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Topic: Frustrated by condition

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Subject: Frustrated by condition
Date Posted: 1/12/2008 1:06 PM ET
Member Since: 10/6/2005
Posts: 10,921
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I just received 3 books today, all strangely enough by the same author, and none of them should have been posted here to begin with! I am SO frustrated because this is an author I really love and at least one of the 3 books is in such bad shape I don't even like holding it! The inside cover page is missing, the cloth cover is excessively worn, the spine is cleaved at the front and back binding, and there are multiple stains on it! How could anyone have thought this book was postable? One of the others the pages are so wavy they won't lie flat against each other, and the other book is just plain filthy. I understand that older books (they are all 1970s) aren't going to be perfect, but these books are just not up to PBS posting standards. I asked for my credits back on 2 of them (not the dirty one) let's see if I get them or if I just get attitude.

On top of that I said something to my mom about it and she gave me the same response that annoys so many of us - what do you care, you get a free book out of it?

Non-PBS'ers just don't get it...

Last Edited on: 1/12/08 1:07 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/12/2008 1:38 PM ET
Member Since: 4/11/2007
Posts: 1,640
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I hope you get your credit back!  Sorry you went through that. 

Date Posted: 1/12/2008 2:41 PM ET
Member Since: 10/30/2005
Posts: 3,562
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they are all 1970

That would make them between 30-40 years old. I know that when I hit my mid-thirties, I had already started looking like I had been rode hard and put up wet....and I most likely hadn't been handled NEAR as much as a book.

Non-PBS'ers just don't get it...

Count me as one of those PBS'ers who don't get it.


Date Posted: 1/12/2008 3:12 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2007
Posts: 11,832
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I get it.  Just got 2 books today.  One is pretty worn but I know condition like that is subjective.  I wasn't planning on reposting it anyway.  The other book (from the same person) I did request my credit back on.  2 pages are completely out of the book and were tucked in the back cover.  When I found the spot where the pages go, the spine is cleaved and the 6 or 8 pages behind that point are about to fall out also.

PBS has book condition guidelines for a reason.  I just wish people'd follow them.

Bast -
Date Posted: 1/12/2008 3:18 PM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2006
Posts: 547
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I totally get it. I'm tired of getting books that are crap.

Date Posted: 1/12/2008 3:23 PM ET
Member Since: 10/6/2005
Posts: 10,921
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I understand that older books MAY be in poor condition. I also understand that by the rules here, you don't post them if they are. If I didn't care what condition the books I received were in, I'd go to one of those OTHER sites where all conditions are allowed. But I'm here, not there - because I like  the rules that protect us from getting crappy books.

Date Posted: 1/12/2008 7:07 PM ET
Member Since: 5/3/2006
Posts: 6,436
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"I understand that older books MAY be in poor condition. I also understand that by the rules here, you don't post them if they are."


Older books are allowed to be yellowed. They're not allowed to be falling to pieces.

Date Posted: 1/12/2008 7:22 PM ET
Member Since: 1/25/2007
Posts: 6,567
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I agree with you. I honestly wonder what some people think when posting book. I have also recieved a few books that are better off in the trash.

Now I will admit people seem better on here than Bookmooch. I trade on Bookmooch also but I tend to save my "unpostable" books for that site. I use that site before you can enter in the condition so people are more aware of what books they are getting. I give VERY VERY VERY clear details of everything wrong with the book and shocked at the requests I am getting. lol

But the thing about trading books and other stuff is people tend to forget the golden rule. Do unto others. I mean if I wouldn't want to get the book I am posting then I won't post it. It is as simple as that.

Sadly some people just don't think or care.


Date Posted: 1/13/2008 8:26 PM ET
Member Since: 6/11/2006
Posts: 12,826
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when i look at book if i even question it i wont send it . i too have got some book that arent too pretty.  

Date Posted: 1/19/2008 11:04 PM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2006
Posts: 775
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Bren & Sarah - I'm wondering if we're having a problem with the same person.  Here's a question I asked one of the PBS guides a couple of days ago & they told me to contact Bernie (the book bazaar czar).

Gotta question. I took a person up on a deal they posted in the book bazaar twice. My 1st mistake was that I didn't wait for the first set (deal) of books to come in before I requested more from her. In the 1st deal I asked what condition the books were in & she said they were in "like new" condition, read once, ... I ended up throwing away several/many of the books because they had water damage and some were even moldy/mildewy. They reaked of long/damp storage. I was stunned & certainly regretted having already placed a 2nd order. For the 2nd order I had requested 3 books on Dec. 16th & was to receive 15 freebies. The three I spent credits on came in but the others never have. The member said they were mailed out separately which I found odd. I sent her an email about a week ago requesting 2 of my credits back & then followed up a day or two ago asking if that had seemed unreasonable, and I've never heard back from her. Considering the condition of the books she is sending out, I feel that something needs to be done. Many were beyond unpostable & she was stating they were "like new" or in "great condition". Is there anything I can or should do?

I finally received this response from the person I got the books from yesterday: "I mailed these books. I am out postage on them plus the books. Have you checked with your post office?"

Date Posted: 1/19/2008 11:36 PM ET
Member Since: 1/14/2007
Posts: 17,440
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People like those  you all describe should not be allowed on this site!  Hope you reported it to R&R so it is on their record. If it happens too often, their membership will be suspended.

Date Posted: 1/21/2008 1:56 PM ET
Member Since: 5/30/2007
Posts: 21
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I think some people don't bother to even read any of the posting FAQs before listing books . . .I received one last week that looked good from the outside, so I opened the cover, and there was writing in red pen on the inside cover.  I thought  "Well that's not too bad . . .," flipped to the back cover, where there were paragraphs of writing in red pen.  So I started going through the whole book and there are numerous pages throughout that have red underlining, notations, and whole paragraphs written!  I was so disappointed.  This is not a textbook, either, just a regular book.


I did mark RWP and kindly emailed the sender, who said she wasn't aware that "no writing" was a condition . . .She said she'd send me a credit back, but so far, no credit. . .<sigh>

Date Posted: 1/21/2008 5:54 PM ET
Member Since: 1/2/2008
Posts: 21
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Im new here and have requested one book so far. I was alittle dissapointed. The book was very worn, the front cover looked like someone had rolled it. the book had 3 or 4 library stampes through it and a hole on the last page the size of a quarter, luckly it wasnt part of the actual story.

I have posted my first books and wouldnt put this on the list when Im done because of the shape. So Im out of luck getting a credit for another one.

Maybe they should start a rating system like ebay does to track who is following the posting rules and who sends junk.



Date Posted: 1/21/2008 6:18 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,695
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Last week I received a book from a rather new member and to be honest the book looked like I had come out of a dumpster.  First off, the books was well wrapped, plastic around the books so, it was obvious the USPS had not damaged the book..it came from the sender damaged.  There was some sort of black, sticky substance drooled down the front of the book (kind of a glistening halo around the substance) so, I will have to clean and disinfect before the book can be used.  The edges of the book have what looks like someone has held it with black grease on their hands and the back cover is coming apart so, has probably been wet at some point.  I marked it "Received with a Problem"  and requested my credit back...the following is the only response I've gotten from the sender.

"1/18/2008 @ 10:50 PM ET Book was not sent in that condition. I would never have sent a damaged or filthy book nor would I send a book in a condition that I would not want. This came from my very clean, smoke-free home that respects books and other possessions."

I sent another request stating that it was not damaged by the USPS as the package it came in was not damaged, no cuts, or tears. I also clearly stated that I wanted my credit back.  Since the initial response noted above I cannot get a response from the sender.  The HC says if no response from sender to report them to R&R, that non-response is taken as admission of guilt (I'm hoping that means that even if they responded to the initial contact but, didn't respond after that.) and it will go against them on their account but, sadly there is no way to force them to return the credit.  I wish there was some way to rate them so they'd have bad rating and that way others would know not to order from them or to order at their own risk.

Date Posted: 1/21/2008 6:48 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2007
Posts: 11,832
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Lorna, I doubt our problem was with the same person.  The books I'd requested were thru the FIFO system.  I used the "order more from this member" link and found another book on her shelf I wanted and ordered that too.  I wasn't via the Book Bazaar or part of a deal.

My sender was very nice and apologized for not noticing the pages out of the book and returned the credit to me immediately so I'm sure it was just a mistake which, hey, we all make from time to time.

If the books you spent your credits on were unpostable, definitely mark them received with a problem.  If it's the freebies and the freebies came from her shelf, I'd send something in via the Feedback link at the bottom of the page.  Not that R&R would do anything but I'd want to get it on record with them the conditions of books this member is sending out and about the box of 15 books that never arrived.

Kim, she may not know how to send you your credit back so I'd politely PM once more about how to do that (add you to her buddy list and then buddy you the credit).

Karen, I hope you marked that book as Received with a Problem and requested your credit back.  PM the sender and describe what makes the book unpostable (the dirty condition and the hole in the page) and ask for your credit back.

If enough people report the problem transactions, R&R will take action to weed out the bad traders.

Date Posted: 1/22/2008 12:18 PM ET
Member Since: 1/2/2008
Posts: 21
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no Im afraid I didnt. but did explain the book in the area you can write in on the page you fill out . Who reads that? The one that sent the book or the managers here??

I wll tho If I get another one like that. I would never send one like it.

Date Posted: 1/23/2008 3:52 AM ET
Member Since: 12/20/2006
Posts: 4
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Okay, so I'm not the only one who has dealt with this. I've had them written in, colored in, pages missing, split bindings, wrong info posted when the book was listed, etc. A few months ago, I just had to go in and put requestor conditions in regard to a few issues. I've had a couple of refusals since I did this, and one very ugly refusal to send a book to me because I was being so demanding (by asking them to follow PBS posting guidelines, mind you). However, once I started copying and pasting the PBS posting guidelines when I have received books that violate posting rules, and sending them a PM BEFORE I marked the book received, I have not had one single person refuse to refund my credit. If they give me the credit, I don't mark the book with a problem. If they refuse (which no one has), I would have to mark the book as received with a problem. I contacted PBS and they said this was a good way to handle things. 

It is amazing that some people can post a ratty book that's falling apart and feel that it's perfectly okay to post. I agree that people must not bother to read the posting guidelines... or maybe they just don't care. I don't know.


Date Posted: 1/23/2008 4:48 AM ET
Member Since: 12/19/2005
Posts: 5,091
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If they give me the credit, I don't mark the book with a problem. If they refuse (which no one has), I would have to mark the book as received with a problem.

I'd urge you to reconsider this.  Any time you receive a book that doesn't meet the site's standards I think you should mark it received with a problem.  If it really was just a mistake, it won't hurt their membership here at all.  If it wasn't, there's no other way to keep track of who is sending out bad books.

And, personally, I just hate, hate HATE it when someone says "I'll mark it received with a problem if I don't get my credit back."  I feel like I'm being blackmailed. I'd much rather have someone just mark it as a problem then ask for their credit back.  I'm more comfortable with that situation all the way around.

Date Posted: 1/23/2008 8:05 AM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,695
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Well, other than the initial reply that I mentioned above the person that sent me a book that was in very poor condition (should not have been posted) will not communicate with me, has not answered any of my PM's.  Doesn't it say somewhere that refusal to reply to PM's regarding book condition is like "admission of guilt"?  Does you think that applies if they responded to the intial complaint but, won't respond thereafter?  I'm just trying to decide if I should at the end of the week report their non-responsiveness to R&R!  What do ya'll think?

Date Posted: 1/23/2008 10:06 AM ET
Member Since: 12/20/2006
Posts: 4
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>>>I'd urge you to reconsider this.  Any time you receive a book that doesn't meet the site's standards I think you should mark it received with a problem.  If it really was just a mistake, it won't hurt their membership here at all.  If it wasn't, there's no other way to keep track of who is sending out bad books.<<<

It's not a matter of a book not meeting "my" standards; it's a matter of the book not meeting PBS posting standards. :-) If I order a book, I think it's only fair that it should meet PBS standards. I'm  not sure what you mean by "if it was a mistake, it won't hurt their membership here at all." How would anyone ever know if it was a true mistake, and aren't all books marked as "received with a problem" on one's record at PBS? What I mean is how would it not hurt their record? After I recieve my refund of credit, I mark the book as sent without a problem, BUT I make a note to PBS in the bottom box and list the issue that "was" a problem. This way there is a record of  some kind of how the transaction played out.

I didn't/don't like the idea of holding the refund of credit over someone's head. That's just not "me." I really had to think a long time about that before I ever did it. Frustration finally won out.  I was time and again receiving books, children's books, specifically, that were in terrible condition and violated posting guidelines. If I marked the book as damaged right away, then that upset the person and they weren't so eager to work with me. If I marked the book as okay and then tried to get them to give me the refund, then they were often not willing to do that ...and I had no leverage at that point. It was very frustrating. So, I contacted PBS  and asked if it would be okay to handle it the way I have stated previously. I didn't like the idea of marking a book as damaged if it truly was an honest error on the part of a newbie. They encouraged me to do it the way I'm doing it, stating that they are trying to come up with something similar for PBS.

Once PBS backed me up on what I wanted to do, I did it and it has worked wonderfully. I cringe every time I request a refund, but by cutting and pasting the guidelines in my PM to a person, they are being educated, so to speak, on PBS posting guidelines. Hopefully by reading those guidelines and by having to refund a credit, they will look more closely at their books before they post them again, and hopefully this issue will wane here at PBS.



P.S. -- I don't usually check these boards, so if you "really" have something to say/ask in regard to my particular situation, you might want to send a PM. Thank you. :-)


Last Edited on: 1/23/08 10:08 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/23/2008 10:14 AM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
Posts: 5,762
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I totally get it Bren.  There is nothing in the posting guidelines that says "If your book is really old, feel free to send it in crappy condition".  Old or not, if it should have been thrown in a trash can, then throw it in a trash can, don't post it for swapping on PBS.

I also don't get the mentality that these books are free.  I have a stack of book sitting by the front door that I mailing out tomorrow.  It is going to cost me a book plus postage to get a credit.  It's not like I get to come on here and just order as many free books as I want without doing anything to earn them.

Anyway, I hope you get your credits back, and I'm sorry your books were in lousy shape.

Date Posted: 1/23/2008 10:36 AM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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All RWAP transactions should be marked RWAP. Now if you PM the person ahead of time, and the person refunds your credit, feel free to put that in the notes when marking RWAP (The book had x problem, but sender refunded my credit when I pointed out the problem.)

Let's say I'm a "dud" sender. I send out really crappy books to get credits so I can get better books. I know that I'm sending out bad books, but when only 1 of 10 asks for a refund, I gladly give it, because I just got 9 credits from folks who don't mark me RWAP. And then, there are the members who ask for a credit back and offer to mark my book received, as if I didn't send a junky book! BONUS! No black mark! So I can go to the trash bin and pick out smaller books that I can send out at first-class rate and get $3.50 credits for less than $2. I can even guarantee my credits by using the PBS postage, and order a new book the seond I mark the book mailed. (Hey, I got the books from the dumpster, so who cares about that surcharge?)

A problem transaction should always be marked a problem transaction. It's the only way to find those who habitually send out bad books.

Date Posted: 1/23/2008 11:25 AM ET
Member Since: 2/22/2007
Posts: 510
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Lorna, your book bazaar experience sounds exactly like mine; down to exact same problems with all the books...think maybe there is connection? The member offered 7/1 or 15 /2 books ...thank goodness I only took the 7.


Sheri ^5. I am also tired of receiving crap books. I even have a link to images with bad spines but it doesn't deter nor stop the majority that is sending the crappy books. My experience with most when requesting a refund is “they weren't that way when I mailed them" or " odd, you are the only one to complain." I don't expect new books (nice surprise when they are) but I do expect the guidelines to be followed by all members. I truly wished there was a different system implemented for members that don't follow the guidelines.





Date Posted: 1/23/2008 2:02 PM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2008
Posts: 204
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Uh-oh. Sorry to hear this. I just ordered my first 3 books from Pbs. They haven't arrived yet, but I'm eager to see their condition. I'm a bit anal when it comes to book condition. I like books to be near mint...I'll tolerate minor shelf wear since that is inevitable...I'll even tolerate yellowing pages. But excessive creases, tears, and a cocked spine tick me off (especially when the spine is so bent that pages nearly fall out). Corner compression on hard cover books also infuriate me because a hard cover should be like a knight's body armor...there should be no damage to it if you are careful.  A book has to be put through hell to damage its hard cover.

Anyway, I just made myself sound like an obsessive compulsive prick, but I can't help it. I like nice books.

How often would you say you receive a book that doesn't meet PBS' condition criteria?

Date Posted: 1/23/2008 2:14 PM ET
Member Since: 12/23/2005
Posts: 1,159
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Mike, I hope you set conditions for the books you request. I receive a lot of nice books but some have lots of wear also. And yes I received some that should have never been posted.