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Topic: Received book in bad condition and sender won't refund credit

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Subject: Received book in bad condition and sender won't refund credit
Date Posted: 11/2/2009 5:04 PM ET
Member Since: 1/14/2009
Posts: 30
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I received a book with a torn binding.  The sender will not return my credit.  In fact, the sender referred me to amazon.com for new books.  I don't have a ton of conditions.  I ask that the book not come from a smoking home.  That's it.  I want a book where the pages won't fall out.  I've reported the issue as unresolved, but is there anyway for me to get that credit back?

Date Posted: 11/2/2009 5:20 PM ET
Member Since: 1/20/2009
Posts: 2,680
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They referred you to Amazon for new books? Normally, there wouldn't be anything you could do. But, in this case, you might think about reporting them to PBS. They may not do anything about the credit, but there are certain rules here, and by referring you to Amazon for new books the sender made it fairly clear that they have an issue with those rules. The PBS team may wish to speak with them about it, since it sounds like one of those "it's a free book, so take it and be happy" people.

Date Posted: 11/2/2009 5:51 PM ET
Member Since: 1/4/2009
Posts: 97
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I agree with Tiffany, but I bet you won't get your credit back.  I still think the PBS team should know what there response was so they maybe they can keep on eye on this person.

Date Posted: 11/4/2009 2:43 PM ET
Member Since: 2/15/2009
Posts: 13
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I disagree on one point, it is not a free book.  You had to have a book in the first place to put on paperback swap and mail it to get a credit to get that book, no way is that free.  And yes I would complain about the book you rec'd, but here lately I find that attitude of " too bad".  Having rec'd a water damage book (credit was returned) and a book that was written in all the way thru - no credit returned and misc other things I have to admit I am just about ready to use up points and quit, maybe just quit.

Date Posted: 11/4/2009 6:57 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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Good point Tiffany.

Date Posted: 11/6/2009 2:40 PM ET
Member Since: 4/7/2009
Posts: 10
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That sounds SO rude, to tell someone to go to Amazon if you want "new" books! My sympathies!

Sometimes you meet a bad egg or two on PBS. It's worth reporting to PBS but there's not much they or you can do. Sometimes one has to take a hit or two, but the great experiences always outweigh the bad ones here (unlike in real life!).

Hope this helps--psychologically--anyway!l

Date Posted: 11/6/2009 4:36 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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To my understanding books with pages falling out are unpostable.  Diod the book meet the postability conditions PBS has set up?  Ifnot, that and the PM about the referral to Amazon may help you get your credit back through the PBS team.  They don't take that sort of thing lightly.  But you can't ever tell unless you try!


Date Posted: 11/6/2009 6:53 PM ET
Member Since: 1/14/2009
Posts: 30
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Thank you for the tips.  I have had her account marked by marking the issue as unresolved.  The spine was torn.  Someone gave me the advice of taking pictures.,  Honestly, I'm not going to stop posting and trading because of one individual.  I'm just really bummed this happened and she was so rude.

Date Posted: 11/6/2009 8:08 PM ET
Member Since: 8/2/2009
Posts: 166
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let me ask a question....... If she( Kathryn M) marks the book RWAP doesnt the other person have to "make it right".... to...I dont know earn that credit....?

Then say the other does nothing to "make it right" ....wouldnt she(Kathryn M) then get her credit back.

Is there some sort of time period this is all supposed to happen in?


I thought PBS would always side with the receiver in such complaints

I dont know anything for sure Im just curious

Date Posted: 11/6/2009 8:56 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2009
Posts: 6,852
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If she( Kathryn M) marks the book RWAP doesnt the other person have to "make it right".... to...I dont know earn that credit....?

As soon as the book is marked received (with or without a problem) the sender receives the credit.  If they use PBS Postage or DC they already earned the credit.  However, a unresolved mark puts a black mark on the senders account and if there are too many unresolved swaps, the senders account could be in  jeopardy as in closed temporarily or permanently.    PBS does not get involved in individual swaps, however they frown on rude behavior and if a member does not communicate with each other in a problem swap. 

If you are a sender , you do no have back the credit - and depending up on the circumstance sometimes you shouldn't.   For example if a person marks the transaction RWAP and it is because it is a Library book and they did not have a RC that stated no Library books , they have no right marking it RWAP and the sender shouldn't return the credit.  However, broken bindings and pages falling out are against posting guidelines and in this case the sender should return the credit.

Date Posted: 11/6/2009 8:59 PM ET
Member Since: 1/20/2009
Posts: 2,680
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Actually, with RWAPs, it's always the sender's choice whether or not to refund the credit. However, if they don't 'make it right' as you say, the receiver can mark the transaction unresolved and put a double black mark on the sender's record. Sometimes, in a case of extreme rudeness or a repeat offender, PBS will step in and return the credit. Otherwise, there's nothing to really force a sender to do anything, other than not wanting a double black mark on their record.

That being said, of all the RWAPs I've had, most are resolved very quickly and politely, and I've only ever had to mark one unresolved (the person posted the mass market paperback to the trade size paperback ISBN, and then insisted that they didn't make a mistake).

No, PBS doesn't always side with the receiver. That wouldn't be fair at all. The receiver could be in the wrong just as easily as the sender (just ask all the people here who have had people order books, and then insist they had ordered an audiobook, or some such nonsense). When they do step in, they look at the records (PMs and everything included) to find out the story, and possibly question people involved or whatever, depending how serious a situation is.

Date Posted: 11/6/2009 10:17 PM ET
Member Since: 8/2/2009
Posts: 166
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Ok .....well thanks good stuff to know.........I thought  if you marked something RWAP your credit was held up in some sorta alternate reality.....lol ......until the powers that be decreed otherwise. It makes perfect sense for members to try and work out there differences before going to PBS. I've been pretty lucky so far........only one problem and it was my fault. The other member was extremly nice about it and once I understood how it worked(ie: my mistake) everybody got the right book and in the end it worked out.

Date Posted: 11/6/2009 10:18 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 10,128
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When they step in, it is usually because the wrong-doer admits in a PM tha tthey knew about whatever damage happened to the book, and they sent it anyway. It's an admission of guilt.

I do not believe that they ever step into a transaction if the sender denies the issue. PBS has never seen the book and they would have no way to determine the truth of the matter.

Even with the postability rules, there are many gray areas that a book can fall into ... where some members would think it is postable and some wouldn't. It can be a judgement call sometimes.

And, I think that it is perfectly fair to presume that the sender is correct (which is what they do, in effect, by not stepping in and returning the credit automatically) ... after all, the sender has paid out cash to mail the book, and the receiver has the book in their hands. The presumption would be that the sender is in the right ... .because why else would they pay what is usually more than $2 to mail the book out?

Date Posted: 11/6/2009 10:39 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,804
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From the ever helpful Help Center:

"We cannot mediate individual problem swaps at PBS.  We can't adjudicate from a distance; moreover, the club is large enough that even intervening in the small percentage of disputed transactions would not be possible time-wise.  This is why marking a problem swap received "with a problem" is so important: if a sender's account shows a pattern of problems, we will intervene and the sender may be expelled from the club. "