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Topic: How many RWAPs can you get?

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Subject: How many RWAPs can you get?
Date Posted: 10/23/2010 2:23 PM ET
Member Since: 1/21/2006
Posts: 125
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In the past six months I've gotten four RWAP - Sender's Fault books, and I'm starting to worry if this will negatively affect my account.

One was genuinely my fault - the book was a little chewed up.  I thought it might be OK, because I received it through PBS.  I wasn't sure if the book had actually been chewed or if it was just scuffed up at the edges.  But the recipient thought it was chewed, so  I promptly refunded the credit and the person I sent the book to marked the transaction resolved.

The other three transactions were from people who don't like BookCrossing books.  All of my books have one BookCrossing.com label taped to the inner front cover.  No writing, no stickers on the outer cover, no stamps.  These people did not have any Requestor Conditions, so I refused to refund their credits because I don't think I did anything wrong.  BookCrossing books are allowed, and if they don't want to receive them they need to say so.  Right?

I've got three unresolved transactions on my record now.  Should I be worried?


Edit to add - The books were in good/very good condition, except for the chewed one.  No loose pages, spine creases, tears, external marks, etc.

Last Edited on: 10/23/10 2:32 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 10/23/2010 2:30 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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Well I wouldn't worry about it if they didn't have  anti-bookcrossing RCs.  But I would probably stop trading books here with BC stickers on them if I had had 3 complaints about it so far.  Anyway-PBS can see if the requestors had RCs requesting no bookcrossing stickers or not.  So if they didnt' then you did nothing wrong.  I personally would just want to have anymore complaints and so would leave the stickers off any books I wanted to trade here.  Or if it's really important to you-you can PM people who request books from you, before you put the sticker on, and ask if they mind-and only put it on if the respond that it's ok.

Date Posted: 10/23/2010 2:40 PM ET
Member Since: 6/28/2009
Posts: 5,738
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Last Edited on: 5/27/11 6:00 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
mistie -
Date Posted: 10/23/2010 2:44 PM ET
Member Since: 9/27/2007
Posts: 2,024
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Bookcrossing books are perfectly acceptable on PBS.com There is no reason you should not be able to post them. If members do not wish to receive them, they need to have a RC to that effect (the same way you need an RC for any other aspect you personally don't accept for a postable book).

 I personally do have an "anti-bookcrossing RC, as well as an "anti-library" one - simply becasue I have aprefernce for books without stickers/labels etc.

As for the actual number of RWAP you can get without generating "check-ups" on your account, that is not a figure that is published by TPTB - if there is an actual figure at all. Personally, I don't think you have any cuase for concern - even of your account was "flagged" and "checked" you have done nothing "wrong" so, I can't see how there could be any problem.

Date Posted: 10/23/2010 3:08 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,225
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Since the Team can clearly see that the 3 receivers were at fault on the Bookcrossing sticker RWAP, I wouldn't worry about them at all. If your account was questioned they'd look at that and see they were marked in error. As long as you didn't get mean and nasty with the member, the Team would not hold those against you.  I personally would have insisted that those members mark the follow-up as marked-RWAP-in-error once they looked at the posting rules and could see they were wrong.

There is no reason to not post perfectly postable books just because a few people didn't like getting them. Many people don't like getting HCs without dust jackets, ex-library books, or books with people's names written on the edge of the pages too, yet all are perfectly fine to be posted here and it is the receivers' responsibility to set up RCs to avoid them.

Date Posted: 10/23/2010 3:19 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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I guess to me being able to put that sticker on and having to deal with possible complaints just woudn't be worth the hassle-on the off chance that the receiver actually logs the book into the system. 

If you keep putting them on then you will just have to deal with the possibility of someone else complaining.  But like we said-it shouldn't count against you unless you ignored RCS.

Date Posted: 10/23/2010 4:02 PM ET
Member Since: 1/21/2006
Posts: 125
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Thanks for the quick responses, guys!


I personally would just want to have anymore complaints and so would leave the stickers off any books I wanted to trade here

As long as it won't count against me, I don't mind the complaints.  I'm a BookCrosser before I'm a Paperback Swapper; I really like that site and enjoy registering my books there. laugh


As long as you didn't get mean and nasty with the member, the Team would not hold those against you.

I don't get mean or nasty, but I do get terse sometimes.  Here's what I responded to the most recent complaint:

The book is not damaged.
[The user had marked the book 'damaged by sender'.]  BookCrossing.com labels are permissible under PBS's rules. If you visit the Book Condition Criteria page, it states the following:
"BookCrossing books may have stickers or stamps or markings on the outside or inside covers or page edges of the book; this is OKAY."

If you do not wish to receive BookCrossing books, you can go to your settings and add Requestor Conditions to future requests stating you do not want to receive books with stickers, library markings, BookCrossing labels, or any other requirements you may have.

I am sorry you are disappointed, but I did ship the books quickly and followed all of PBS's rules."

Like I said, I don't mind the complaints per se, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to be penalized for them.

Date Posted: 10/23/2010 4:25 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,225
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:) Your answer sounds perfectly fine. I didn't mean to insinuate that you might have been mean and nasty, I've just learned to clarify answers I give to cover all bases.

I think the receivers would be frowned on more than you in these cases since they are obviously not reading the rules before marking the books RWAP.

Date Posted: 10/23/2010 4:38 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,485
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The way PBS works is that there is a secret criteria where after a certain percent of RWAP, then your account gets reviewed by a human.  If it is clear why, then no problem.  If it looks like there is a problem, then PBS puts you on hold while they contact you.   This is why it is important to respond to RWAPs though the book order page, so the dialogue will stay attached to the transaction and be easy for PBS to find when reviewing your account.  And always respond.  Not responding is a serious violation to PBS.

You don't get kicked off without contact.  Well, you do for rule violations such as multiple accounts.  Or failing to respond repeatedly.   But not for RWAP. 

Date Posted: 10/23/2010 5:05 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,354
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Your answer is clear and helpful, Suzi.  You're educating the other member and pointing him to the help docs.  You could add directions on how to submit feedback that the book was marked "received with a problem" in error, in case the other member wants to right the wrong.  If they don't make the correction, though, there's nothing to worry about in these cases.

Date Posted: 10/23/2010 7:11 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,695
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 I don't have an RC about bookcrossing labels but, 1) I won't register them and 2) I have been known to take the label out of the book before I pass it on because I don't know if the receiver can say from whom they received the book and I don't want my name listed.

Date Posted: 10/23/2010 7:40 PM ET
Member Since: 9/8/2009
Posts: 626
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I won't trade a BookCrossing book for the same reason, Christy.  I received a couple in a row and on one my name WAS listed.  I had not been asked or even warned about it.  Seeing this thread reminded me to create an RC (my first ever) declining BookCrossing books. 

I'm not opposed to the BookCrossing theory -- in fact, I think it's pretty cool -- I just wish the labels were Post-It note types rather than permanent, so that the receiver could decide whether to continue it on.  I know, I know, it's been discussed here that permanency is the point of the labels, but personally I think they just deface a book.  A removable label/sticker would serve the same purpose. 

Still, it doesn't make a book RWAP and I'm sorry that that happened to you, Suzi.

Date Posted: 10/23/2010 7:57 PM ET
Member Since: 8/6/2006
Posts: 1,619
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You know, I've received 450+ books from PBS and I don't recall ever getting one that had a Book Crossing sticker.  Not that I would care if it did. Just seems to be a lot of fuss about nothing to me. I have seen plenty of books with price stickers or yard sale stickers. I'm going to read it and repost it so why would I care one way or the other about a sticker? I guess if it's a book for somebody's keep-it-forever shelf it might matter.  Just one more thing for people to nitpick over on a used book site IMO.

Date Posted: 10/23/2010 8:12 PM ET
Member Since: 5/25/2010
Posts: 262
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Alisa, I think that people's experiences are different because they trade different sorts of books. Some people trade dozens of books before they have a problem of any kind - others have lots. Personally, if I reported every RWAP I received, I imagine I'd be investigated for being too particular, since probably a quarter or a third of the books I receive qualify. But that's because of the kinds of books I request (lots of textbooks).

I wouldn't care about a sticker either, but I have to say that finding my name listed on a website, if the person after me goes to the Bookcrossing site, does sound like a problem to me. If I ever do get a Bookcrossing book, and decide to pass it on, I think I'll send a PM to the requestor to avoid that.

Date Posted: 10/23/2010 9:34 PM ET
Member Since: 8/25/2007
Posts: 13,134
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I've been a member for just over 3 years and have received well over 1,300 books. Only one has been a Book Crossing book.  Didn't bother me at all.

Date Posted: 10/23/2010 11:08 PM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
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If someone had gotten my full name from this site and registered it on another site without my consent, I would have reported them to the PBS Team. That is not okay.

Date Posted: 10/23/2010 11:20 PM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2009
Posts: 37,807
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How would you know if your name was put on the site?

Date Posted: 10/23/2010 11:22 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2007
Posts: 3,044
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I think if they went to the site and plugged in the specific ID number for that particular book, it would come up with the history of the book, which would include names if someone had added them. I'm just guessing though.

I've only ever received one Bookcrossing book. I registered it out of curiosity. It then was sent on to a friend in Canada. I doubt she ever did anything with the Bookcrossing aspect of it.

ETA: So I logged in and looked at the book entry I made. It appears to have gone through what they're calling a "ring of readers" before it was posted on PBS. It was a 5 person ring. I think the only time someone else's name is on the site without their permission (mine is only there as I registered it) is if someone makes a journal entry saying who they're sending it to.

Last Edited on: 10/23/10 11:26 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/24/2010 6:27 AM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1,442
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Suzi, I didn't think your reply was terse at all.  If it happens in the future, I might recommend that you add one more line to the PM reading something like: 

"I would appreciate it if you would go to your Transaction Archive and mark this as "Resolved" or "Marked with a problem incorrectly".

Sorry I don't know the exact wording for the latter; hopefully someone can help me out here...  Since the requestor had no RC, you did nothing wrong by sending the bookCrossing books.

Last Edited on: 10/24/10 6:28 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/24/2010 9:35 PM ET
Member Since: 8/19/2007
Posts: 4,408
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I've received two bookcrossing books.  The first one I registered, but made no bones about the fact that it wasn't going anywhere, that I was keeping it.  The second one I just never registered. Can't remember if it's a keeper or not, but won't worry about it until I read it and will decide then whether I'm keeping it or posting it.  Pat

Date Posted: 10/24/2010 11:47 PM ET
Member Since: 10/23/2010
Posts: 244
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Last Edited on: 12/19/10 11:11 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/25/2010 5:11 AM ET
Member Since: 1/22/2008
Posts: 695
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Just one thing to add for those that decide to create an RC about Bookcrossing books.  You may want to clarity what it is. When I received an RC about it, I had never heard of it and thought the were talking about not wanting book club editions of books.

Last Edited on: 10/25/10 5:12 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/25/2010 1:03 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,805
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Amanda, if I were you I wouldn't worry.

Only a very, very few members of PBS even post on the boards.

Of those few, a very very few complain about BC stamps.

They are allowed.  Post and send your books.

If someone marks a book "received with a problem", nicely let them know they are wrong and don't return their credit.  Then move on without letting it bother you too much.

Welcome - and have fun!  There are thousands upon thousands of swaps that have no problems at all!!!

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 10/25/2010 1:25 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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Amanda, RWAP = Received With A Problem  (It is the method PBS uses to maintain book quality control.  Members are supposed to mark a book as RWAP if the book they receive does not meet posting guidelines.)

I have a note in my RCs about being notified about BookCrossing books.  Still, I almost always happily receive them, and even have joined BookCrossing myself to pass on the BookCrossing books that have come my way, although I haven't yet "tagged" any of my own sendout books as BookCrossing books yet...  I will probably "mark" them with bookmark or removeable tag (as I've received a few BC books this way also and they seem less likely to cause problems for other members).

BookCrossing books and books with stickers are perfectly postable here, and as the others have said, I would not worry about RWAP transactions about these as the Team would clearly see that these were RWAP in error.  (Although, also as mentioned above, I would add the note to my response asking them to please remove the RWAP by marking the transaction as 'marked RWAP in error'.)

Date Posted: 10/25/2010 1:43 PM ET
Member Since: 10/23/2010
Posts: 244
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Last Edited on: 12/19/10 11:10 AM ET - Total times edited: 1