhere!

I have had a few books sent to me that I believe do NOT meet the club rules.  I wasnt careful enough and marked them received before discovering the problem so have never marked a RWAP.  The most recent was a large hardback with was in really great shape except about 50 pages in the middle have that severe waving indicative of water damage.  It was still very readable and honestly looked like a new book except that.  In some ways, I think it is kind of over the top that the rules are so tight it is not postable.  Anyway, I do follow the rules so I won't post this book even though it has a waiting list...

The OP hasn't been happy, so it makes sense to move on.  I guess it just depends on your own circumstances.

So how long do you give someone to respond to your PM before you mark the problem not resolved? Just wondering. Also, how do you know if you've been given a credit by someone without them sending you a PM? I had forgotten how many credits I had, so not sure if possibly one had been added back. Is there anyway to tell?

"it's just some threads I read (and see the photos) and I'm amazed at what people get upset about!"

Cite, please? I really haven't seen many photos of RWAP books that didn't violate the rules. That doesn't mean you're not right; just that I haven't seen many. Of course, I don't typicallly go looking.. but if there's that many, I would have thought they'd be more obvious. What proportion of these photos documenting "NON-rule-violation" are you seeing?

(ETA formatting)

Mary Lou asked: So how long do you give someone to respond to your PM before you mark the problem not resolved? Just wondering. Also, how do you know if you've been given a credit by someone without them sending you a PM? I had forgotten how many credits I had, so not sure if possibly one had been added back. Is there anyway to tell?

It's best if you set that limit in the initial PM...something like, "I would like to have my credit back within a week and if I haven't heard from you by then I will mark this transaction as unresolved." And then follow through. If you didn't set a time limit on it to begin with, I'd send a second PM a couple days later letting them know you will mark the transaction as not resolved if there is no reply by ____ date.

If you look at your credit registry (a link found on your main account page) you will see the green (+ credits) and red (- credits) and how they were obtained or spent. If someone gifts you a credit it will show there as well.

Cheryl