Discussion Forums - Questions about PaperBackSwap Questions about PaperBackSwap

Topic: RWP disputes?

Club rule - Please, if you cannot be courteous and respectful, do not post in this forum.
  Unlock Forum posting with Annual Membership.
Subject: RWP disputes?
Date Posted: 2/9/2008 11:16 AM ET
Member Since: 2/11/2007
Posts: 808
Back To Top

I have never had a book of mine marked RWP (most are in nearly new condition when sent), but have one on my TBR pile with "age spots" - it's a 20 year old paperback that's quite tough to find in the States; there is one person on its wishlist. I'd rather not PM the sender in advance, putting the idea in the person's mind that there might be a potential problem. So, I'd like to know what mechanism exists for a sender to dispute an RWP marking if the recipient were to say it was "stained" or something?  Thanks

Date Posted: 2/9/2008 11:22 AM ET
Member Since: 4/27/2007
Posts: 3,596
Back To Top

If the receiver marks it RWP you will get a PM with their complaint.  You will then be able to respond via PM.  All those messages that go back and forth are attached to the original transaction, so R&R would be able to see both sides of the dispute if they ever looked in to it. 

You would have the ability to choose to refund the credit or not, so it is not like you would have to fight to get the credit.  R&R ask that members settle their own disputes, so it is not likely that anyone would ever see the details of the transaction, anyway.

However, I would encourage you to confirm with the receiver that it is an older book with some spotting.  Most people realize older books are going to have such imperfections - I think it would cause you less grief in the long run to send the PM.  If they don't want it, then you don't risk sending a book they will complain about.  If they say it is fine, it is not likely they will change their mind unless there is other damage to the book.  I bet if you check before sending that it will be a smooth transaction.

Date Posted: 2/9/2008 11:23 AM ET
Member Since: 4/27/2007
Posts: 3,596
Back To Top

I also want to add that a book that is older and hard to find is probably known to be just that by the person with it on their wishlist.  They will probably happily accept it in any condition.

Date Posted: 2/9/2008 11:46 AM ET
Member Since: 10/6/2005
Posts: 10,718
Back To Top

I'm always happy to receive an older, hard to find book in just about any condition - as long as there aren't pages missing like the one I got a few weeks ago!

Date Posted: 2/9/2008 2:56 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
Back To Top


Depending on the nature of the "age spots", the book may not be postable.  I'm sure you've familiar with them, but some pertinent lines from the PBS Condition Guidelines:

"Older books may have some page yellowing or spine-creasing or dogeared pages; these are all OKAY.

  • No damage at all from water or other liquid
  • Not soiled
  • No stains
  • No mold
  • no highlighting, underlining or writing on text pages"
  • I'm not trying to play devil's advocate, but foxing (which is often caused by mold) and other other staining would make the book unpostable per PBS guidelines.  I understand you do not want to "put the idea" of a problem into anyone's head, but I think most folks would prefer to be asked about potential borderline issues before sending, rather than have to haggle over a credit afterwards. 

    When in doubt with potential damage, it might be better to offer it as a potential "freebie with purchase" etc in the Bazaar rather than risk a RWP.



    Date Posted: 2/9/2008 3:38 PM ET
    Member Since: 10/26/2005
    Posts: 438
    Back To Top

    If it's a book on my wishlist.  I WANT it! :-)

    Subject: older books
    Date Posted: 2/9/2008 4:14 PM ET
    Member Since: 7/28/2006
    Posts: 122
    Back To Top

    I had this problem with a book I sent. It was an older book and the person I sent it to PMed me to say it was water damaged but she didnt care  she just wanted me to know. I dont believe it was water damage but it was small yellowed dots about the size of a pencil point . I think this kind of thing happens from acid in the paper as it is like that on quite a few of the older books I own that have always been kept in a dry spot.

    Date Posted: 2/9/2008 4:39 PM ET
    Member Since: 2/2/2006
    Posts: 2,246
    Back To Top

    When I sent out older books, I always PM'd the person first, to make sure they understood that it was a cheap paperback published in 1970, so it wasn't going to look like new, and I'd give them a fairly detailed description of the book. I have never yet had a person tell me that they didn't want it, and I never got a RWP on any of them.

    I did feel bad once when an out of print book fell apart in my hands as I was wrapping it to send and I had to cancel.


    Date Posted: 2/9/2008 6:24 PM ET
    Member Since: 2/11/2007
    Posts: 808
    Back To Top

    This once, I'll probably post the book (I have no plans on actually reading it soon), and PM a requestor with description for "pre-approval" before actually sending it.

    It is a hard-to-find out-of-print book in otherwise good condition. If I don't trade it here, I'd leave it on a local swap shelf instead.


    Date Posted: 2/9/2008 7:49 PM ET
    Member Since: 12/21/2007
    Posts: 1,642
    Back To Top

    Yeah--I'm with Rebecca. If it's a book on my wishlist, I'm gonna be really happy to get it!

    Date Posted: 2/9/2008 11:36 PM ET
    Member Since: 1/2/2008
    Posts: 174
    Back To Top

    I've tagged a couple of SF books on my shelf as "Old and delicate". They were in line with the guidelines, but I wanted to warn people, somehow, that these weren't reprints. Most of them flew off my shelf with no complaints.

    Date Posted: 2/10/2008 7:56 AM ET
    Member Since: 2/28/2007
    Posts: 2,164
    Back To Top

    I've tagged a couple of SF books on my shelf as "Old and delicate". They were in line with the guidelines, but I wanted to warn people, somehow, that these weren't reprints.

    Unfortunately, when you tag a book on PBS, the tag applies to every copy of the book, not just yours.  So, people aren't going to know that this means that your particular copy has this issue. 

    Date Posted: 2/10/2008 11:03 AM ET
    Member Since: 1/17/2007
    Posts: 1,051
    Back To Top

    If there's something on my wishlist, I want it :) And then....

    If there "might" be a situation on the condition, I totally appreciate the PM about the condition, "I just want to make sure you know this is a vintage, OOP book. There is some yellowing on the edges, but it does fall along PBS guidelines for posting. Let me know if you still want the book."



    patticom - ,
    Date Posted: 2/10/2008 11:07 AM ET
    Member Since: 11/3/2007
    Posts: 416
    Back To Top

    One solution would be to list it individually with no ISBN, then you could give a more detailed description... but that will only work if the system picks up on non-ISBN books with the same title as one on a wishlist, and I haven't gotten a clear answer to that question yet.  I've gotten several "similar to wish" emails for various things on my wish list, but I'm pretty sure they all were different (not non) ISBN editions.


    Date Posted: 2/10/2008 5:36 PM ET
    Member Since: 12/23/2005
    Posts: 3,020
    Back To Top

    I have an OOP book on my list that a friend is dieing to read.  We couldn't care less what condition it is in.  She is desperate to read the book.  It was the last of a series.

    Date Posted: 2/10/2008 6:23 PM ET
    Member Since: 2/11/2007
    Posts: 808
    Back To Top

    If it's an OOP book that you really want to read, not necessarily own, have you thought about asking your library to order it via Inter Library Loan for you?  It might cost a small handling fee of a dollar or so, you aren't guaanteed exactly when it will arrive, and must return it after a couple of weeks, but still most OOP books like that are very $$ - if you can find a copy, and are highly unlikely to post anytime soon.

    Just a thought


    Date Posted: 2/10/2008 8:38 PM ET
    Member Since: 11/14/2005
    Posts: 6,421
    Back To Top

    Patricia, the Help Center is very specific in that non-ISBN books do not trigger a similar copy notification on a same/similar titles. I'm not sure who you asked that didn't give you a clear answer, but here is the HC quote:

    Non-ISBN items do not work well with the Wish List:

    • Since each non-ISBN listing refers only to ONE copy of a book, that will be the only book that triggers a WIsh List offer if a non-ISBN item is put on a Wish List
    • Non-ISBN items are not "linked" to any other items in the database, and will not trigger "similar-to-wished-for-item" alert emails.
    Date Posted: 2/11/2008 9:06 AM ET
    Member Since: 11/27/2007
    Posts: 1,222
    Back To Top

    I'm not trying to play devil's advocate, but foxing (which is often caused by mold) and other other staining would make the book unpostable per PBS guidelines.

    I received a book with foxing and was told it was perfectly fine to receive and repost. So, if foxing isn't acceptable, I'm stuck with an old book that is unpostable that I didn't even like reading anyway.

    Date Posted: 2/11/2008 1:05 PM ET
    Member Since: 8/16/2007
    Posts: 15,212
    Back To Top

    Foxing is usually a dye issue in older books and not staining or mold. If it were the only thing wrong with a book and wasn't really really heavy, I'd be fine posting the book. If there are other aging or wear issues, or it was really bad, I'd either not post the book, or I'd PM the requestor and let them know of the foxing and let them decide. If they didn't want it, I'd cancel the order, its not like there is a huge FIFO line on the older books.

    Date Posted: 2/11/2008 8:28 PM ET
    Member Since: 10/27/2007
    Posts: 643
    Back To Top


    Date Posted: 2/12/2008 8:17 AM ET
    Member Since: 11/27/2007
    Posts: 1,222
    Back To Top

    Well, from sites I've read it says the exact cause of foxing isn't known, but one theory is that it's caused by mold.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxing for below:

    The causes of foxing are not well understood. One theory is that foxing is caused by a fungal growth on the paper. Another theory is that foxing is caused by the effect on certain papers of the oxidation of iron, copper, or other substances in the pulp or rag from which the paper was made. It is possible that multiple factors are involved. It is believed that high humidity contributes to foxing.


    The book I have isn't very old. Maybe from the 1980's. This is exactly what my foxing looks like: http://www.abebooks.co.uk/docs/HelpCentral/Glossary/images/foxing.jpg


    Last Edited on: 2/12/08 8:20 AM ET - Total times edited: 3