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Topic: Can you post word seach, puzzle, crossword books, sticker, etc.?

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Subject: Can you post word seach, puzzle, crossword books, sticker, etc.?
Date Posted: 3/13/2010 7:06 PM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2009
Posts: 9,984
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If the answer is No.  What do you do if you see something like that on someones shelf?



Last Edited on: 3/13/10 7:07 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/13/2010 7:17 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,690
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The Help Center "Browse Help Docs" is a great location to find what can and can't be posted.

PBS is for the exchange of used books across all topics of interest. paperback, hardcover and audio books in good condition are acceptable here. 

Guidelines below


Allowed:

  • Paperback books
  • Hardcover books (dust jackets not required)
  • Audio books (must be originals, not burned copies)
  • Ex-library books
  • Books with accompanying media
  • Textbooks/Workbooks
  • Foreign-language books (if in a language other than English, the language needs to be specified in the book description)
  • Playaways (these are considered audiobooks)

 


Not allowed:

  • Anything that is not a book (this includes calendars, coloring books, blank journals)
  • Anything that contains advertising
  • Advance Reader Copies* (also known as ARC s, Review Copies or Uncorrected Proofs--these are not the final versions of books)
  • CD-ROM books/e-books (books that must be read on a computer)
  • Burned copies of audio books
  • Xerox or otherwise unoriginal copies of books
  • Unbound pages
  • leaflets or pamphlets or booklets** without ISBNs (other members complain at spending a credit for these)
  • Brochures/Promotional "first chapters" of books - these are not complete books, even if they have an ISBN
  • Books that require supplementary non-media materials (non-media materials cannot be sent by MediaMail)
  • Pornography (sex manuals and erotica are allowed, hardcore pornography is not allowed)
  • Supplementary media alone (without the book they originally accompanied)

*ARCs may be swapped "unofficially" in the Book Bazaar Discussion Forums.  They may not be Posted to a PBS Bookshelf.

**A leaflet/pamphlet is an item with fewer than 20 pages; a booklet is an item with between 20 and 50 pages that is not a children's book. Children's books often have less than 50 pages and are not considered booklets just because of their short pagelength.

Please note: if you Post an inappropriate item for swapping, it may be removed from the database as an automatic action without notice; if it has been requested from you before that happens, you will not get credit for sending it.



Last Edited on: 3/13/10 7:20 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/13/2010 7:19 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,690
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There is a thread at the top of this discussion board that states Report Suspicious Items Here
 this is where you would let someone know if  you feel the need to about whatever item you see posted.

Date Posted: 3/13/2010 7:19 PM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
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You can either tag these items as not postable or you can add a link (not to the shelf, but to the item page) to the thread titled "Report Suspicious Items Here" topic (in red) at the top of this forum.

Date Posted: 3/13/2010 11:39 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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Not postable, report them. 

Date Posted: 3/14/2010 9:12 AM ET
Member Since: 3/13/2009
Posts: 202
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Yes, You can. Not magazines but there are puzzle softcover books that have ISBN numbers. Not the magazines.

One of the best books I ever got here was a Cryptic crossword book. They are very hard to find and usually cost 9 or 10 dollars. I was very happy to use one of my credits. It was brand new and gave me several months of pleasure. In fact you will see Volumes 2 and 3 on my wish list.

Again, I am not talking about magazines but large size paperbacks full of puzzles. I don't see any rules violation.

Date Posted: 3/14/2010 10:52 AM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2009
Posts: 9,984
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so your saying puzzle books, activity books, word search, sudoki, type that have ISBN#'s are postable?

Date Posted: 3/14/2010 11:58 AM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,690
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No, they are not postable...many things have an ISBN but, that does not make them postable.

Date Posted: 3/14/2010 1:56 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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No, ISBN is not an indicator of postability.  Coloring books, address books, photo albums, and blank books/journals are not considered media for purposes of Media Mail and do not meet PBS postablility guidelines.  Puzzles bound together into book form fall into the same USPS catagory...not media, and therefore not PBS postable. 

ETA - Although these items do occassionally move through the PBS system (the database can't weed them all out), they violate membership agreement rules.



Last Edited on: 3/14/10 1:59 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/14/2010 6:36 PM ET
Member Since: 3/13/2009
Posts: 202
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I still disagree. The puzzle books we are talking about ARE paperback books.  At least the ones I am talking about. They are bound. They have the hard paper or cardboard cover found on ALL paperback books. They have NO advertising, unlike puzzle magazines.

They are the same as any other paperbacks. We are only quibbling about the unusual content. But you surely would not reject an Art book because " all it has is pictures. There are no words like in a real book."  You would surely not reject a mathematical Book of Tables because "there is no text".  I recently sent out a book of Rairoading, It was all pictures and almost no text. Are you saying I should not have.

To repeat these ARE paperback books in every respect. I am NOT talking about the magazines found in the grocery stores which are obviously not allowed if for no other reason than they always contain a bunch of ads.

Date Posted: 3/14/2010 7:59 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,194
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Thomas -as you can see from the definition of media mail below from the USPS - all of the other items you mentioned meet the definition, but puzzles do not as they are not "reading material" and don't meet any of the other qualifications of eductional or scholarly materials like mathematical and art books. 

Just because something is "bound" doesn't make it a book. I have never seen a hard cover bound puzzle book and I think you may be the only one talking about something like that, most are the paper covers they are in traditionally, and those to me are not "bound".  That a mute point because a puzzle book does not meet any of the Media Mail standards.

Content Standards

Only these items may be mailed at the Media Mail prices:

a. Books, including books issued to supplement other books, of at least eight printed pages, consisting wholly of reading matter or scholarly bibliography, or reading matter with incidental blank spaces for notations and containing no advertising matter other than incidental announcements of books. Advertising includes paid advertising and the publishers' own advertising in display, classified, or editorial style.

b. 16-millimeter or narrower width films, which must be positive prints in final form for viewing, and catalogs of such films of 24 pages or more (at least 22 of which are printed). Films and film catalogs sent to or from commercial theaters do not qualify for the Media Mail price.

c. Printed music, whether in bound or sheet form.

d. Printed objective test materials and their accessories used by or on behalf of educational institutions to test ability, aptitude, achievement, interests, and other mental and personal qualities with or without answers, test scores, or identifying information recorded thereon in writing or by mark.

e. Sound recordings, including incidental announcements of recordings and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such recordings. Video recordings and player piano rolls are classified as sound recordings.

f. Playscripts and manuscripts for books, periodicals, and music.

g. Printed educational reference charts designed to instruct or train individuals for improving or developing their capabilities. Each chart must be a single printed sheet of information designed for educational reference. The information on the chart, which may be printed on one or both sides of the sheet, must be conveyed primarily by graphs, diagrams, tables, or other nonnarrative matter. An educational reference chart is normally but not necessarily devoted to one subject. A chart on which the information is conveyed primarily by textual matter in a narrative form does not qualify as a printed educational reference chart for mailing at the Media Mail prices even if it includes graphs, diagrams, or tables. Examples of qualifying charts include maps produced primarily for educational reference, tables of mathematical or scientific equations, noun declensions or verb conjugations used in the study of languages, periodic table of elements, botanical or zoological tables, and other tables used in the study of science.

h. Loose-leaf pages and their binders consisting of medical information for distribution to doctors, hospitals, medical schools, and medical students.

i. Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media.

Date Posted: 3/14/2010 8:31 PM ET
Member Since: 3/13/2009
Posts: 202
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I did not say they were bound like hardbacks. I said they have the same cover as all other paperbacks.

PBS does not limit posted books to follow the rules for " media mail". We have sent quite a few books as first class.

By the rules listed above , I would say that Cookbooks are not allowed. Or books like " Doonesbury" or " Calvin and Hobbes". Or Atlasses. Or price guides to old bottles and Teddy Brars.

But puzzle books fit just nicely under "reading matter with incidental blank spaces for notations."

And if you use PBS book browser on the front page you will find , not only cookbooks and Atlasses, but ,under Entertainment, puzzle books right down to crosswords and Soduku.

In fact, while checking this out I just ordered " Hooked on Cryptics", a crossword puzzle BOOK.



Last Edited on: 3/14/10 8:35 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/14/2010 8:39 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,194
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I have completely changed my stance on puzzle books after finding them in the Market. I can see a big can of RWAPs being opened that they will get to deal with by allowing books meant to be written in be posted into the system without making clarification that they should follow the textbook/workbook rules and them finding a distinct line between coloring and puzzle books. I also see big issues in the mailing of them, especially if they go through the wonderful state of Wisconsin who inspects everything Media Mail. Fun times coming in LH with this.

 

BTW Thomas - just because its posted here doesn't mean its postable here. Members often ignore the rules and do whatever they want to. If something has an ISBN it can be posted into the database. Doesn't mean its should be.



Last Edited on: 3/14/10 8:50 PM ET - Total times edited: 3
Date Posted: 3/14/2010 9:30 PM ET
Member Since: 6/25/2007
Posts: 5,637
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I have completely changed my stance on puzzle books after finding them in the Market

I've noticed the market also sells coloring books. I wonder if those are still shipped media mail?



Last Edited on: 3/14/10 9:32 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/14/2010 9:56 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,690
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sent in to TPTB to get a definitive answer

Date Posted: 3/14/2010 10:12 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Maybe a category for these puzzle books that don't meet Media Mail rules could be listed in a place alone and always sent First Class.  I don't know if this is possible since it would be difficult to enforce.  But if only books that PBS will allow are those that meet the media definition by USPS, then I doubt anything can be done.

Maybe they can't be posted in FIFO, but maybe in a signature line or profile??

Ruth

Date Posted: 3/14/2010 10:19 PM ET
Member Since: 5/15/2005
Posts: 1,328
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Interesting topic. I'm curious as to what pbs says about these. I've considered listing a thick puzzle book I received from harlequin as a Christmas gift for being on their research panel but hadn't listed it yet, not because I thought it unpostable, but because I considered giving it to my nephew who enjoys math. The link is:

http://www.paperbackswap.com/book/details/9780373892068-The+Total+Brain+Workout

If these are unpostable, what about the I Spy books?  I'd consider them along the lines of puzzle books as well. And they do come in both paperback and hardcover.

Date Posted: 3/15/2010 5:17 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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In the interest of clarification Thomas, why don't you take a puzzle book to your post office and ask?  Then you could post their answer. 

I don't remember all the details, but at various time the local clerks have given me examples of items that are not Media Mail.  Recorded CD & DVDs are yes, blanks of the same are not.  There's more, but it's late and my brain is fuzzy.

Date Posted: 3/15/2010 8:04 AM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2009
Posts: 9,984
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Still not sure can I or can't I post activity books, books with stickers?

Date Posted: 3/15/2010 8:23 AM ET
Member Since: 8/27/2007
Posts: 3,326
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In the interest of clarification Thomas, why don't you take a puzzle book to your post office and ask?  Then you could post their answer.

 

wow. Based on some of the stories in the forums I've read about postal clerks who clearly don't know even the most basic rules about their job, I'd say that was maybe not the best route to go....

Date Posted: 3/15/2010 9:08 AM ET
Member Since: 3/13/2009
Posts: 202
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That would be somewhat irrelevent as "media mail" is not a criteria for PBS.  That is  you can post and request items that do not meet the requirement of " Media Mail."

Anyway, I think that most postal clerks would give an okay to almost any book that you'd shpw them, including puzzle books, cookbooks and high school yearbooks, some of which contain advertising.

Date Posted: 3/15/2010 9:54 AM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
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That would be somewhat irrelevent as "media mail" is not a criteria for PBS.  That is  you can post and request items that do not meet the requirement of " Media Mail."

I beg to differe on that point, Thomas.  I can't think of anything allowable that isn't able to be shipped via Media Mail.  If you look at the ins and outs of what can and can't be posted (in the Help Doc titled What can be swapped here) not being able to use Media Mail is mentioned repeatedly as the reason why certain items aren't allowed. 

Date Posted: 3/15/2010 11:12 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,194
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That would be somewhat irrelevent as "media mail" is not a criteria for PBS.  That is  you can post and request items that do not meet the requirement of " Media Mail."

What you CAN do and what you are SUPPOSED TO do are not the same thing. If it has an ISBN, PBS cannot stop it from being posted even though posting many things with ISBNs is against the TofU the member agrees to. PBS uses the Media Mail definition of "a book" so yes, if it doesn't meet the Media Mail definition, then it is not postable into the system here. I believe there is only one exception to the that in the Help Center having to do with non-media supplemental accompanying material.

 

Janice - instead of asking in the forums where all you will get is opinions (I don't believe any TGs have ever gotten a definitive answer on this) I would recommend sending in Feedback through the Contact Us link in the lower right under Company. Their opinion is the only one that really matters. If you get an answer from them, please post so that everyone will get to see what their answer is.



Last Edited on: 3/15/10 11:14 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 3/15/2010 1:20 PM ET
Member Since: 5/18/2007
Posts: 13,195
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Janice, the forums are going to contain numerous opinions and as you can see no one can agree. If you want a definitive answer then you need to contact TPTB (contact us button) and they will tell you straight up what is and is not OK. 

Date Posted: 3/15/2010 5:44 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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True (other) Denise.  My local USPS clerks are very knowledgable and I sometimes forget the sheer number of complaints posted here regarding inadequately trained staff *sigh*

Sticker books, I'm thinking no (for same reasons as color books).  But if anyone has a definative answer I'd be interested to hear it.

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