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Topic: Oh, the joys of rude people

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Subject: Oh, the joys of rude people
Date Posted: 8/3/2009 3:39 AM ET
Member Since: 6/25/2008
Posts: 101
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Gah, just wanted to vent about this transaction.  I ordered a book that I knew was going to be a keeper, the 14th book in a series I'm collecting.  The book I received had a small dark stain on the corner of the pages, and two spots of water damage where it looked like someone had set it face down in some moisture or picked it up with wet hands.  Minor, but definitely noticeable.  Admittedly, I should have marked it RWAP, but still feel that compulsion to be nice.  Plus, they didn't have their profile set to public, so I couldn't tell if they were new enough not to be aware of the rules and I try to be lenient on new members.  Anyway, I marked it received and sent the member this PM:

"Thanks for the book, but I wanted to mention that there was a stain on the corner of the pages, and a couple spots of water damage. It's going to be a keeper for me, so I'm not worried about being able to repost it here, but you should know that those are both against the rules and someone could easily ask for their credit back because of it."

Not too mean, I hoped.  This was her response:

"Aware of the rules. feel it is in good enough condition or obviously I would not have sent it. You are more than welcome to send it back. Will give you a credit regardless and no need for you to order from me again."

Wowzer.  Okay.  Things like this make me wish there was a way to actually block a member so I don't run into her again.  Yikes.

(Oh and I have yet to receive her generous offer to give me a credit regardless.  Not exactly holding my breath on that.)

Date Posted: 8/3/2009 6:38 AM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Sorry that this happened to you.There was no need to be rude.  Sometimes it seems that the ones who are rude are the ones who know they did it wrong and just believe that a good defense is a rude offense. 

My position is that every time there is a reason to mark a book RWAP, it should be done.  It's the way PBS has of maintaining quality of the books in the system.   This doesn't mean you have to ask for the credit to be returned, but it is a duty ( by way of the guidelines ) to mark those that aren't in postable condition as RWAP.  Otherwise people won't belive that they will ever be called on it.  And you don't have to return the book unless the sender gives you a second credit to cover the postage expenses.

If she was "aware" of the rules, then if she inspected the book before sending it, she knows it didn't pass muster.  Please make it a better PBS by marking books that aren't postable RWAP.  Call it "Quality Control".


Date Posted: 8/3/2009 8:32 AM ET
Member Since: 3/4/2007
Posts: 4,582
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Please make PBS aware of this PM exchange.  Even though you chose not to mark it RWAP, they need to know about members who have complete disregard for the site rules. 

Date Posted: 8/3/2009 8:39 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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This is why markign books RWP is important.  To get people who feel that it's ok to knowingly post unpostable books off of PBS. 

Date Posted: 8/3/2009 9:53 AM ET
Member Since: 7/23/2006
Posts: 15,930
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Your pm was very nice, the other person didn't have any reason to be rude!  You didn't even ask her to send you the credit back!!

I've done the same thing if the other person might be new - just marked it received and sent an FYI pm, if they're new or might be new :) 

Date Posted: 8/3/2009 10:24 AM ET
Member Since: 1/4/2009
Posts: 97
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wow that is rude!  I second sending the PM exchange to PBS!

I also wish you could block someone after a bad exchange so that you don't ever have to deal with them again.

Date Posted: 8/3/2009 10:55 AM ET
Member Since: 3/11/2008
Posts: 928
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"Aware of the rules. feel it is in good enough condition or obviously I would not have sent it. You are more than welcome to send it back. Will give you a credit regardless and no need for you to order from me again."

Argh. Telling you not to order from them again is 1) silly because we have no control over that in FIFO, and 2) makes it sound like she/he plans to continue sending books that don't meet condition guidelines. Hopefully that's not the case.

Date Posted: 8/3/2009 11:10 AM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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I would politely thank her for the offer of the credit refund, tell her that you order the majority of your books FIFO, which doesn't allow you the luxury of choosing who not to order your books from, but you'll check after accepting from now on & if an order has gone to her, you'll let her know so she can cancel, and then paste the overall condition rule from the help docs into the PM (No stains, No damage at all from water or other liquid).

Date Posted: 8/3/2009 11:24 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 10,246
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I might be the exception here, but I don't think that the senders response was rude. True, it doesn't have a freindly tone, but it is not rude, just business-like. 

And, she offered to give you a credit back, even though you didn't request it. Um, how is that something you should report to PBS as being a bad member?

She doesn't admit that the book doesn't follow the rules either, in the PM. And, whether it did or not, she offered you your credit back.

I would send her back a PM thanking her for offering you a credit and asking her to credit you.

Date Posted: 8/3/2009 11:41 AM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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Yeah, I agree with Sara.  It sounds brusque, but not overtly rude.  Maybe a little defensive in the last sentence, which is a common knee-jerk reaction.  I'm sure most people who say that know that you don't know who you're ordering from in FIFO, but "don't order from me again" is a common response nonetheless:P  And just to reiterate what has already been said, always mark unpostables RWAP.  No sense in risking someone who might have a total disregard for condition guidelines slipping through the cracks because you're unsure if that's what they are.  Trust tptb to do their job & sort that out.

Last Edited on: 8/3/09 11:42 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/3/2009 11:49 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,226
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I don't see a reportable offense either. She was blunt, but not rude IMO. She sent a book she thought met conditions (by what I read). I would probably wonder why someone marks a book as fine when they accept it, and them PMs me with issues. If the book wasn't postable, then it should be marked RWP and dealt with through that channel.

Date Posted: 8/3/2009 12:12 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,805
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I don't see what was rude about it.  Certainly not friendly, but business like.  What was she supposed to say?

This is an exchange I have after getting my very first RWAP.

From me:

Thank you for wrapping the books so well. I hate to tell you but the book "The Covenant" has stains on the edges and inside the back cover and a few pages. While I certainly can read it this way, I can not repost it and get a credit for it. I am not asking for my credit returned but I am marking it RWAP. This is the first time in two years that I've marked RWAP and am so sorry to have to do so now.

From the Sender:

I am so sorry for the strain. I never noticed them and I have no idea what a RWAP is, but I am glad that the strain will not not stop you from reading this book. It is indeed a good series.

At this point I did stop and think about if I wanted to just let this go or have more dialog with this sender.  I didn't find the PM rude, but it certainly wasn't friendly.

From Me:

RWAP is Recieved With A Problem. It is the way to mark the books that don't meet the Paperback Swap guidelines. I have marked this problem resolved, so there should be no problem for you.

Overall Condition:
No damage at all from water or other liquid
Not soiled
No stains (exception for cookbooks--see below)
No mold
no highlighting, underlining or writing on text pages (exception for textbooks --see below)

If you as the requestor marked a book received with a problem, you can now provide follow-up on the situation from your Transaction Archive.
This will allow us to screen more effectively for those accounts that are sending problem books and NOT resolving the problems, and also allow us to avoid excessively penalizing senders who might make a mistake, but who do resolve the problem.
Senders who send problem books and do not resolve the problem will have their accounts double-marked "behind the scenes"; if a pattern of this emerges on a sender's account, it will jeopardize membership .

From Sender:

Thank you so much for your response. Yes, after I sent you this email. I checked it out and discovered what it was all about. I so appreciate you taking the time to let me know. This has been a pleasant learning experience. I can assure you that I will be more mindful of this situation in the future. Thanks for marking it resolved. I would be more than happy to refund a credit it you think I should.

I could have just dismissed the sender as someone who didn't care.  She could have dismissed me as someone who was picky.  Instead we both listened and didn't "assume" what the other person was doing.

I think we certainly need to mark every RWAP.   I think it's fine to vent about your frustration when you get those books.  I do think that we need to remember that we are all human and on the computer, somethings sound rude when we mean to be businesslike.

Date Posted: 8/3/2009 1:12 PM ET
Member Since: 2/19/2009
Posts: 692
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What is rude is as subjective as many RC's wanting a book in very good condition. Generally the farther north/northeast you go the more "straight forward" the communication. The farther south, the more "genteel" the communication. I have no idea where everyone is located in this transaction and responses here so far, just making a point that people interpret polite and rude differently.

With that said, I lived in MI for 20+ years and now in TX for 20+ years. I consider the sender's response as definitely not professional, and very much leaning toward rude. I would be offended to receive such a reply.

Cozette, in your example of communication exchange, it was much friendlier with an outright apology (the 1st PM). I would be pleased to receive that communication.

Back to the OP, I would have marked it RWAP to ensure the integrity of swapping on PBS. I'm not sure if the sender's reply is rude enough to report to TPTB. It is not horribly rude, just somewhat, IMHO.



Last Edited on: 8/3/09 1:16 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/3/2009 2:08 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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If Christina's theory about location and environment is correct, then I would have to plead that living all my life in TX (and 14 years in VA) might make me think it was a rude response.  I can certainly see where someone who doesn't have time to waste would respond in the manner that the OP received.  It could have been handled better ways on both sides, but as said using a computer to communicate frequently makes humans sound less human.  For that I apologize in my original statement about rude responses.  But still the need to mark every RWAP as such is necessary - new member or not.


Date Posted: 8/3/2009 4:41 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
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I'm sorry you're having a negative experience.  Per the Help Center:

"If a member (sender or requestor) is rude or abusive during a PM exchange about a book, we can be notified.  We will Review the PM exchange and take action commensurate to the offense."

Issues about "rudeness is in the eye of the beholder" aside, if you feel it was rude (and it seems that you do), please use the "Contact Us" link to let the PBS folks know.



Date Posted: 8/3/2009 4:50 PM ET
Member Since: 12/22/2008
Posts: 533
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PBS condition guidelines are quite clear and specific.  If a book does not meet standard it is incumbent upon the receiver to mark it RWAP.  It is not a matter of being "nice."  It is a matter of following site guidelines and doing our part to help maintain the standards of the club.

Geri (geejay) -
Date Posted: 8/3/2009 5:18 PM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2008
Posts: 9,094
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Yes Valerie, I agree.

"Aware of the rules. feel it is in good enough condition or obviously I would not have sent it. You are more than welcome to send it back. Will give you a credit regardless and no need for you to order from me again."

Okay, some of you feel that wasn't rude -  I thought it was snarky.

Aware of the rules, feel it's good enough or I wouldn't have sent it!!!  Feel it's good enough not with stains according to PBS standards.

Will give you a credit regardless - so where's the credit?

What makes you think I want to order from you again??? - I sure wouldn't want to order from this person.  Maybe we should petition PBS to allow us to block nasty senders.

Date Posted: 8/3/2009 10:02 PM ET
Member Since: 6/25/2008
Posts: 101
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OP here...I can certainly say that this is a lesson to me to mark things RWAP and sort it out from that point.  I don't think this is worth reporting to TPTB, but still wish for a way to block members...

Christina S.: Ha, well I live in Texas, and the sender is from the Northeast, so that might fit your theory perfectly.

Date Posted: 8/3/2009 11:17 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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the only thing you can promise the sender is that you won't personally order from his/her shelf.  FIFO is out of your control.  And I have had a couple of repeat FIFO orders for other books going to the same person.