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Topic: Following PBS Rules. But I get the black mark?

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Subject: Following PBS Rules. But I get the black mark?
Date Posted: 8/19/2008 5:53 AM ET
Member Since: 7/1/2008
Posts: 2,835
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So, first thing this morning I see:

"Why didn't you discoles [sic]this was a library discard, I would not have requested it if I knew that :-( "

I replied, changing the heading.

It is a postable book by PBS standards (see PBS rules or help section). If you don't want ex-library books, or books without dust jackets, or remainder marks, etc, you need to add requestor's conditions in your settings under "My Account.". This was a wishlisted book and plenty of folks would have been glad to take it. If you had a requestor condition, I would have stated my book didn't meet your condition, you would have kept your plaace in line, and it would have gone to the next person.

There were no requestor conditions on your request.

I do not intend refunding you a credit.

I have stopped taking my time to link the url for the documentation.

Then I saw in the transaction archive the person said the book did not meet requestor conditions. There were not any RCs on exlibs and none listed in the  transaction.

But the transaction details has a button saying refund a credit.

Did I do the right thing? In the 6 weeks I have belonged, I havestated that a requested book did not meet RCs many times. Now what? If RCs were on the book at the time the request was made, wouldn't it show in the transaction archive?

Last Edited on: 8/19/08 12:59 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 8/19/2008 5:58 AM ET
Member Since: 7/1/2008
Posts: 2,835
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So, according to the PBS rules, I get the problem transaction and lose the credit? Should I elevate this?

Forgot to answer, no response yet.

Last Edited on: 8/19/08 6:31 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
patticom - ,
Date Posted: 8/19/2008 6:23 AM ET
Member Since: 11/3/2007
Posts: 416
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What was the person's response to your pm??  They have the power to mark it resolved no matter what, but I know people often don't because they are just determined to be mad (sometimes even if you do refund the credit!).  If this is your first bad mark I'd just let it go, personally... from what I understand the site owners don't go hunting down every person with a single error, and it's probably not fair to take up their time researching and following up on every single one, kwim?  :)  They know stuff happens. 

Date Posted: 8/19/2008 6:29 AM ET
Member Since: 7/1/2008
Posts: 2,835
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But, I didn't do anything wrong! There weren't any RCs. Shouldn't that person get the black mark? And, do I lose my credit?

patticom - ,
Date Posted: 8/19/2008 6:34 AM ET
Member Since: 11/3/2007
Posts: 416
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You get the credit anyway, and there's not really any "black marks."  :)  If you look in your transaction archive you'll see red X's for incompleted transactions, green checks for successfully completed ones, and I think a red check with a squiggle through (something like that) for the problem transactions.  Both the receiver and sender will have the same exact symbol on the problem transactions and any communication sent through the transaction comments (and not a separate pm) will show up when you click on it.  I had a book that was damaged in shipping, and it will show up with the same symbol on both mine and the sender's T.A. even though it's no one's fault on PBS.  But it is marked as a damaged by USPS, so even if there ever was an investigation the site owners will see that.  Since you stated your receiver marked it "does not meet conditions" the site owners can check and indeed should be able to determine that there are no conditions...

Make sense?  :) 

Date Posted: 8/19/2008 6:47 AM ET
Member Since: 7/1/2008
Posts: 2,835
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Should I elevate it through PBS?

I only meant a metaphorical black mark :) Perhaps I should have said a strike against me.

The thing is,  the odds are I will inadvertently screw up in the future, so I am worried about an undeserved one now.

Date Posted: 8/19/2008 7:38 AM ET
Member Since: 11/11/2005
Posts: 5,238
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JK, Don't worry about it.   It takes more than one or two metaphorical black marks to get anyone in trouble on PBS.    You didn't do anything wrong  and although there is a chance of an inadvertant screw up in the future, PBS realizes that occasional screw ups happen to everybody.

Chill, it's OK.

Date Posted: 8/19/2008 7:43 AM ET
Member Since: 7/1/2008
Posts: 2,835
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Ha, I didn't see your post until just now. I didn't chill. I sent this through feedback:

I received communication from you as well as the requestor PM stating that 'The Naming of the Dead' by Ian Rankin has been marked "received, but with a problem", and the requestor has indicated that it did not meet his or her Requestor Conditions.

I do not believe there were requestor conditions. I routinely do not accept requests with RCs my books don't meet.

In case I made an error, I checked the transaction archive and no RCs appear to have been applied to that transaction. I responded to the requestor indicating that and stating I thus had no intention of returning his credit.

Now what? I am jealous of my good reputation here, and am greatly concerned.

I no longer have access to the transaction number, but here is identifying info.

Naming of the Dead by Iam Rankin
Request Date: 8/10/2008 1:08 PM ET
Alternate Date: 8/15/2008 11:00 PM ET
Wrapper Printing(s):
8/11/2008 6:14 AM ET

Date Mailed: 8/11/2008 6:27 AM ET
Date Received: 8/18/2008 8:02 PM ET
USPS DC#: 9102165561353003432111

I feel I need grace because one day I am going to be sending out a bunch of books and put some  in the wrong parcels.

Last Edited on: 8/19/08 1:00 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/19/2008 7:43 AM ET
Member Since: 10/29/2005
Posts: 3,823
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This exact same thing happened to me last week. The book I sent was marked as RWAP simply because it was a library book. I responded to the initial pm with the Help Center rules copied & pasted into my pm, along with a request to mark the transaction as resolved. The other member did so, and everything is fine now. I would not say that this needs to be reported to the team. If there is ever an issue with your account, the team will be able to see that you received an undeserved RWAP, along with the pm's sent back and forth about the transaction, and will not hold it against you. No worries!

Date Posted: 8/19/2008 7:47 AM ET
Member Since: 4/6/2007
Posts: 1,430
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Last Edited on: 6/5/11 12:18 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 8/19/2008 7:48 AM ET
Member Since: 6/21/2007
Posts: 2,015
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Last Edited on: 2/2/15 7:14 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/19/2008 8:07 AM ET
Member Since: 7/1/2008
Posts: 2,835
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Oh dear.

Just received this:

I would like to thank you for your nasty reply. As you noted, I didn't ask for a credit, all I stated is that you should have mentioned it was a library discard.

I replied, restraining myself from perjoratives:

My reply was not nasty. It was precise and giving you information you evidently did not know.

No, I should not mention it is an ex libris book. That is not my obligation because it falls within the PBS rules. What you should have done is state in RCs that you did not want library books--a personal tailoring of acceptable conditions. I also have no way of contacting you until after I accept the request. And, if you have no RCs, why should I post you or any other requestor and list any differences between a new book and the allowable PBS used book conditions?

I would like you to mark this transaction as resolved.

I have a feeling he won't. Wonder if my problem child is the same as Valli's?

I have had such incredibly civilized responses from folks, both requestors and senders, in the past.

And I did send the feedback because of my angst. Which he actually dissolved by his characterizing reply on record.  


Edited to add italics because indents didn't show up

Last Edited on: 8/19/08 8:09 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/19/2008 8:38 AM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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With the continuing numbers of new PBS members I think there will be lots of people who do not really know the rules because usually people do not take the time to read the rules.  The PBS system assumes you know the rules.  But like I said people really don't want to read the rules.  So we have to educate them along the way.  It can be a pain for sure.  And likely as not most of those you try to "educate" won't read that either because they don't want to take the time and/or they want to be right (don't confuse them with the facts).  I'm sorry that you seem to have hit a bad run - it comes in waves.  At the end of the day - this is only trading used books - not life and death issues.  So just relax and don't let them bother you.  Just do the right thing and let the dust settle where it will. JMO


Rick B. (bup) - ,
Date Posted: 8/19/2008 8:40 AM ET
Member Since: 11/2/2007
Posts: 2,625
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You've done everything right. Don't worry.

Date Posted: 8/19/2008 9:00 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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PBS can tell by looking at the transaction that he did not have RCS in place when he ordered the book.  If he's put them in place now, they can tell that it was after he requested a book from you.  So I wouldn't worry about especially since you PM'd them to explain what happened.  If you happen to make a mistake in the future and get another RWP they'll see what happened with this one and discount it.  I don't think the occassional red mark here and there damages your account.  It's people who repeatedly get them who get warnings and/or the boot.

Subject: response from PBS
Date Posted: 8/19/2008 9:55 AM ET
Member Since: 7/1/2008
Posts: 2,835
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boiler plate, but echoing your advice:

Dear JK,

Sometimes members choose "Requestor Conditions violation" in error--when they mean a different problem category, or because they are not familiar with what constitutes a problem.

If the requestor marked this as a problem in error, he can change the status of the swap to "Completed Successfully" using the "Follow-up on Problem Swaps" option as described in the Help Center.

Even if the problem transaction stands, it will not affect your account unless this becomes a pattern in your sending. We know that members make errors (on both sides), and even an unresolved dispute about a problem swap will have no effect on your membership, as long as this is an isolated problem.

The requestor needs to read the Help doc "There is a problem with a book I received" and "Follow-up for Problem Swaps" in the Help Center for more information about where to go from here in this situation. If the book didn't really have a problem as described in the Help doc, then the follow-up option can be used to remove the problem status completely. The Help Center is accessible from the top of any page on the site.

Have a great day!

The PaperBackSwap Team

Of course, he didn't mark it in error. He still thinks he is right! I work in corporate America. I am 57. You 'd think I would have learned by now to suffer fools gladly.

Date Posted: 8/19/2008 10:00 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,226
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PBS can tell if the RWP - didn't meet RCs is wrong so don't sweat it. They won't get involved in individual transactions unless someone is being nasty or not communicating (and what you have put in here is not even close to nasty). If there were no RCs and you've told him that, I would send him one final PM asking him to mark the transaction as marked in error. Since the book met the site conditions and he had no RCs at the time, reporting it as RWP for being an ex-library book was incorrect.

And then walk away from the transaction. You don't have to give back the credit so be done with it and move on with your life, there is nothing more you can do and stewing about it, or badgering him, won't make him do the right thing,

Date Posted: 8/19/2008 10:26 AM ET
Member Since: 10/23/2005
Posts: 7,719
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JK, Try not to worry too much about this one, I have a feeling the other members "pattern" will emerge long before your account will have a pattern. And thank you for making me laugh and shake my head with this:  I am 57. You 'd think I would have learned by now to suffer fools gladly.


Date Posted: 8/19/2008 11:08 AM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
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Why don't folks, on a reading web site, read the rules and guidelines?  I. Do. Not. Get. It!!

Date Posted: 8/19/2008 11:12 AM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2007
Posts: 881
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Because it's not something they WANT to read. It's boring stuff that they SHOULD read. Learning's all not fun and stuff ;)

Date Posted: 8/19/2008 11:41 AM ET
Member Since: 7/1/2008
Posts: 2,835
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Me either, Drewsmom. My guide told me what to read and gave me a nice long list in my initial email, with links. I moved at first with trepidation. Or, at least, with care. Tonsky  probably has it correctly pegged. Or as a colleague stated a few years ago, people are now being born witha 6th sense: the sense of entitlement and the rules don't apply to me!

Date Posted: 8/19/2008 11:53 AM ET
Member Since: 8/1/2007
Posts: 5,034
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You have sent the correct information to the person and given them a suggestion on how to resolve their issue going forward (by adding Requestor Conditions saying they don't want library book).  You are now done. 

Sure, the requestor can mark it as "unresolved", but if ever there WAS an investigation the PMs would speak for themselves in your defense.

I have no idea why the "Did not Meet Requestor Conditions" shows up as an option when there were no conditions... I see that when I check books in that I have received and I have never had conditions.  The actual record in your transaction will always show whether they had conditions active at the time of the order.

Take a deep breath... and let it  out... you will be just fine here at PBS and your record "blemish" is just a blip on the radar and not worth a further minute of irritation.  The requestor has a problem with PBS rules and you have given information to them.  They may do with it as the please.

Date Posted: 8/19/2008 1:55 PM ET
Member Since: 8/19/2007
Posts: 4,451
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I sent a book once that was ex-library, and got a response back that if she'd known it was ex-library she wouldn't have wanted it, but did admit it was her fault as she didn't have an RC stating this.  Said she'd have to put that down as one of her RCs.  She didn't mark the book RWAP or anything and I think it might have been a WL book, so she could easily have gotten rid of it and waited for one that wasn't ex-lib.   Pat

Date Posted: 8/21/2008 2:40 AM ET
Member Since: 2/23/2007
Posts: 181
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As others have said, I wouldn't worry about it.  But, I really get why you're upset.  If it had happened to me, I think the thing that I would have found most annoying is that there is no place in the posting process for indicating the condition of a book and in the review section it specifically states that you should NOT post the condition of your book because of the way that PBS operates.  Perhaps the requestor is confused because he participates at another swap site which operates differently and which encourages you to indicate the condition of your book.  In any case, he's the one that is in the wrong.

L. G. (L)
Date Posted: 8/21/2008 2:46 AM ET
Member Since: 9/5/2005
Posts: 12,412
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Same exact thing happened to me.  Don't sweat it.  One or two bad transactions won't blacken your reputation.