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Topic: GRRRR! Sender Lied re: the Mail Date

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Subject: GRRRR! Sender Lied re: the Mail Date
Date Posted: 8/12/2011 2:01 AM ET
Member Since: 1/12/2009
Posts: 262
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Got a book yesterday after PMing the sender saying I was worried it was going to go lost in  the mail.   Also got 2 emails from PBS asking if it had come yet...  She printed the address and marked it  mailed 7/18, and the postmark read 8/5.  No response to PM's either...  Somehow, I don't think she deserves or should receive a credit.  Her delay for 3 wks. caused it to fall off the WL list, so now I'm not in a hurry to read it.  What do you do in this situation?  Does PBS track someone's account when they do this?  It is too bad, too, b/c she has quite a few books on my RL that I will not order from her now...can't trust the dates she marks!   :(



Last Edited on: 8/12/11 2:03 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Lori M. (ripley) - ,
Date Posted: 8/12/2011 2:09 AM ET
Member Since: 12/19/2005
Posts: 1,564
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Annoying, but i would think that as long as it arrived within the specified time all you can do is make a note of it and mark it as received.

Date Posted: 8/12/2011 2:12 AM ET
Member Since: 1/1/2009
Posts: 1,924
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The help center says:

Books that arrive with a late postmark need to be marked received normally, and the information about the postmark should be recorded in the survey portion of the Book Received page.

  • Providing the late postmark while marking the book received page will generate an auto-email to the sender of the book, reminding him or her that late mailing is not acceptable at PBS.
    • The email includes the information that the late postmark could have been entered in error
    • The email includes the information that sometimes postmarks are delayed a few days, even if the book was mailed on time
    • The email includes the information that if the late mailing was agreed to by the requestor, this is not a problem
  • You can contact the sender using the text box provided while marking the book received
    • Please be gentle!  You can't know what might have delayed this shipment
  • If the book was declared lost in the mail and you requested and received (or will receive) a second copy because you thought the first one was really lost:
    • If the postmark was from the week before the book was declared lost (or later!), and you got no notification from the sender that the book would be/was mailed late: you do not have to mark this book received (this is the ONE case in which you don't have to mark a received book received: if a very late mailer without notice caused you to reorder the book and end up with two copies).  
    • OR: You can mark it received to note the late postmark, and ask for your credit back in your Personal Message to the sender.  If you don't hear back/don't get the credit back within 3 days you should contact us using the Feedback link at the top of the Contact Us page.
    • You can also note this information about the late mailing in the Comments box at the bottom of the Book Received page, while marking the book received: this will go onto the sender's record.
  • A pattern of late mailing will cause account suspension and possibly termination of membership
    • Sometimes late mailing happens for very good reasons, but chronic late mailing will not be tolerated.

Date Posted: 8/12/2011 2:13 AM ET
Member Since: 1/12/2009
Posts: 262
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Yeah - that is what I thought, too.  Darn!  Seems like it just isn't right or necessary to do this.  I think she marked it mailed before the 5 days gave out, so she'd get the credit, even if she couldn't actually mail it on time.   Just that I really hate being lied to!!!  :)  So glad others don't do  this!

Date Posted: 8/12/2011 2:18 AM ET
Member Since: 1/1/2009
Posts: 1,924
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 Something could have come up but she should have let you know what was really going on. I glad it didn't go lost at least. If this is a trend for her account the team will deal with her!

Date Posted: 8/12/2011 2:20 AM ET
Member Since: 1/12/2009
Posts: 262
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Kim, thanks for the Help section.  That about sums it all up, the only thing is that they haven't updated Help to recognize the new Book Received page.  That's OK, though, I wrote the email to the sender.  Just didn't know if the PTB would know anything about it...guess they will, though, and that's all that matters now.  End of story!  Thanks!

Happy reading!

Date Posted: 8/12/2011 3:38 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,171
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If you are really sure it was mailed late (such as counter postage) ... doesn't the new log-in system allow us to RWAP for late mail?  Not that I receive many, but thought I'd seen that somewhere??

Date Posted: 8/12/2011 4:21 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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... doesn't the new log-in system allow us to RWAP for late mail? Yes, it is marked as a "problem" and the late mailing is selected, but it will go to the Transaction Archive with a green check mark. The new system kind of outdates the RWAP context because the receiving a book in with a "problem" includes a few things that log the transaction in as successful, it just notes the transaction with additional information.

 

The sender sent the book and you didn't receive another copy. The book got to you within the time PBS gives for a timely mailed book. Doesn't seem like too big of a hardship that you would feel that the sender shouldn't get the credit and you should get to have the book you requested and keep the credit. Yes, the sender should have contacted you about the late mailing, but you are really not out anything you wouldn't have been out had they mailed the book on time.

Date Posted: 8/12/2011 5:14 AM ET
Member Since: 11/28/2010
Posts: 754
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I've heard people say on this site that the post mark might not even be from the day the person mailed it.   It could be from anywhere along the route from there to you.

 Is the post marked date from the city she mailed it from?

It also could ahve been "lost" at the post office for a while.

Date Posted: 8/12/2011 5:24 AM ET
Member Since: 11/28/2010
Posts: 754
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I've also seen threads on here of people saying that they DID mail their book on a certain day, but the post mark on the package is for a later date.  And now it looks like they did something wrong and they didn't.

Date Posted: 8/12/2011 8:21 AM ET
Member Since: 7/12/2010
Posts: 4,177
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WOW

Date Posted: 8/12/2011 8:23 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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Sometimes life happens and gets in the way.  A late mailed book is not the end of the world. It could have been a one time honest mistake for this person.  Fill in the post mark date.  If it's a trend with this person PBS will deal with it.  You got the book before it went lost.  No big deal.  There's no guarantee that if she mailed the book the day you requested that it would have been received before it went lost.  Or that it would have still been WL by the time you received it. 

There might come a time where you get a book request then life gets in the way (sick kid, car trouble, bad weather etc..,) and mail a book late.  I had a sender PM me once that she found the book to me that she gave her husband to mail, in the trunk of his car.   She didn't PM until the book was about to go lost. I wouldn't have even noticed the postage date if she hadn't PM'd because I just don't worry about that.

She should have answered your PM though. 



Last Edited on: 8/12/11 8:23 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/12/2011 8:34 AM ET
Member Since: 10/6/2005
Posts: 10,707
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If you drop a package in the blue bin, it most likely won't get postmarked until  the receiver's home post office. Double check the postmark zip code against the sender's zip code. If they aren't the same, the sender probably didn't do anything wrong.

Date Posted: 8/12/2011 10:32 AM ET
Member Since: 3/13/2009
Posts: 202
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You never know what is occuring in the other persons life.

About one year ago we received a life changing message: Our son was terribly ill in New York City.  We live in rural Missouri--100 miles from the airport. Our other son got us airplane tickets. It was taking off in 4 hours!!

We packed, went to Post office to stop mail, drove 5 miles over the speed limit the whole way praying for no traffic jams or road repair, and got to the gate about 15 minutes before takeoff.

The last thing on our mind was PBS. We had books in all stages- going, coming and in between. It was about a week before we could straighten things out.

So , please, be a little generous, and patient, as you never know what's going on in the other house.

mistie -
Date Posted: 8/12/2011 1:24 PM ET
Member Since: 9/27/2007
Posts: 2,017
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"Her delay for 3 wks. caused it to fall off the WL list, so now I'm not in a hurry to read it."

Popular books that have only just changed from wishlisted to posted status still will get ordered fairly quickly from the FIFO list for a shortish period. Until supply exceeds demand by a substantial amount, then they become those books with huge numbers posted that will take forever to get requested. I would suggest you still read the book quickly and get it posted.

Date Posted: 8/12/2011 1:34 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,171
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It's rare that I can actually read a postmark on incoming packages.  But counter postage is a fair indication of late mailing. 

I received one recently that was mailed with counter postage dated at least 10 days after it was marked mailed.  Yeah, it's summer, RL happens and all that...my book arrived in good condition and I'm a happy camper.  But I did pm the sender and gently reminded her about the new log in 'late' option...and mentioned that PBS states the sender should pm if they find themselves in this situation. 

PBS rules advise member communication for these things, and IMO it helps alot in cases where there's a potential problem.  Nobody would be cranky to receive a pm 'we experienced a family emergency (weather or whatever) your book was mailed yesterday, sincerely sorry for the delay.'

Last winter a member pm'd me a bit stressed because she lived in one of those areas hit by big storms.  She couldn't safely get out to mail the book and it was close to timing-out.  I advised her to mark the book mailed before FIFO timed out the transaction, and then mail when it was safe and convient for her to do so.  She pm'd when it was in the mail a few days later...took awhile to arrive b/c mail was disrupted all over the area, but it still arrived well before the lost date. 

 



Last Edited on: 8/12/11 1:35 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/12/2011 11:48 PM ET
Member Since: 1/12/2009
Posts: 262
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Thanks for all the ideas.  Of course, I understand that "things happen", life gets in the way, etc.  As mentioned above, I would never fault someone who was late IF THEY JUST PM'd and let me know what was going on.  But to completely not even respond...?  She printed the label twice, but still hand wrote it, so that is a clue that something was up.  And yes, the book did arrive before it timed out, so I am grateful.  Wasn't aware that the new format had a late mailing in the problem section, either.  There are usually so few problems that I've never used it!  It just rankled me that she put the date on there and delayed another three wks..  The zip and the date were very legible, so I know it was mailed in her town 3 wks. after she stated it for PBS.  Again, I think she just needed to mark it mailed so the credit wouldn't time out.  Maybe she was still reading it herself and couldn't get it finished in time?  Doesn't matter - a simple PM would have been the answer.

Date Posted: 8/13/2011 1:16 AM ET
Member Since: 1/1/2009
Posts: 1,924
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 I agree, a simple PM is what should have happened.

Date Posted: 8/19/2011 7:27 AM ET
Member Since: 5/18/2007
Posts: 13,188
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I honestly will never understand why it is such a big deal that a book was mailed "late" if it was received before it went lost and it arrived in good condition. I just don't get it -- I have other things to worry about instead of whether a postmark matches the date a PBS member marked it mailed. I also have pleeeeenty to read until I get the book too. I'm going to hazard a guess that most of us have plenty to read until yet another book arrives in the mail for us. 

I think it's a bit too much micro-managing to keep track so I don't. 

As for the book falling off the wishlist, I order books because I want to read them. I have books on my WL because I want to read them. A little flip of the switch from wishlisted to nonwishlisted  doesn't make me want to read the book any less. 

Date Posted: 8/19/2011 10:14 AM ET
Member Since: 5/15/2008
Posts: 193
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Susan: I honestly will never understand why it is such a big deal that a book was mailed "late" if it was received before it went lost and it arrived in good condition.

Partly, it's the principle of the matter -- there are rules, and the "do unto others as you wish others would do to you".  Every person on this site made a commitment, a promise, to mail books within a certain time period.  And for them to mark a book mailed, when it wasn't actually mailed, is just plain lying and deceitful.  It says something about that person's character.

I might not need that book right away -- but also, the longer you put off mailing the book, the longer you're likely to forget it, and the more likely I could have receieved it from the next person in line.  Also, it makes me more suspiscious that you're one of those people who list books you're not quite ready or willing to mail out right away, as a way to cheat the system and get credits earlier.
 

It all boils down to honesty and trust -- which is something this site depends on.

If not having time limits enforced is something that matters to you, then go to a site like BookMooch.  But be warned -- a lot less people are on there, patially because a lot of people get frustrated with the lack of rules or enforcement.

Date Posted: 8/19/2011 12:01 PM ET
Member Since: 1/7/2005
Posts: 608
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Sometimes people don't have money to mail books out right away and they may not be willing to say so. Also, the rules permit people to mark books mailed before the actual mailing under certain circumstances.

Date Posted: 8/19/2011 12:09 PM ET
Member Since: 5/15/2008
Posts: 193
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Yes, but most of those circumstances require sending a PM to the requester, so that they can ask for the request to be cancelled by the sender.  And your first point, Elaine, is also part of the dishonesty I'm mentioning.  When you post a book, the system asks, (paraphrased) "Are you sure you have the book, in good condition, and ready to send out?"   If you don't have the money for postage, then you lied -- you're not ready to mail out the book.  The system asked you a question, and you lied.  It's part of the trust required by this system.

As a matter of habit, I report all postmark dates, but I generally don't check them myself to see if they are in compliance, I just fill out the survey, and let TPTB make the call.  I've only had a couple of problems like that here, but have had many at other sites that have less stringent rules.  So I appreciate the need for the rules, and the enforcement.

Date Posted: 8/19/2011 12:19 PM ET
Member Since: 1/7/2005
Posts: 608
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Maybe the Sender thought that she had the money. I have to have compassion for people who are short of money. I remember another thread where someone was all bent out of shape about her request being canceled because the Sender came right out and said that she didn't have the money for mailing it. I got tired of the drama and mentioned politely that I had to have compassion, etc. The Requester waxed irate and responded accordingly. I thought that maybe I had been too hard on her and I posted a much-sought-after WL book to her directly. I believe that I even sent her a credit to cover the order. She refused the book! I'm sure that the next person was happy to get it. I am too busy to police PBS and criticize people all the time. I am always reluctant to even imply that other people are dishonest.

Date Posted: 8/19/2011 12:22 PM ET
Member Since: 5/15/2008
Posts: 193
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Work a retail job for a week or two, and you'll realize - most people, sadly, are dishonest, or at least do not care about others very much.  It's the reason every town has a police station.

Date Posted: 8/19/2011 12:25 PM ET
Member Since: 1/7/2005
Posts: 608
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I have worked retail and I would not say that most people are dishonest or uncaring.

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