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Topic: I'm lost.

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Subject: I'm lost.
Date Posted: 10/27/2010 2:19 PM ET
Member Since: 10/5/2010
Posts: 196
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So I'm a little bit lost here. I got a message from another PBS member telling me that I was wrong to post my books and it violates the terms and conditions. I have on my 2 for 1 book list books that are in poorer condition with 1 book having a torn front cover and the rest just have highlights or notes in them. A couple of those books are also text books. I didn't post them in my bookshelves but in a list and clearly stated that there's minor writings/highlighting in them if anyone wants it. The member that messaged me stated that they violate the rules to even just post them in a list and I can't ask credit for them but rather give them away for free in the Book Bazaar section?

Here's what she wrote to me:

"Hello, I see that you are new to the book club. I was looking at your trade 2 for 1 link. You have some interesting titles here. But, you should probably know that it is against club rules to offer books without covers or in poor condition (missing/torn pages, highlighting, etc.)(unless you are offering to send them free as in the "Damaged Book" thread in the Book Bazaar discussion forum. Someone else will eventually PM you as well about this who is from the book club management. I just thought I'd give you a chance to take the damaged books off your list before you were told to. I read your profile and you seemed like the kind of person who would want to be told about this before it became a problem."

Date Posted: 10/27/2010 2:29 PM ET
Member Since: 5/25/2010
Posts: 262
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I can't answer about the missing/torn pages question. But covers can be slightly torn and still be postable (I don't remember the details, check the help section), and any book with writing and highlighting can be posted under the textbook clause as long as you PM the sender a description of the condition and then receive a PM okaying the transaction before you mail. So this member is mistaken.

Date Posted: 10/27/2010 2:40 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2009
Posts: 2,016
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It's okay to list unpostable books in a Book List and trade them (as long as you are not asking for more than 1 credit = 1 book), provided that if someone agrees it's done "unofficially" (i.e. through PMs and buddying credits). You can't post them onto your bookshelf. 

However, there's one book (365 Read-Aloud Bedtime Bible Stories) that seems to be on your bookshelf and your unpostable book list. I didn't go through your entire list, just something I have noticed on a cursory look. 

Last Edited on: 10/27/10 2:42 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/27/2010 2:40 PM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2009
Posts: 5,696
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Ah.  I think the problem is a little complicated.

1.  The damaged books are not posted to your shelf, which is fine.  That avoids anyone unknowingly ordering a damaged book.  It's not any different from having damaged/unpostable books listed on your profile or in your forum posts.

2. Asking credits for unpostable, non-WL books is a little dicey.  How would you do this?  Have the people post credits to your account before you send - or after they are received?  Most people offer unpostables as a freebie with orders from your shelf.  I think what you're doing is allowed, but it doesn't seem like a terribly fantastic deal.

Date Posted: 10/27/2010 2:46 PM ET
Member Since: 3/8/2009
Posts: 6,035
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I looked at the books on your list.  Some of them are wish list books.  For those it is perfectly acceptable to ask for a credit for them in the Book Bazaar and I'm assuming it is also okay in your signature as you have done. 

It is also acceptable to ask for a credit for one postable book and include a second unpostable book as a freebie. 

You may be in the gray area if you are asking for one credit for two unpostable, non-WL books.  But I would think by disclosing it the way you have and getting a clear PM trail saying that te other person is aware of the condition of the books before they ordered, then you are okay.

I believe the posting rules do say that you cannot post books without covers, because those can sometimes stolen discards.  However, in this case, it is pretty obvious that it is a small children's paperback that has lost it's cover along the way.  Not all that unusual and again, including it as a freebie in an order with a postable should be okay as long as the condition is disclosed.

Communication is the key. Anyone who wants these books will have to contact you by PM anyway since you have not put them on your bookshelf.  Even though you have disclosed the condition of the books in general in the header of your list, you should be sure that anyone who contacts you about these books gets a specific description of their condition and that you get confirmation back from them that they agree to that before you put anything in the mail.

Good luck!

Date Posted: 10/27/2010 3:04 PM ET
Member Since: 4/7/2008
Posts: 15,690
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You can ask credits for unpostables as long as you don't post them to your bookshelf. How would you swap them if you don't post them? The requestor would have to buddy you a credit and give your address via PM. However, these swaps are not sanctioned by PBS, meaning that if there's a problem, the Team would not get involved. The same with deals, even if the books are postable. If somebody offers you a deal and doesn't hold their end of the bargain, you have no recourse. That's why you have to be careful when you enter into deals.

You can ask for credits for available unpostables but most likely other members won't take you on that offer - most would prefer to spend their credits on books that postable. But there's no harm in trying. If somebody contacts you and accept the books as they are and you swap them unofficially, then it's no problem.

Date Posted: 10/27/2010 3:14 PM ET
Member Since: 1/20/2009
Posts: 2,680
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Yes, as long as the books aren't posted to your bookshelf, the requestor is aware of the condition of the books and agrees to it, the swap is done unofficially, and you don't get more than one credit per book, it's perfectly fine to do. It doesn't matter if the books are wish listed or not. PBS has no regulations on that matter. The only way that affects anything is that people are far more likely to pay credits for unpostable wish list books than they are to do so for books available in the system. That's why people often include them as a freebie with an order. Not because they have to do it that way, but because they want to get rid of them and aren't optimistic about being able to do so via PBS in any other way.

Date Posted: 10/27/2010 3:14 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,220
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I think the person is confused in their thinking that you cannot ask for credits for unpostable books. You can. As long as you are offering unpostable books and not non-book items like DVDs, music CDs, apples, clothes... 

This is also the forum for swapping "unpostable" books - those items that can't be posted to a Bookshelf.  If your book does not meet the minimum condition criteria here or it is not among items that can be posted for swapping here, then you must not post the book to your Bookshelf.  (It's not OK to post and then ask the requestor if she or he "minds" the problems with the book.)  Unpostable = don't post.  Instead, bring your tired, your poor, your unpostable masses here to the Book Bazaar, to find new homes for them! :)

When you do swap upostables for credit though, you cannot post them to the system to have them requested (the ones with writing/highlighting being the only reason they are postable could be posted under the textbook exception). You will need to have the member buddy the credits for any unpostables.

Here is the statement from the PaperbackSwap Team if they don't believe you:

Dear Melanie,

Sure, we don't mind if people ask for credits for unpostables.  If someone wants to pay credits for unpostables, then they are doing it knowing they are getting an unpostable book.  Selling anything other than books, or selling for anything other than credits, or asking or offering more than PBS price for a postable book - those things are not permitted.

Have a great day!

The PaperBackSwap Team


Date Posted: 10/27/2010 3:18 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 10,125
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Yes, I think you are within the rules.

Offering a 2 for 1 deal on unpostables is perfectly fine. You are free to ask for 1 credit each for unpostable books, Wish List or not ... it is just that it is unlikely that someone will want to pay a credit for a unpostable book that is available from the site in postable condition. That is why most people don't bother asking for credits for available unpostable books. It would not be against the rules .... but since it is unlikely that anyone would want it, is a waste of time.

However, offering a 2 for 1 deal on your unpostable list is perfectly fine. I have had people contact me who only wanted to order unpostables from me ... and they were just fine with buddying me a credit to cover most or all of the postage for a handful of books.

You are not required to offer them for free. There is a sticky in the Book Bazaar about damaged books, however, and IF you list them in that sticky, they must be offered for free. If you make our own post or advertise in your signature, like you have done, you are fine.

Date Posted: 10/27/2010 3:41 PM ET
Member Since: 10/5/2010
Posts: 196
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Thanks for the responses. All these books are in the systems except they are not in perfect conditons and thus the only reason why I'm offering 2 for 1.


Sophia C: I have 2 copies of 365 Read-Aloud Bedtime Bible Stories. I have 1 copy in perfect condition and 1 copy with a name written on the front cover.

Date Posted: 10/27/2010 3:45 PM ET
Member Since: 10/30/2009
Posts: 962
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You are within the rules.  You are not posting them via the system.  You are not asking for more than 1 credit per book.  You are making the "requestor" aware of the condition before sending them out.  If the requestor doesn't want it based on your description, then they would not order from you.

Of course, these transactions are done unofficially (like in the bazaar).  These are done via PMs and the buddying of credits.  I'm not sure why this person thinks otherwise.  I wouldn't change anything.



Date Posted: 10/27/2010 5:24 PM ET
Member Since: 6/26/2006
Posts: 2,585
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A name written on the front cover does not make the book unpostable. 

The no writing rule applies to writing on the text pages.

Date Posted: 10/27/2010 6:05 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2009
Posts: 2,016
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Yengkong, thanks for clarifying.

Date Posted: 10/27/2010 6:16 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2009
Posts: 6,852
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Even if there is writing and highlighting on the pages, it is still postable.  It falls under text books.  You must contact the requestor, let them know of the underlining/highlighting, and only if you receive a response can you send the book.  Otherwise, it should be canceled.

What is the definition of a textbook?  

This will link to the related help docs.  Please choose the title above. 

Date Posted: 10/28/2010 12:33 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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Welcome to PBS Yenkong. 

The previous comments appear to have your question covered.  Unpostables used to be more of a gray area, until TPTB made some clarifications (earlier this year?).  Some older members still operate under the previous interpretation of the rules (is there a better way to state that whereby it would mean older memberships rather than older members?  crying)