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Topic: dust covers

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Subject: dust covers
Date Posted: 3/2/2009 9:15 PM ET
Member Since: 2/17/2009
Posts: 113
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I just got a pm from a book i sent without a dustcover.  The person said it would have been nice to know if doesn't have one.  I read on this website that dust covers aren't required for hard back books.  I didn't think I needed to let the person know that since it's listed as not a requirement.  I believe if they want a book with a dustcover it should be in their requirements so that I could just deny their request.  I am right on this?

Date Posted: 3/2/2009 9:20 PM ET
Member Since: 11/27/2006
Posts: 167
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Yes you are right.  They would have to have an RC stating they want the dustcovers.

Date Posted: 3/2/2009 9:27 PM ET
Member Since: 6/15/2006
Posts: 5,751
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Rebecca, You did nothing wrong. As Barbara sais, dust covers are not required and if she wants them she needs to specify that in her RC. You should copy and paste the portion from the book conditions guidelines about dust covers not being necessary to post a book so that she can see that this is the rule.

Last Edited on: 3/2/09 9:28 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/2/2009 10:48 PM ET
Member Since: 12/6/2008
Posts: 142
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I had the exact same thing happen to me about a month after I first joined.  I had found a brand new, just published hardback book at the Goodwill store.  It was just missing the dust jacket.  When I posted it, there were *84* people wishing for it.  I felt like I'd done a good deed, matching people who wanted books up with books that had no home, but then when they received the book, I got a PM saying only "I would have preferred to have had the dust jacket."  That was the entire PM.  Not even a "hello," much less a "thank you"!

I replied with a PM stating that I had bought the book without the dust jacket, and that if I'd had the dust jacket, I surely would have sent that along too.  I told her that since PBS said that books didn't need to have the dust jackets to be postable, I hadn't given it a second thought.  I also told her that if she would have mentioned dust jackets in her requester conditions, I would have known that she wouldn't have been happy with the book and passed her over so that the next person wishing for the book could have had their wish fulfilled and so that she wouldn't have been stuck with a book she was unhappy with.  I never received her response back.

Rude of me, yes, but it ticked me off.

I have no problem with RC's requesting practically new books.  Sometimes people want a nice "keeper copy" and if the book is old enough that it's out of the larger stores (like Target and WalMart), they may not have any way to get it, but if people don't say what they want, how are we to know? 

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now, lol.


Date Posted: 3/3/2009 8:39 AM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,601
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I'm with you, Amy...if you want dustjackets on your HCs, say so up front by making a Requestor Condition! Don't want ex-library books? Say so in an RC!

The problem is that some people here DO send a PM to the requestor about every little oddity--no dust jacket, ex-library, bookcrossing stickers, older book with yellowed page edges, etc--all this stuff that is perfectly fine to post by PBS standards, and that sets a bad precedent if you don't send a PM! Then the requestor treats you like a "bad guy" for not letting them know in advance, even though you're sending books in perfectly postable condition. Bah!


Date Posted: 3/3/2009 10:28 AM ET
Member Since: 8/27/2005
Posts: 4,134
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Amy, I don't think it's rude to let people know what the rules are.  Obviously a lot of people don't read the book posting guidelines and it can only help them and the members they deal with in the future by letting know they have wrong information.

Date Posted: 3/3/2009 12:20 PM ET
Member Since: 10/13/2007
Posts: 36,445
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I have had a few HB sent to me without Dustjackets and never thought much about it because I read the rules.  Plus there do seem alot of people that PM over these things so new members then think, that is how its done. 

I am with everyone about having an RC if you want the dust jacket.  I will not PM anyone about the book unless the rules state I need too OR they have a strange RC.

Date Posted: 3/3/2009 2:47 PM ET
Member Since: 6/21/2007
Posts: 2,015
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Last Edited on: 2/3/15 7:04 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 3/3/2009 3:42 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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"The problem is that some people here DO send a PM to the requestor about every little oddity--no dust jacket, ex-library, bookcrossing stickers, older book with yellowed page edges, etc--all this stuff that is perfectly fine to post by PBS standards, and that sets a bad precedent if you don't send a PM! Then the requestor treats you like a "bad guy" for not letting them know in advance, even though you're sending books in perfectly postable condition. Bah!"

Cheryl, I'm one of "those" people.  I like to send people PMs about quirks pertaining to my books if they have any, because I want to send my books to people that want them, and not make someone unhappy because they didn't get what they were expecting and/or hoping for.  This is my standard operating procedure, and the one time I didn't do it, I was slapped with an RWAP because the book I sent did not meet the standards they wanted (it was to be a gift for someone, and my copy was quite obviously used). 

I don't feel I'm setting a bad precedent.  I know there are many people in the forums that think people should never send PMs back and forth, but I'm a chatty type and like to make new friends here, and I've been able to do that by sending my book condition PMs.  The site guidelines state that PMs aren't required for regular trades, so no one should be 'expecting' PMs about book conditions just because they got one from me or someone else if they read the rules here...

Date Posted: 3/3/2009 4:44 PM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,601
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Sianeka, you certainly have the right to send PMs every time if you want to. I send and receive a lot of books, many of which are ex-library, and only a couple of times did people say something like "I wish I had known it was ex-library before I ordered it." But they didn't mark it RWAP and understood the book was indeed postable. If I were to PM every single person about a book I sent that had some oddity like that, I would be spending a lot of time waiting for people to get back to me and trying to keep them all straight.

Just out of curiosity, what do you do (or what would you do?) when there is a so-called problem like no dustjacket and the person doesn't answer your PM by the time you are due to send the book? Do you cancel the order or do you send it along? And what if you sent it and then they sent a PM back a day later saying, "I really didn't want it without the DJ?" Do you gift them back a credit? And say the person decides they don't want it. If it's a wishlisted book and you cancel the order and then re-list the book, it will go right back to that person again...whereas if they HAD a requestor condition, and you declined the order because of it, the book would stay in the system and move to the next person. This way you basically are stuck in limbo with this same person and can't repost the book til someone else posts it for them. I'm just all for anything that simplifies the process and I think sometimes we just make it harder than it needs to be.

not make someone unhappy because they didn't get what they were expecting and/or hoping for. 

Well, if they want or are hoping for more than what the PBS guidelines specify, IMO it's THEIR responsibility to state that up front in a Requestor Condition. The person who marked your book RWAP is TOTALLY in the wrong for marking it so if she didn't have RCs and the book WAS postable by PBS guidelines. I would have gently educated them, declined to return their credit and suggested they make a RC to meet their more stringent guidelines if that is what they want.


Date Posted: 3/4/2009 3:46 AM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,481
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The way I do it if I feel a book is slightly below my standard is to send a PM and to mark the book with a later shipping date.  Say to ship in 4 days instead of two.  I'll warn them in the PM and let them know if they want me to cancel to get back to me before that date.  (If the shipper cancels, then they do not lose their place in the WL.)  I had some OOP older books that were quite worn but still met postable guidelines.  I wanted folks who would value the books to get those hard to find books.  And I had the PM warning of the condition in case of problems. 

Date Posted: 3/4/2009 8:58 AM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,601
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Emily, I realize that if the sender cancels people don't lose their place in the WL line...but then the book is removed from YOUR shelf and  you cannot repost the book until that person who was first in line gets the book from someone else. If it's an older, hard-to-find book, that could be months or even longer. If you cancel and then repost, it would go back to them and you end up canceling again because you already know they don't want it in the shape you have it in.

This is why it's better if that person had an RC, because then you could decline for conditions and your book would be able to go to the next person in the WL line, who may be just fine with the condition of the book. Informal PMs about conditions just lead to more headaches, IMO.

Personally, I think if people are wanting a hard-to-find OOP book that's older, they're going to KNOW that it's not going to be in like-new shape. As long as it meets PBS posting guidelines, I just can't see the need to let people know that it has yellowed pages, slightly worn cover, etc. And if they are wanting something old like that, but in "collectible shape" they CERTAINLY ought to have RCs with specifics outlined.


Date Posted: 3/4/2009 11:33 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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I'm with Cheryl on this one. I don't PM.  I only post books that meet PBS posting guidelines. If it's borderline it goes in the damaged books virtual box or that other trading site where you can put a description.  I don't PM when conditions are confusing or vague either.  I don't need the credit that badly to deal with the hassle. This is supposed to be fun not work.

To the OP you did nothing wrong.  I don't buy hardbacks usually unless I know it's WL or it's something I want to read and I find it for super cheap (.25-.50).  I find them a pain to wrap and mail and they take up too much room on my bookshelf.  But if I found a WL hardcover with no dust jacket cheap-I would post it and I wouldn't PM them.  If they marked it RWP for no dust jacket and had no RCS asking for one-PBS will not count it against you.  They can tell if someone had RCS turned on at the time of the request.  If they are that concerned with it they should have an RC asking for one.

Date Posted: 3/5/2009 10:57 AM ET
Member Since: 12/12/2006
Posts: 1,079
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I once had a hard cover I sent marked RWAP because it had no dust jacket!  And there had been no RC about that!  I was dealing with a new member who obviously hadn't made herself familiar with club rules.  I was really annoyed!

Date Posted: 3/6/2009 6:41 PM ET
Member Since: 1/24/2009
Posts: 98
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I am new on the site. One of the first books I mailed out the receiver marked RWAP because of no dust jacket.

He apologized, but I don't know if he marked it resolved.  I'm happy to know it will not be counted against me.

Date Posted: 3/9/2009 11:14 AM ET
Member Since: 1/2/2009
Posts: 408
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I received a book without the dust jacket.  It was a little disappointing but not a huge deal, especially since the book came in a 3-1 deal.  I'm a little nervous about listing it on my shelf.

Date Posted: 3/15/2009 10:18 AM ET
Member Since: 10/24/2005
Posts: 84
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I just had someone mark it RWAP too for no DJ.. but no RC and the book was in perfect shape. I don't know whats so difficult to grasp about reading the rules and making a RC if it's a huge deal. This is my first RWAP in my entire PBS career... <sniff>

Date Posted: 3/15/2009 12:33 PM ET
Member Since: 8/19/2007
Posts: 4,314
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When I first joined PBS I'd send a PM about ex-library books, and everyone I sent a PM to said, "No problem, send the book." so I quit sending the PM.  Only had one person who was disappointed, but admitted it was her problem because she didn't have an RC stating she didn't want ex-library books.  Now I just send the books out unless I can't meet the RCs.  Pat

Date Posted: 3/15/2009 6:58 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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I don't PM.  I'm lazy and perfectly fine with the system doing its thing.  If I get a RWAP on a book - I point them to the rules.  and I archive the PM's just in case.   The quality of books here should be higher than most people expect of used books - at least that's the goal of the conditions for posting books.  So I let it work and "educate" members who don't know better.

For an example - though - what would you do in this situation?  I bought a used book through Amazon and it's a HC.  I don't like HC's, but still sometimes it's the only version available.  It has a DJ in great condition - except....for some stupid reason the used book dealer stuck a huge sticker with his business information on it right on the top part of the cover which has beautiful artwork.  I was bummed.  So now do I send the book with the DJ or send it without the DJ?  I haven't read it yet - so I'm just pondering the possibilities.


Date Posted: 3/15/2009 7:13 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2007
Posts: 3,044
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I'd say send it with the DJ but maybe PM the requestor first and ask if they're okay with the sticker? If you don't want the hassle though, just send without the DJ. That's what I would probably do. :)

Date Posted: 3/15/2009 7:28 PM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2007
Posts: 1,410
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I'd send it with the DJ, and I wouldn't PM.  The DJ is not required, so the condition is irrelevant.

Date Posted: 3/15/2009 8:15 PM ET
Member Since: 2/12/2008
Posts: 4,470
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it always seems to be two of the big debates here at PBS. Whether to send a PM about no DJ as a courtesy or not, as MOST people, it seems really do NOT read all or even any of the Book Condition Guidelines. Sending a PM avoids the exact response that just happened. Isn't it better to be preventative? Really, how long does it take to jot off a PM say, "BTW, this book has no DJ."

As for people requesting books in Like-New condition. The only people who have a gripe about this are people who don't HAVE books in this condition and are sour graping because they feel they should have deserved every opportunity for a credit that comes their way. Well, too bad. No one owes another person a credit just because they have the book that the other person wants, but in the wrong condition. :p If they don't have it in the right condition, too bad.

As I've been doing research on other book swapping sites, I've noticed many other sites have a feature that allows people to LIST or describe the book condition:

New: Book has never been used.

Like-New: An apparently unread book

Very Good: Book is used, but in exceptional condition.

Good: Book is in overall good condition with no highlights or markings.

Fair: Book may have notes, highlighting, markings or other blemishes but is in useable condition.

Poor: Book is in poor condition but is not missing any pages and is still readable.


How wonderful it is to pass by books (and Senders) if they are not in the condition you want. And wouldn't it be wonderful if the people who do NOT have Like-New books aren't even bothered or needlessly contacted at all, since they don't have books in that condition. Boy, would this forum be lacking a lot of complaint threads! LOL. I think it would be great if, when a WL book offer comes in, it's ALREADY listed by what condition it's in. Or you have a choice to request or accept one in the condition you are willing to accept. People could still list RCs, but it would save a lot of needless RCs  as it would keep them down to things like pet allergies & smoke issues.




Edited for typos!

Last Edited on: 3/15/09 8:43 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/15/2009 8:25 PM ET
Member Since: 1/20/2009
Posts: 2,680
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The condition of the DJ is relevant, but only insofar as it being held to the same standards of condition as the book cover is. So, the sticker affects nothing, and I'd therefore send it with the DJ. They can't complain about it then. The one exception is if the person specifically requires a DJ with their hardcovers. Since this is often for the sake of complete cover art, I'd turn down that request completely.

P.S.: I agree with EveDallas. It would save a lot of complaining if PBS let people list their books by condition, though it's obviously their decision not to allow us to do so. That still doesn't negate the fact that, in the absence of that ability, people have the right to put any conditions in place that they wish, since they're the ones paying a credit for the book. I'm one of the people with RCs in place for books in very good condition or better, largely because it's my wish to receive books that are at least in roughly the same condition as the ones I send, which are virtually all like new or brand new. So, people who have an issue with RCs will just need to continue to be bothered, since PBS doesn't appear to be willing to add condition listings anytime soon.

Last Edited on: 3/15/09 8:38 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 3/15/2009 9:04 PM ET
Member Since: 2/12/2008
Posts: 4,470
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Last Edited on: 4/1/11 3:28 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/15/2009 9:14 PM ET
Member Since: 1/29/2006
Posts: 54,837
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While I understand *completely* that people sending the PMs are just trying do the nice thing, it really can backfire on everyone who does not send them.  People do come to expect it and that's unfotunate as they are not required.  It can also lead people (usually new members) to the false impression that "Oooh, DJs are required". (or BX are not allowed, etc).  Believe me, please, when I tell you that people misunderstand easily. 

Obviously, if you choose to send the PMs you have every right to do that.  Naturally.  Just please keep in mind that it really can have ramifications beyond just your transaction. 

I would also agree that this debate isn't going away anytime soon. ;-)