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Topic: Would you consider this unpostable?

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Geri (geejay) -
Subject: Would you consider this unpostable?
Date Posted: 2/27/2010 8:10 AM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2008
Posts: 9,094
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I received a book and didn't pay a great deal of attention to it when I did.  Shame on me.

I was reading it and wondered why it was so wavy.  I'm not sure if it's one of those new books with wavy pages or if it's been subjected to high humidity.  There's no staining so it's not water damaged.  In fact there's a smudge on the side like a pencil mark - doesn't affect the inside at all.

The main question is toward the middle of the book down at the bottom right hand page there's a small cut.  It's about 1/4" in size, about 1/8" from the bottom and side of the page.  It's about 20 pages and doesn't affect the text at all.  It's below the print.

Would you consider the book unpostable because of these two conditions?  The reading isn't affected at all - but...

Date Posted: 2/27/2010 8:18 AM ET
Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,995
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I've been noticing the wavy page thing a lot lately. Materials getting cheaper I guess. It's not "water damage" so I wouldn't worry about it. The sliced pages would be your call. There's nothing specific about that in the guidelines, so it may just count as normal wear and tear...

edit to add> I've flattened out warped pages on some paperbacks by stacking a pile of books on top and leaving it for a week or two.

Last Edited on: 2/27/10 8:20 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/27/2010 8:59 AM ET
Member Since: 8/6/2006
Posts: 1,619
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I wouldn't mark it RWAP but that's just me.

Date Posted: 2/27/2010 9:35 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,213
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 It's about 20 pages and doesn't affect the text at all. 

Unless it was clearly a production flaw I would say 20 cut pages would be the same as 20 torn pages and unpostable soI would not post it. Why take the risk sending the book?

Date Posted: 2/27/2010 10:50 AM ET
Member Since: 6/25/2009
Posts: 115
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I might consider the wavy pages water damage.   It depends on what it looks like.   Water doesn't always cause staining.  (Nor does it always make pages fuzzy like some folks say).   High humidity is high water in the air and thus to me, water damage.

The book sounds like a gray area to me.   If there are no other copies in the system, I would probably post it.   But I would never mail it without first PMing the requestor and describing its condition.

Date Posted: 2/27/2010 11:10 AM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2007
Posts: 3,044
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My first thought: If I received a book with the torn pages I'd probably ask here if it was appropriate to mark it an RWAP.

I think if you choose to post it you should definitely PM about it. Get approval because some might not mind, but you want to be sure so you don't get a RWAP.

Date Posted: 2/27/2010 11:15 AM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2007
Posts: 1,410
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I think the cut pages would make it unpostable.   The wavy pages, if they're from cheap production should be OK.

Date Posted: 2/27/2010 2:13 PM ET
Member Since: 9/20/2009
Posts: 125
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I work for a book company and merchandise books in lots of different kinds of stores. I can tell you new books come in in this condition. Unfortunately, a lot of the time the wavy pages are a result of  weather conditions during shipping, also cheaper production materials. The cut pages are probably from a razor used to open the packages, sometimes your hand will slip and yes cut only the pages in the middle not affecting the covers. Just FYI.....

I would have PMed you and let you decide.......

Geri (geejay) -
Date Posted: 2/27/2010 4:26 PM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2008
Posts: 9,094
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That's what I did.  It has one wisher - had one wisher.  I described it and told her to let me know if she wanted it - if not I'd cancel or let it time out so she wouldn't lose her place.

It is a readable copy but I wasn't thrilled that it had that small cut.  I was afraid I was going to make it bigger.

Thanks for your opinions everyone!

Date Posted: 2/27/2010 7:22 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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Edith said, "...High humidity is high water in the air and thus to me, water damage."  Since water vapor is almost always present in the air, just where do we draw the line?  The point of condensation?  Before?  Should all members be required to buy special equipment to test humidity levels in their home?  That's a tough can of worms to open...

Last Edited on: 2/27/10 7:37 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/27/2010 8:33 PM ET
Member Since: 2/21/2009
Posts: 2,925
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Edith said, "...High humidity is high water in the air and thus to me, water damage."

Edith, I hope not everyone feels that way. I live in Florida and wavy pages are pretty much a given...at my house, at Borders, at B & N - and seems far more prevalent the newer the books. I think some are recycled paper which seems more condusive to moisture, or maybe it's just cheaper paper. But slightly wavy pages are hard to escape. It used to be worse in the summer months, but now with the "cheapness" of the books (not in price, but in construction) it seems far more frequent. That's not counting the several inches of rain we've had since January - and books are traveling in that weather as well - to and from me as well as to bookstores. That's not to say that every book is wavy because they aren't, but there are certainly a percentage of them that are - but it's not what I would consider "damage."

Last Edited on: 2/27/10 8:36 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 2/27/2010 9:34 PM ET
Member Since: 10/22/2009
Posts: 1,452
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I have to agree with Denise and Jodi--I consider "slightly wavy" pages postable.  In fact, I often find new books like this for sale in Barnes and Noble/Borders.  I don't know if the waviness of pages in these books is caused by humidity or not, but I'm fine with receiving and sending them.  Now, if the books are obviously water damaged very wavy pages/obivious water stains/ rough pages those books are definitely not postable and I won't post those and would RWAP any that I receive.

Date Posted: 2/27/2010 9:39 PM ET
Member Since: 2/28/2008
Posts: 2,553
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I also do not consider wavy pages from humidity water damage, and I am very picky about the books I post on my shelf.

Kate -
Date Posted: 2/27/2010 9:44 PM ET
Member Since: 8/28/2008
Posts: 534
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My personal opinion is that soft, uniformly wavy pages from humidity should not count as water damage. It's impossible for many people to avoid due to their climate, and quite different from the stiff and warped pages that result from actual water damage.

And like Denise said, where would you draw the line? There's always some amount of water vapor in the air.

Geri (geejay) -
Date Posted: 2/28/2010 1:17 PM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2008
Posts: 9,094
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I can say this book did have soft, uniformly wavy pages.  That didn't make a bit of difference to me.  My main concern was the small cut on the bottom of the mid pages - about 20 pages were affected by that.  I did post it and notified the wisher - she turned it down.  I don't have it on my shelf.  I think I'll just offer it as an unpostable.

Date Posted: 2/28/2010 1:46 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2009
Posts: 6,852
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Geri - if it is a WL book offer it in the book bazzar for a credit.  --Just a thought!

Date Posted: 2/28/2010 11:47 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Or put it in your signature line saying it's a WL book and describe briefly what the problem is.  I've done this with many "mildly" unpostables and gotten credits for them.  

What title is it?  I'm nosey and greedy! ;D

You can also put the book in your profile and the blue bookshelf header.


Date Posted: 3/1/2010 7:38 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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It seems to me that you can usually tell if it's water damage or humidity, if you just stop and think about it. What's the chance that the entire book is going to have water damaged pages that only cause a waviness? If their was enough water to cover all the pages, there's no way you could mistake it for humidity. Now, if you only have a spot, several pages deep or a section a certain amount in measurement and pages, then that again, couldn't be mistaken for humidity, because again, humidity wouldn't affect only specific spots or areas or only a number of pages (unless it was the entirity (sp?word?) of the set number of pages, I suppose that could be possible, but even so, it would be the entire pages and not really confusable with water damage. That of course is all my opinion and others are welcome to disagree, but it just makes sense to me that it would have to work that way. I also disagree with those that count humidity as water damage. Some people just live in high humidity areas and this is just not avoidable especially with some of the newer books with their cheaper paper. Again, just my opinion.

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 3/2/2010 2:14 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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My take on the wavy/water damage issue:

I usually go by the feel and appearance of the paper.  Just some degree of waviness is humidity-caused, not water damage, especially if the pages are still soft and pliable.  Stiff, crisp pages = water damage.  Humidity is not water damage, there is water vapor in all air, and some places it is higher than in other places. 

Date Posted: 3/2/2010 3:15 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 10,090
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I have noticed that with some new books, you get "fingerprint" waviness as the paper absorbs moisture from your fingers at the point you are holding the book to read it. I have received some like this, and I have also purchased new books that became this way as I read (I assure you, with dry hands, and my hands are normal ... not sweaty or anything like that).

I don't count that as water damage either, unless you can also see the telltale texture changes or staining that you would see from actually having wet fingers on the book.

Geri (geejay) -
Date Posted: 3/2/2010 5:47 PM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2008
Posts: 9,094
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To me the only way this book would have actual water damage would be that it fell in a sink full of water.  But the pages are soft and pliable not stiff.  The cover isn't wavy at all.

I had a book that fell in the bucket of water.  I couldn't believe it when I saw it floating!  I let it dry and there were no water stains since the whole thing fell in clean water.  But the pages were stiff and not nice to touch.  Plus the cover was a mess.  Poor book had to go.