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Topic: Do some people not get the concept of Liquid Damage?

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Subject: Do some people not get the concept of Liquid Damage?
Date Posted: 7/4/2014 9:20 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2010
Posts: 1,540
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I send out really nice books.  Last 3 I got were not too good.......one book I opened it and pages fell out.  Then I got this one.  The sender pitched a fit saying I was wrong to not be happy. 

The book was warped and had a ton of staining (coffee?) and liquid damage:  photo here

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There is just no way I could send this book out to another club member.

It really is difficult sometimes to explain what makes a books swappable, but I would not send this one out again, as I feel quite sure my swap partner would be *disappointed* to receive it.

I guess that's one of the TESTS for me, to put myself in another person's shoes.  :)

I did get my credit back but I could tell it was grudgingly.......

 

 

 



Last Edited on: 7/4/14 9:25 PM ET - Total times edited: 5
Date Posted: 7/5/2014 10:14 AM ET
Member Since: 4/28/2009
Posts: 9,657
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I'm so happy you got your credit back. Often that type of trade is one where the sender argues it wasn't like that when they mailed it.  

Date Posted: 7/5/2014 3:09 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2010
Posts: 1,540
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Well, a little bit of waviness would not have been a deal breaker for me,

 

but as you can see, the pages have quite a bit of yellow and brown STAIN on them.   That was clearly something like coffee or tea spilled on the book, NOT just a little condensation or humidity.  

Date Posted: 7/5/2014 5:24 PM ET
Member Since: 12/14/2007
Posts: 83
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I don't have a lot of credits, so when I get something that I am not able to repost, it's really irritating. 

Date Posted: 7/6/2014 10:11 PM ET
Member Since: 6/15/2009
Posts: 151
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Your comfort level of what you would send out to another person isn't always the best indicator of what is and isn't post-able.

Waves and stains are against PBS criteria for swapability, and that's really what you should be going by.

I don't remember exactly what the thread was about, but there was a member a few weeks back who posted questions about a book they personally didn't feel comfortable swapping, and it turned out it did meet PBS criteria and the sender was right for not wanting to give the credit back.

In this case, you were right, but you really shouldn't go with your gut feeling when asking for a credit back.

Date Posted: 7/7/2014 8:48 PM ET
Member Since: 11/25/2007
Posts: 133
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I just had a request declined because it "didn't meet my RC" and the person then told me it had water damage. I realized it wasn't postable at all, but I have no idea what to do about it.

Date Posted: 7/8/2014 2:17 PM ET
Member Since: 10/13/2010
Posts: 4,315
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It seems like when I receive a book that is unpostable, the main reason is due to water damage.  I am not sure if it's because people don't realize what pages look like when they are water damaged (if it's not obvious) or that they just overlook it, hoping that the receiver will overlook it.

If a page is just a little wavy, I sometimes do overlook it, but I know I can't repost it so it does bug me a little.

Date Posted: 7/10/2014 6:38 PM ET
Member Since: 10/29/2005
Posts: 843
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Yeah, this has been a problem for me for the last few yrs. now. First coupla yrs after the site started, seems like members were better about following the rules; now it seems like about 1 out of every 3 (or fewer) bks I get has liquid damage so that I don't feel right about reswapping it. (In a thread about this a few yrs ago, another member actually asked me what my problem was, what in the world was I doing wanting to re-swap books anyway, this member kept all theirs.  Uh, becuz I don't want to drown in books?) And as was said already, you ask for your credit back, it's given grudgingly.  So, since the rules so clearly state "no liquid damage AT ALL", I thought I'd message the site's Librarian & ask if many others were having the same prob, if so did the site intend to do anything about it, maybe re-emphasizing the rules about liq. damage on the homepage, etc.  But the response back I got was along the lines of "well yes, those are in fact the rules but you know, some of you members can be too finickey."  But it's not just this site;  it's a common problem with a lot of sites, espec. after they get so big: you kind of get that corporate attitude of "well yes, we'd like all of you to follow the rules all the time but you know, that's really hard to enforce, people are gonna do what they're gonna do, so we'll be doing good if even just some of you follow the rules."  And you know that ain't ever gonna change, which is too bad becuz the ebook thing is having enuff of an impact already on the site.  Oh well; such is life.

Date Posted: 7/10/2014 7:45 PM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2006
Posts: 34,964
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<<I am not sure if it's because people don't realize what pages look like when they are water damaged (if it's not obvious) or that they just overlook it, hoping that the receiver will overlook it.>>

I think there are many members who don't bother to read what can be posted.  As long as it is readable, they think it's fine.  I have worked as a Tour Guide with many members who were upset because their book was RWAP and had no idea they were not suppose to send books with liquid damage or torn pages or covers falling off.  Yes, I do think many members ignore the posting guidelines, but I also think there are many members who have no idea they even exist.

Which is why I always encourage members to RWAP when needed.  Even if the credit isn't returned, at least the RWAP will get their attention and possibly help when they think about sending unpostable books in the future.

Date Posted: 7/10/2014 8:05 PM ET
Member Since: 10/29/2005
Posts: 843
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 Good suggestion, Hunter. (I kinda wonder why the site admin. didn't respond along those lines instead of the warning against being "too finicky". Oh well, that's it goes most of the time.)

Date Posted: 7/29/2014 12:06 PM ET
Member Since: 11/28/2009
Posts: 1,605
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Thank you for your info Hunter, I just received a book with wavy pages & yellow liquid stains into the writing of 20 or so pages.  There are yellow dribbles on the outside edges of some of the pages.  Hate to RWAP, but did it because of what you wrote.  

Sure appears to have been visited by a mouse to me.

PS:  I have received soooo many books in great condition that I suppose I was due....

Date Posted: 7/29/2014 5:56 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,336
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I can't picture the Admin Team saying, "some of you members can be too finicky."  Was that your interpretation of what they said?

Date Posted: 7/29/2014 7:45 PM ET
Member Since: 10/29/2005
Posts: 843
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Was "finicky" my "interpretation" of what Admin said?  Well, you know I didn't keep the email from them but I distinctly remember them using the phrase "too finicky" and referring to "some members sometimes being (too finicky)", so I guess you could call that an "interpretation" if you want...
 

Date Posted: 7/29/2014 8:17 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,336
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Thanks

Date Posted: 8/1/2014 6:18 PM ET
Member Since: 7/11/2009
Posts: 28
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A little while back I received a book with some obvious liquid damage. An area on the cover about the size of my palm was wavy, wrinkled and "smudged" - looked like they rubbed it while it was still wet. The waviness affected about 50 pages. I marked it RWAP. When I explained what was wrong I stated that it was still readable but unpostable. The sender refunded my credit and apologized. She said she thought it was postable because she had received it in a swap. I can remember thinking something similar when I first started here. In the beginning I received a couple of books that seemed questionable, but I thought they were ok since someone else had sent them to me. I know better now. I think Hunter is right. Many don't even read the requirements and some think that if they receive it thru a swap it is automatically repostable.

Date Posted: 8/7/2014 8:26 PM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
Posts: 5,716
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I have a no-water damage condition and just received a hardcover where two entire chapter have been soaked. I marked it RWP and the sender has basically accused me of trying to scam her for a free book. Honestly, what it is about not sending water-damaged books that people don't get? I guess if they won't refund my credit I will mark it as "problem not resolved."

Date Posted: 8/8/2014 1:06 AM ET
Member Since: 10/29/2005
Posts: 843
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Some people just don't understand; but unfortunately I think at least some people are doing it purposely, they know darn well the book is not swappable but don't care; if they can get a credit out of the receiver for an unswappable book, they figure they've "won".  Sad but true, I'm afraid.

Subject: Photos of damage
Date Posted: 8/9/2014 6:25 PM ET
Member Since: 4/20/2006
Posts: 5,716
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http://tinypic.com/m/idsi84/2

I am so technology challenged...I give up!



Last Edited on: 8/9/14 6:42 PM ET - Total times edited: 4
Date Posted: 8/29/2014 10:59 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2009
Posts: 4,581
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I also have a rc about books being sent to me not having any liquid damage.  This month I got 2 books that had liquid damage after not getting one in years.  I got a 50 shades of grey book I ordered for a cousin that had a bad case of water damage, like someone read it in the tub.  This book came packaged tighter than fort knox too in plastic wrapping with so much tape it took me forever to open.  So when I pm'd the sender she was positive it wasn't damaged and wanted to know if it could have gotten damaged in the mail.  Well no there were no scratches in the plastic and there was so much tape it was just not possible.  I know because I really inspected this for even one loose scrape hole or spot were tape was missing that I could jam my scissors into just to get the book out!  I ended up having to use an excto knife to get the damned book out of that packaging.   I think they just wanted me to mark it damaged by the mail so that it wouldn't be their fault.  Then the next week I received a hard cover book that had coffee damage on the outside DJ and inside on the first few chapters.  So when I pm'd the requestor they told me well it did have some on the DJ but to take that off because it was just the DJ, and it might have had a small spot on the first page but that wasn't on any of the pages with writing so it was ok.  Well I also have a RC that says I require DJ's, my bad!  And the small coffee stain on the first page was the size of an orange and had soaked down to the first few chapters.  Its crazy though how some people justify what they send.  These two were the first two I'd received since I put up an RC for liquid damage.

Truthfully there is nothing I hate more than getting a book with liquid damage.  Though the one I got that had chocolate stuck in the pages was pretty bad, but that was totally an accident I believe.  It smelled so god awful by the time it had gotten here, apparently chocolate when mixed with high temperatures does melt and spoil!  That lady really did apologize after she saw the pictures and swore she would check out every one of her kids books that got shipped out from then on.  It looked fine though from the outside but oh god did it smell I shoved it right into the trash after taking pictures of it!      

Date Posted: 8/30/2014 11:06 AM ET
Member Since: 5/25/2010
Posts: 262
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About being told that we're too finicky—

Once I ordered a couple of textbooks. They came in horrible condition. They were written in, as I've come to expect with textbooks (whether I'm contacted or not)—but they were actually in pieces. One of the books was in three separate sections, and about twenty pages were sent as separate sheets, if I recall correctly. (I don't seem to have access to the messages any more.)

I RWAPped. The sender was angry, because after all these books had cost over $100 apiece originally, so what right did I have to complain?

I don't remember precisely why I felt the need to report these guys—I guess because they admitted to sending a book that was in separate pieces. But I did. The PBS response indicated that yes, the books were in separate pieces, but after all, the sender had a good point about the textbooks being so valuable.

I was taken aback. I thought the original cost was irrelevant. I had chosen to order an older edition from PBS not as a substitute for ordering a brand-new textbook for $120, but as a substitute for ordering an older edition for $8 or $15 or something from other book-selling sites. I was pretty disappointed in the whole thing.

I don't think PBS takes the rules nearly as seriously as we do here in the forum.