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Topic: RWAP-sender has blatant disregard for requirements

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Susan C. - ,
Subject: RWAP-sender has blatant disregard for requirements
Date Posted: 9/4/2010 1:27 AM ET
Member Since: 2/18/2008
Posts: 13
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I received a textbook missing the CD, which is important to the material. The book also contained writing in several places. I marked it RWAP and sent a PM to the sender, describing the issues. I said perhaps she was not familiar with the posting requirements, so I cut and pasted the appropriate sections and also told her where they were located in the Help Files. Then I asked her if she still had the CD and could send it along; if not, I asked for my credit to be returned. Politely.

So she replied that she didn't realize the book had a CD and wouldn't have sent it without the CD and that she checks all the books she sends out and doesn't post any with writing. She never acknowledges the posting requirements, but had the audacity to say to me that if the CD was so important to me that I should have emailed her to make sure it was included (pretty much the opposite the requirement that she email me with the condition of the book). She said she wouldn't have sent the book without the CD and went on to say that she spent time and money to send the book and there was no reason I should get my credit back and keep the book too, and that no one else has had any problems with her books.

I then became quite annoyed with her and wrote back that she apparently did not care about following the rules of this site and she was expecting me to do what she was supposed to do, that she couldn't just ignore her responsibilities, break the rules and expect no consequences. Whereas I was polite in my first email, I was not so polite in this one. I told her there was a reason I should receive my credit back, because she posted an unpostable item and that her suggestion that I should have been the one to make sure the CD was there was unreasonable.

Her next reply stated that my aggressive and accusatory nature in my first message was unsettling and caused her to become defensive. She thought I was talking about a different book; that she's very thorough when sending her books, and once again, everyone else has been happy with what she's sent; that normally she puts the CD in the book, but sometimes packages it separately in an envelope next to the book, and was I sure it wasn't in the package?

She then suggested that there are free downloads available on the internet for the CD content, she thinks. Then she blasts me with how she didn't appreciate the rude and condescending communicating style I used in my messages. My first message was pretty straightforward, but my second message did have a sort of how-dare-you be so irresponsible tone to it. But basically everything communicated in this email is what was said.

I'm at a loss for where to go with this now. I don't like to be involved in conflict, but I'd really like PBS to know what her attitude is and would like to forward them the email exchanges. On the other hand I don't want to make a bigger deal out of this either because frankly, it drains me.

I'd really like to know what some of you would do in this case.


Susan C.

Date Posted: 9/4/2010 1:35 AM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2009
Posts: 36,865
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IMO blatant disregard for the posting requirements should be brought to the attention of tptb.  Copy and paste all the pm's that were sent between the two of you to them.

Date Posted: 9/4/2010 2:46 AM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2009
Posts: 20,210
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Adrienne is right. Contact TPTB. They like us to try and work thing out between ourselves if possible, but this woman obviously is not willing to do so. TPTB have access to all of our PMs and will see that your were friendly in your first pm and that she never PMd you about the writing to begin with, which is clearly stated in the rules.

Date Posted: 9/4/2010 7:19 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 10,045
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PBS does not care about blatant disregard of the posting requirements UNLESS she admits it in her messages. Which it sounds like she does not. They do not have the book and so cannot tell if it has writing in it (you say it does, sender says it doesn't) or is missing the CD (you say it is, sender says she checks before mailing).

The other thing they care about is a person's record over many transactions (thus the reason why everyone should mark RWAPS) ... not what she/she says about a single transaction.

Unless the other member was rude to you (sounds like she was saying you were rude to HER, true or not I don't know), and/or she admits that there was writing in the book or that she knew a CD was missing (sounds like she doesn't) .... PBS is very very unlikely to become involved.

I would just PM her back politely and let her know that you will have to mark the issue unresolved on such and such a date if you don't get your credit back.

Sometimes, you just have to mark a RWAP unresolved and move on.

Date Posted: 9/4/2010 11:54 AM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
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I'm with Sara on this one.

Ronda (RONDA) - ,
Date Posted: 9/4/2010 11:57 AM ET
Member Since: 3/3/2009
Posts: 415
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PBS did help me with a missing dvd required with a book, but the sender did admit in the pm that she didn't send the dvd (still refused to refund the credit, even after pointing to the help about it).  PBS also updated the book title to say (includes dvd).

So depending on what is said in the pm they might do something.  But you can also ask them to update the book title to indicate cd included.

The next book I was offered that was supposed to have cd, I did pm the sender about it before accepting the book.  They didn't have the cd, so they said they would remove it from thier shelf.  It is probably safer to check on this before accepting the offer.  Maybe attach a requestor condition about it....

Date Posted: 9/4/2010 4:48 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,695
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Also note that you admit you were less than friendly in your second PM and TPTB are likely to call you on that should you contact them about this situation.

Date Posted: 9/4/2010 5:00 PM ET
Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,995
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At this point, it might be best to just send her a polite and to-the-point message stating that you would like your credit back or you will mark the transaction "unresolved" by XXX date.

She's made up her mind and there's nothing more you can do other than to piss her off even more. That'll get you nowhere.

Last Edited on: 9/4/10 5:00 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 9/4/2010 7:56 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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I'm with Lisa on this one.  Time to finish up and move on...in your place I would probably send one more pm (very brief & polite) that book you received is unpostable.  The CD did not arrive with the book, therefore the sender should locate and forward the original or refund your credit.  Give a specific deadline date for her to do so (5 to 7 days after your first pm, whichever is the official PBS time frame).  Then don't bother contacting her again.  Check your credit archive - no credit is unresolved, credit return is resolved. 

Can you send her pics of writing in the book?  Contacting TPTB is up to you, but consider asking the information editing peeps to add the CD to book information page.  'CD information may be available online for free' does not make the book any more postable without the original CD.

Last Edited on: 9/5/10 12:28 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 9/5/2010 1:21 PM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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Since it doesn't look like you will be getting your credit back, it's time to find the material that was on the CD.  Most publishers have downloads for materials on CD's sent with books.  Do a web search for the publisher and then for the book title.  I bet you find the CD contents in a download.

Date Posted: 9/5/2010 3:51 PM ET
Member Since: 12/21/2009
Posts: 579
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yeah, wow... I wouldn't deal with the crazies like that. Definitely contact the TGs here.

And it's probably against copyright to get a ripped version of that CD

Susan C. - ,
Date Posted: 9/5/2010 4:46 PM ET
Member Since: 2/18/2008
Posts: 13
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Hello everyone,

Thank you all for your replies. I have considered everything and decided I'd send her scans of the parts of the book that are pertinent. I got the scans done. Now I have to figure out how to email them to her.

As far as finding the CD content on the internet,  I went to the website shown on the book cover and it's a dead site. I did a Google search and found plenty of books, but when I tried to find the CD content, I found sites that don't appear all that trustworthy. One site I just opened up started putting ads on my computer. Another wanted me to verify I was human by playing a choice of three games. I don't think so.

Perhaps one of you who is better at searching would help me find a legitimate site? The book's ISBN is 0723432120 published by Mosby, a division of Elsevier.The title is McMinn's Color Atlas of Human Anatomy, 5th Edition.  I also went to Elsevier and Elsevier Science and I only found items to purchase. I also searded by the title and CD. Maybe the book is just too old to have the content online. It was published in 2002.

By the way, the description they have on PBS does include the CD. I just don't see how, if she's really checking her books like she said, she could have missed that there was a CD supposed to come with the book. The inside front cover is devoted entirely to the CD, with a big "Don't Forget!" heading. It's shown on the back cover and there's the empty plastic sleeve inside the back cover. . The Preface and User's Guide are descriptive of the CD and it even states that " Text has been limited...and not meant to be comprehensive. The most suitable 'jumping off points' from the book to the CD-ROM are indicated by the use of the CD icon.".

See, being an anatomy book, the CD gives you 3-D views that you cannot get with flat pictures.

So, I thought when I send the scans, I'd offer an apology if she felt I was rude. I still don't think I was. I was just matter-of-fact and tried to leave emotion out of it. But if she was put off, I guess I could have been nicer. She sure didn't hesitate to start slinging the arrows though.

To those of you who said just to move on and forget about it, that is a valid point of view. I find it hard to do though.

Date Posted: 9/5/2010 9:29 PM ET
Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,995
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You can host the photos on a free site like photobucket, then send her the link to the album.

Date Posted: 9/5/2010 9:55 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2009
Posts: 6,852
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Susan, you may want to try this website to download. 





I am not familar with any of the websites, so I do not take any responsibility for the downloads or safety of the sites,  but you asked for some help...

Good Luck. 

Last Edited on: 9/5/10 10:23 PM ET - Total times edited: 3
Date Posted: 9/5/2010 10:45 PM ET
Member Since: 8/15/2007
Posts: 3,044
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The inside front cover is devoted entirely to the CD, with a big "Don't Forget!" heading. It's shown on the back cover and there's the empty plastic sleeve inside the back cover. . The Preface and User's Guide are descriptive of the CD and it even states that " Text has been limited...

She may have obtained the book without reading it which would explain why she didn't realize it needed to have a cd. She should have realized it when posting the book like you said, but just because it says so inside the book doesn't mean she would know it. She probably just briefly flipped through the pages to check for underlining/highlighting and didn't read anything.

If I were you, I would send one more message like the others say giving her a deadline. Then just mark it as resolved or unresolved and move on. Lingering over it will only cause you more grief. If she makes a habit of sending textbooks without the supplemental material, then she'll eventually get her account reviewed.

Susan C. - ,
Date Posted: 9/5/2010 11:13 PM ET
Member Since: 2/18/2008
Posts: 13
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Thanks again for those trying to help.


Lisa, I signed up for Shutterfly to share the scans, but it turns out that the scans are PDFs and apparently don't upload like JPEGs. So I found out that I can attach the scans to my Yahoo email. I did a test run to myself and that worked. So if it works with Yahoo, how would I get it to work within the PBS email system?

Robin, thanks so much for finding those websites for me. I'm a little reluctant to download from them since I have no idea who is behind the sites and I think you have to register to be able to download. They all show the correct book, but the way it looks to me is that the downloads are for the actual book instead of the CD. So, I'm going to hold off on that for now.

Amee, the sender said she was clearing out books she had from when she was in school, so I do believe she used the book and it's probably her writing in it. It had an original textbook price label on it and no used stickers.

I'm getting weary....when this happens I have a tendency to let things slide. That may be what happens here, but I'll see how I'm feeling about it tomorrow. What's funny is that it's not the credit I want, it's the CD!

Date Posted: 9/5/2010 11:41 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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Yes Susan, moving on can be difficult when one is this frustrated *hugs* but continuing to dwell on it probably won't help either *another hug*

The textbook may become usable if you can find and download the CD contents, but as Mary points out...downloaded (ripped) CD's are not transferrable, and do not make the book postable.

Date Posted: 9/5/2010 11:57 PM ET
Member Since: 3/22/2009
Posts: 2,402
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What a rotten situation! It doesn't help as far as PBS goes, but if the CD info can't be obtained for the book you have, eBay has the book and disc available for less than $14 shipped. Not a great option, but it might do in a bind...