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Topic: Question about marking books RWAP

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Subject: Question about marking books RWAP
Date Posted: 8/8/2008 3:43 PM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
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Lately I've been getting hit every few books with one that should never have been posted.  I don't know the exact number, but off the top of my head I can think of four over the past few months.  I had a book that was stained through the dust jacket, cover, and pages.  I got one that looked like it had been completely submerged.  I had one with underlining throughout the book, and I had one that was listed as a paperback and came in as a hardcover.  Today I caught wind of L's luck I guess, because I got a book with a 2 inch stain through 2/3 of the book, right at the edge where my thumb goes while flipping the pages.  It's not postable, and considering I'm a little bit nuts for keeping my hands clean, I'm not sure I can bring myself to even read it.  Hopefully the "luck" ends there, because I don't feel like going through the hassle that usually comes from these situations.  I'm beginning to worry, though, because now that we have the Resolution button I can't see how many problem swaps I've had.  I have a digital camera and can email pictures to TPTB if need be;  I mean to say, it's not like I'm just trying to stretch my credits.  But is there a point when too many people sending bad books will wind up biting the Requester in the end??  Am I really doing the right thing by following the rules?  I didn't even ask for the credit back (yet) because I'm honestly wondering exactly how is it that they can tell the difference between someone getting bad books and someone just saying they are.

Update:  After several attempts I cannot seem to get it through to this individual that the Rules are real and we are supposed to follow them.  I can't explain why I shouldn't pay twice for my credit by mailing him the book just to get the refund, I can't explain why that means he should follow what is stated plainly in the Help Center and provide postage.  I can't explain that the book isn't simply unacceptable to ME, but that it's not postable according to the rules, which apply to everyone.  I don't even care about the credit, I just wanted to reach an understanding...I sent PBS a copy of the conversation, let them try it for a few hours.

Last Edited on: 8/9/08 1:56 AM ET - Total times edited: 5
Date Posted: 8/8/2008 3:46 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2007
Posts: 881
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I'm sorry about your run of bad luck :(

Date Posted: 8/8/2008 3:50 PM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
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I don't mind the bad luck, so long as it doesn't come back to bite ME in the rear because of a handful of people who either don't know or don't care about the posting guidelines.  I've always been a stickler for rules, and personally can't imagine how I could be wrong for pointing them out, but I know it theoretically can and so I worry.

Date Posted: 8/8/2008 3:53 PM ET
Member Since: 6/25/2007
Posts: 5,637
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When I first became a member I had a string of unpostable books sent to me in a very short time (like 5 in 2 weeks or something like that) that I marked appropriately. In that same time there were also 2 lost books. As far as I know, it has never affected me negatively.

Last Edited on: 8/8/08 3:55 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/8/2008 4:09 PM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
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Somehow I knew I was going to get the "mail the book back to me" message...now it's up to me to explain the postage credit on top of the refunded credit, and I'm waiting for the "you're just trying to get credits" even though it's the freaking RULES.  This kinda stuff makes me wanna eat babies...

Date Posted: 8/8/2008 4:14 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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I think they look at your overall history. So if you mark every other book as RWP they might send you a polite message to consider whether all these books are really RWP. But I would think a few in a short period would not cause trouble. 

Date Posted: 8/8/2008 4:47 PM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
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I explained the rules regarding returning damaged books and haven't gotten a response.  I want to mark it unresolved, but I don't want to go knocking on his PM door with a message asking if "negotiations are finished", and I also don't want to wait a week to find out that he isn't going to bother responding.  Bwargh.  Why can't it ever be easy? 

Date Posted: 8/8/2008 5:13 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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This time of year just seems bad for damaged books. Maybe a lot of new people who haven't really read/understood the rules have joined after the new publicity.

I don't know, but I seem to have more lost than usual this time of year, more books 'accepted' that then just time out without being mailed, and yesterday, another liquid damaged book arrived, in a pristine package.

So now I get to wait on the response to asking for my credit back as well. I really hate waiting for it to hit the fan. Again.

Why can't it ever be easy?

I don't know. Lol. But it does seem to come in spurts, doesn't it?

Date Posted: 8/8/2008 5:48 PM ET
Member Since: 12/23/2005
Posts: 1,159
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Yes it does come in spurts. First I receive a book with the 1st 54 pages missing, sender says, "sorry you received a damaged book." After mailing pictures and letting them know I would mark it as not resolved in so many days, I never received another response or my credit back. This was a member since 2006.  

Yesterday I received a book listed under the wrong ISBN#. The book turned out to be an older edition plus the member listed it under a hardcover as well. The book is a paperback so the member didn't even get the binding correct? I wrote and said I would overlook this one since they were a newer member. I know I probably should have marked it received as a problem, but I feel like James does. I'm afraid if I mark too many as a problem, it will count against me. Of course I didn't get any response from this member either.

Subject: James L
Date Posted: 8/8/2008 6:20 PM ET
Member Since: 3/10/2008
Posts: 34
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Any books you receive and they do not meet PBS condition,  Do not receive as normal. Use the Problem with book button. Then explain the problem. What you write,  PBS Staff and the sender both will be notified as soon as you hit the send button.

Any person that ships a book that is against PBS conditions will be flag as such. Goes against them not you. But as long as you and any other member do nothing,  then this will keep going because they are getting away with it.

Always state if there is a problem with books received, and if the sender wants their book back they either pay you for shipping or they give you another credit.


Last Edited on: 8/8/08 6:25 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/8/2008 6:22 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2007
Posts: 881
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I am so bad. I need to remember to verify if I got the correct version. This is me when I open a package:

"Is this a copy of a book I requested? Yup. One piece? Sweet. Marked received"


I should police my received books better.

Last Edited on: 8/8/08 6:23 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 8/8/2008 9:10 PM ET
Member Since: 7/16/2005
Posts: 80
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Personally, if I receive a book that say is a wishlisted book and maybe has a few pages near the back or whatever that look like it got splashed, I will read the book and then BookCross it or send it to GoodWill or something. Not saying this is what you should do.....but for me, I have WAY too many books anyway....so getting rid of one and not having a credit in return (for reposting) is not a huge deal for me.  

I would understand if the book is unreadable or just plain nasty...and everyone has their degree of what is acceptable to them and how much of a hassle it really is to argue your credit back. I also understand that there are posting guideline rules.....but I would mark RWAP.....let them know it was not postable and then let it go.

Although, your situation is different as you keep getting them again and again.

For every crappy book I have received there is one that will come in pristine, almost brand new .out of the bookstore. like new condition.....so  I try not to complain too much :-)


Good luck and hope you can rectify the situation soon.

L. G. (L)
Date Posted: 8/9/2008 12:20 AM ET
Member Since: 9/5/2005
Posts: 12,412
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James, take photos if you can.  It's the only way you can prove the damage.  I have had a number of them over my years here - I don't know how many, but too many.  I have never been questioned.

BTW: I don't want that "luck" back.  You can give it to someone else. ;)


Last Edited on: 8/9/08 12:21 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/9/2008 1:53 AM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
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I took photos...I can only email them if needed, though, I don't belong to picture posting sites.  It's good to know you've had no problems with sticking to the rules, L...it's encouraging. 

Date Posted: 8/9/2008 6:03 AM ET
Member Since: 10/19/2006
Posts: 136
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I have the same problem, but in reverse. Earlier this year I sent out a copy of a  book to another member. She sent me an email requesting the return of her credit claiming the book was "cleaved". This book was a very fat paperback that did have the binding bent back somewhat as you couldn't hold it open enough to read it (it was really fat).

This was my first (and only!) experience with having a book of mine marked RWP so I sent her the credit back immediately although the book was in no way "cleaved" or I wouldn't have posted it. A couple of months later I was checking my transaction history and I saw that this member had never marked the transaction "resolved". I sent her a message asking her why not and reminded her that I had returned her credit at once. The message I got back from her was so rude and nasty it had me floored.

According to her she wasn't aware I had sent the credit back as PBS doesn't inform the member when this happens. I wasn't aware of this since this was my only experience in returning a credit. She said it was my fault because I should have sent her a note of apology when I returned the credit. Since I had returned the credit (for a perfectly good book I might add!) I don't see why I had to apologize too. Her message was so nasty I actually reported her.

The worst part of this is that she still hasn't marked the transaction resolved so I feel I have an undeserved black mark against me.

I have been a member for a couple of years and I am happy to say this was my only bad experience. I love this site and have made many friends and received a lot of great books.

Date Posted: 8/9/2008 7:35 AM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 2,941
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Actually, it does notifiy the person in both the credit registry and (i think) club communications.  I would've reported the rudeness, too.   I wouldn't worry about the fact that it's still not marked resolved;  PBS was made aware of the situation, I'd be willing to bet it's been duly noted that you actually did resolve the issue.  The negatives are, usually, few and far.  This has been the best site I've ever frequented for any purpose since we got hooked up to the internet back in the 90's.  It's definitely the best thing since Wikipedia.  I have far more reasons to get warm fuzzy feelings here than I do for unpleasantness.  

Date Posted: 8/9/2008 9:17 AM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
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I hear ya!  I got a liquid damaged WL book in the mail yesterday and am waiting on a response.  It is so frustrating when people don't follow the rules.  I try to keep in mind that when folks wont cooperate and/or follow the rules, that reporting them is, in the big picture, helpful to everyone here as it helps to weed people out.  I'm sorry this is happening to you.

Date Posted: 8/9/2008 9:49 AM ET
Member Since: 8/27/2005
Posts: 4,134
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I want to second all the posters that are pointing out that you are helping other members by reporting RWP transactions accurately.  I'm sorry to say that some people will get away with what they can, and if every single bad transaction was recorded and went through the correct process it would not be so easy for people to blatantly ignore the rules.  And for those members who send out bad books innocently, you are doing THEM a favor by politely letting them know that they are sending out unacceptable books.

James and anyone else with a digital camera (maybe someday soon I'll enter the 21st centry and get one too, lol) I think it's a great idea to take clear photos of the damage and save them--if you do this and document the damage in your PMs, I can't imagine that you would get into trouble for having a lot of RWP transactions.  Even if your account is flagged for attention because of it, all the PBS team would have to do is see your careful PM documentation to know that you are doing what you're supposed to be doing.

And Anne, yes, you ARE notified when someone gives you a credit, so that argument doesn't fly.  I know it's discouraging to get a rude message when you are in the right, but just remind yourself that the other person is the one with issues, not you--don't let it keep you from using the reporting capabilities the way they are meant to be used.

For me a big part of what makes PBS special is how many truly great, honest and caring people that are here--stand your ground and don't let the few bad members ruin the experience for you.


Date Posted: 8/9/2008 10:18 AM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2007
Posts: 881
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Perhaps that rude person has that particular email "opted out" in her settings.

Date Posted: 8/9/2008 9:21 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
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<<I can only email them if needed, though, I don't belong to picture posting sites>>


I've had a similar run of bad luck lately, enough that I contacted the PBS team to enquire if my membership would be jeopardized, but I got no reply.

I post photos of book damage on Photobucket (which is free), and include a link in both my response to the sender and my notes to the PBS team, so if there's ever a question, they can go back and look at the damage for themselves.  That's not an official suggestion, just something I've taken on myself, but being able to send folks a link to the damage seems to be easier than waiting for them to send (or not send) an email address.