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Topic: Howard's End - Chapters 12-22

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Subject: Howard's End - Chapters 12-22
Date Posted: 10/10/2008 6:44 PM ET
Member Since: 4/16/2008
Posts: 576
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we're well on our way now!

Date Posted: 10/15/2008 8:27 PM ET
Member Since: 6/19/2007
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Wow, I do not have a good opinion of Helen at this point.  She's so clueless and immature.  She treats Bast like a doll that she can dress up and parade around, setting him up to do whatever she wants.  She treats him the same way she treats Evie's puppies; she coos over him for a little while, then goes back to her own nice neat little world. 

I do like and admire Meg.  I like her balanced combination of practicalness and real affection for Henry Wilcox.  I think she has the same idealistic tendencies as Helen, but she knows that they're ideals and that they can go too far.

I feel really bad for Bast.  If he knew what was good for him he'd stay far away from the Schlegels.  Trying to fit in with them is just going to make him miserable.

Last Edited on: 10/15/08 11:16 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/15/2008 11:00 PM ET
Member Since: 12/27/2007
Posts: 702
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It surprised me a little that Henry Wilcox and Margaret are getting married.  It will be interesting since they are so different.  I also like the fact that Meg's family may get to be at Howard's End after all (at some point, I would think). 

I also feel sorry for Bast since he evidently left his job because of the business predictions of Wilcox, which proved to be wrong.


Date Posted: 10/20/2008 4:10 PM ET
Member Since: 2/21/2008
Posts: 310
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Is anyone else seeing the similarities between Margaret and Mrs. Wilcox?  I think this may be why Henry is marrying Margaret.  She sort of reminds him of his first wife.

Both have their own money (Mrs. Wilcox had Howard's End; Margaret has 600 pounds a year)

Both are passionate individuals

Both have their own way of doing things.

What is interesting is the reaction of the familities.  Neither is happy with the arrangement.  Even Margaret seems to show doubt in Henry when they first kiss.  I know this was written in a time when showing emotion was frowned upon (perhaps that is why Forester made the girls half German-this was their passionate side!) but it appears that the marriage may not be what both parties are hoping for.  Obviously, Henry does like her but she admits to her sister she is not in love, but later tries to show the emotion with him.

It is getting interesting...

Date Posted: 10/26/2008 4:29 PM ET
Member Since: 4/16/2008
Posts: 576
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I haven't finished this section yet but I thought I would make a few comments on where I'm at.

I fell like the schlegels live a life of controlled chaos. When they are not all together they are relatively calm...and then they get together and mayhem breaks out! well it feels like it. But that's how I imagine a lot of families are with more than one sibling (I wouldn't know as I'm an only child lol). But even though when they are talking to eachother and stuff it feels chaotic, it also feels comforting at the same time.  You can tell that they all love eachother and care about eachother very much!

I'm just to the point where Henry is speaking with Meg and Helen about Bast's company.  I wondered momentarily if Mr. Wilcox and Meg would be getting invloved in anyway because they clearly like eachother...and then I thought, no he's too old for her...but then I remembered that at this point Meg is at least 31 so she's not horribly younger because he's probably only about 52 or so...but then I thought that something is going to happen with Charles and his wife and I thought that maybe Meg would get involved with him...but then I noticed in a post higher up that Meg and Mr. Wilcox do get married! (I swear I was trying not to read them. lol) so now I'm going to finish the last few chapter so I can see how that unfolds!  (good thing for me that spoilers don't actually spoil things for me!)

Date Posted: 10/27/2008 1:31 AM ET
Member Since: 4/16/2008
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okay, I just finished the section. I'm surprised now that Meg is going to marry Henry. They don't seem right for eachother at all!

I also liked how in ch 22 the line from the title page "only connect" came back. It seems like the Wilcox's and the Schlegels are opposites and the union between Meg and Henry would allow for a "connection".  It also appears that this is what Meg is trying to do. It sounds like she might fail though. I don't know how she is going to get Henry to notice more things beyond what he already does.

I'm also not liking Charles or Evie.  They both seem like spoiled little brats. Even more so than Helen. Tibby is right up there too though. So far I haven't liked him very much at all.

Vanessa - I agree with you about Bast. I'm anxious to see what happens to him.

Date Posted: 10/27/2008 9:32 AM ET
Member Since: 8/20/2006
Posts: 1,930
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Vanessa - I agree Helen is very immature for her age!

I was not surprised by Margaret and Henry getting engaged but it did happen so suddenly. When Henry sat down on the bench between Margaret and Helen I had an inkling they would get together later. I know people had arranged marriages and shorter courtships back then but I could not imagine marrying someone I barely know.

I also feel sorry for Bast since he evidently left his job because of the business predictions of Wilcox, which proved to be wrong.

I agree Vivian.

Tibby is just a sad character to me. In chapter 12 Forster examines Tibby's Oxford. "His Oxford remained Oxford empty, and he took into life with him, not the memory of a radiance, but the memory of a color scheme." Tibby seems socially inept and does not appear to have any friends.

At the beginning of Chapter 19 Forster descriptions of the English land made me want to start planning another trip to England!

Hannah - Charles and Evie do seem like spoiled brats!

Date Posted: 10/27/2008 12:54 PM ET
Member Since: 4/16/2008
Posts: 576
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I agree with you, Sheila, on Tibby. There was also a point where Forster pointed out that Evie had met Tibby at Oxford and really didn't like him. Which I know isn't saying much since Evie is obnoxious....but I think socially inept is a good way of describing him.