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Topic: Requestor Conditions

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Subject: Requestor Conditions
Date Posted: 10/1/2010 9:48 AM ET
Member Since: 9/24/2005
Posts: 151
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As a condition, I ask that I be informed of writing in any workbooks that I've requested.  This is actually a PBS Guideline, not my own condition.  The only reason I decided to write that as a condition is b/c people were sending me workbooks that were written in!  So, I list that as a condition.

An honest mistake was made when I received a workbook with the first page torn out and the next page completely filled in.  If I had known this condition, I would not have requested the book.  The sender actually stated that this was in "brand new condtion".  Clearly, it is not.  I've asked for my credit back, but sender does not agree.

Sender says that I can re-list the book and she will request it instead.  She says that is reasonable. I'm not disputing that it was an unintentional send. But I would not have ordered the book, there are none other listed, and now I'm out a credit b/c of the mistake.  If I re-list, then I'm also out the cost of shipping (no matter who I send it to; and I doubt anyone else would want it in this condition anyway)!

Sure, it's "only" one credit or it's "only" one shipping charge, but I treasure my credits and use them sparingly as I have 200 books on my Wish List and I have 500 on my Reminder List waiting to be on my Wish List.

What would you do?

Date Posted: 10/1/2010 10:31 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,187
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I would tell her that no matter what happens to the book, she broke the club rules sending it and is required to give you your credit back.  If she wants the book back... she needs to give you an additional credit or postage to cover that.

This is the Help Center document she needs to read: A requestor says there is a problem with a book I sent!



Last Edited on: 10/1/10 10:33 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/1/2010 10:58 AM ET
Member Since: 11/5/2009
Posts: 1,083
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I can see the missing page as being an "honest mistake", but not the page that was entirely filled in.  She owes you a credit and if she wants the book back, she owes you two credits.  Don't back down on this.  It's important that we all hold members to the rules set here, otherwise this place will become the "wild west" where anything goes.

Date Posted: 10/1/2010 1:21 PM ET
Member Since: 11/11/2005
Posts: 5,238
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Honest or not, the mistake is HER mistake - and you shouldn't have to pay anything for her mistake, not even the postage to send the book back.  She needs to refund the credit that you spent for the book, since you didn't get a book that met your RC's - or even PBS's postability conditions.   If she wants you to post the book so that she can order it and have you send it back to her, then she needs to send you another credit to cover the cost of the postage.

Date Posted: 10/1/2010 1:52 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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She has no right to ask you to list the book to get your credit back. You're not required to return it, and if you do you're due the cost of return postage.

http://www.paperbackswap.com/help/search.php?terms=refund+credit

If you receive a book with an "unofficial problem" as listed below you should mark it received normally and note the problem on the Book Received/Survey page.  You are not obligated to return the problem item at your expense, but if the sender gives you an extra credit or postage to do so, of course you may.   If a pattern of "official" OR "unofficial" problems (especially official problems that are not resolved according to requestor follow-up) emerges on a sender's account, we will take action.

.....

"Official" problems (Wrong book versions/Inappropriate items, Damaged books, Damaged by USPS books, and books that violate Requestor Conditions) are marked as such during the process of marking the book received (see below for instructions)

 

Date Posted: 10/2/2010 4:36 PM ET
Member Since: 9/24/2005
Posts: 151
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Thank you all. I needed an outside opinion.  I feel that I shouldn't send the book back.  She says that if she refunds my credit, she would be out a book, a credit, and the postage.  Right.  I don't think she understands that the same is true for me... I'm out a book (since I didn't get the book I wanted in the condition I wanted; I would have passed on it) and a credit as it stands.  If I send the book back, I'm out a book, a credit (from the original oder of the book), and the postage.

Now, she is asking me to photograph the book's missing page and the page that's written on (well, I guess she means the missing page's spot!).  I'm not up to doing that... after all, I could just tear a page out today and write on the next page; a photograph isn't going to prove that it was there when I opened the package!

In any event, she is not refunding and she stands firm that "it's only three pages".  Oh, well. Live and learn.  It's just frustrating b/c I only listed this as a condition b/c people weren't following it (for workbooks) in the first place.

Thank you for the link posted above pertaining to books sent that do not meet conditions.  It clearly states that the receiver does not need to send the books back.  I am not going to do that.



Last Edited on: 10/2/10 4:42 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/2/2010 5:31 PM ET
Member Since: 12/3/2005
Posts: 3,335
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So sorry that you're going through this.  In situations like this, I allow the sender just one opportunity to correct their error.  If they become snotty or abrasive I'll generally just walk away and mark the transaction as unresolved.  Much easier than having the back and forth PMs.  While credits do have a value and it's annoying to be out one because of another's bad actions, my sanity and attempt at a drama free life are worth considerably more than the credit.  The system will weed out people that continuously send out subpar books and do not resolve the issue.

Date Posted: 10/2/2010 6:15 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,333
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The help docs do suggest asking the requestor if he'd be willing to share photos in the case of a disputed problem.  You don't have to, but often photos will solve the problem.  In other words, her request is suggested by the help docs, but it's okay for you to say no.

This help doc: A requestor says there is a problem with a book I sent!

says:

  • If you dispute the problem as described, it is OK to ask for digital photos of the book.
    • you can provide an email address to the other member, OR she/he can upload images to a photo-hosting site like photobucket.
Date Posted: 10/3/2010 11:04 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,774
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Why not just take the pictures and post them?

I'm not up to doing that... after all, I could just tear a page out today and write on the next page; a photograph isn't going to prove that it was there when I opened the package!

I sincerely doubt that she would believe that you tore the page out yourself and then wrote on the next one. Some senders do seem to believe that people lie about the condition of the books when they receive them .... but to believe that you would take a postable book that you receive and render it unpostable is another level of crazy altogether. What would be the benefit to you, to do that? It is maybe not so crazy to think that someone might lie to get the credit back for a book (because then they would have a postable book and their credit back, too) ... but to think that someone would render a postable book unpostable to get the credit back is just crazy. There would be no benefit to you to do so at all ... after all, once you made the book unpostable there is no guarantee that you would get the credit back, and even if you do, you are not ahead in any way because you now have an unpostable book.

Subject: Saga continues!
Date Posted: 10/4/2010 11:07 AM ET
Member Since: 9/24/2005
Posts: 151
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O.M.G.!  So, I scanned the page written on (which is page 3). Then, I scanned the bottom half of page 3 together with the bottom half of the page before it (to show that it was NOT page 2... since page 2 is missing).  Because the page is perforated, the tear is clean, not jagged.  Sender is now asking me to scan the Table of Contents to PROVE that there really is supposed to be a page 1 and a page 2!!    surprise  Seriously?  She thinks that the book might start on page 3???  She says that she does not see a jagged edge where a page would have been torn out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, I put a small,  colored piece of paper behind the perforated, clean-cut, torn-out page and scanned that.  Then, I scanned the Table of Contents showing that there REALLY IS supposed to be a page 1 and a page 2.  laugh

You know, I was all set at the very beginning when she denied my refund to just chalk this up to another credit loss / bad experience (of which I've had a few, not many at all!).  But she came back to me asking for a reply.  angry

Anyways, I thought you all might want to see how it's playing out. I told her I was finished jumping through her hoops and asked that she either do the right thing or not.

Subject: and there's more...
Date Posted: 10/4/2010 2:09 PM ET
Member Since: 9/24/2005
Posts: 151
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Okay, this is so freakin' funny that it is SAD.  Sender has know seen my last scan (showing missing page and showing Table of Contents where book clearly states that there is a page 1 and a page 2). With that set of scans, I ask that she do the right thing or not and asked her to not belabor this any longer; just do it or end this.  frown

She is holding firm that I need to return the book to her (by listing it and having her request it with one credit) OR, if I am going to keep the book... she is asking me to let her know what I intend to do with it (throw it away, use it anyway, or re-post it)!!!!!!!!!!!   A-r-g-h!!  I cannot believe this!  angry

Bottom line:  YOU (the sender) made the mistake; YOU (sender) said that the book was in 'brand new' condition and it IS NOT.  YOU (sender) owe me one credit. 

Other thing... she has other good books listed on her shelf that I have on my reminder list for when I have enough credits!  Wish there was some way to easily 'block' a sender. 



Last Edited on: 10/4/10 2:11 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/4/2010 3:17 PM ET
Member Since: 2/25/2010
Posts: 388
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Marcia, she has no right to demand anything from you.  You have proven your point and now this borders on harassment. 

 

You can send copies of your PMs to TPTB but you probably won't get your credit back.  It would put them on the alert and maybe they'd send a PM to her reminding her of the rules.

 

Good luck with this.  I'm sorry that it is causing so much stress.

Date Posted: 10/4/2010 3:35 PM ET
Member Since: 1/12/2009
Posts: 387
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At this point I would just let the sender know that you intend to mark the situation "unresolved" if your credit is not returned by x date. 

I would count the credit loss as bad luck and move on.  You shouldn't have to jump through hoops to try and get it back.  You have made a good faith effort to do what they asked and it doesn't seem like anything you provide is going to satisfy the sender. 

Date Posted: 10/4/2010 4:00 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,187
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Time to mark it not resolved and move on (assuming you did in fact mark it received with a problem when you received it). Sending the PMs to the Team will not do anything, they do not get involved in individual swap differences and really don't have time to unless one side is being extremely rude or admits they are willingly breaking the rules. Marking the transaction followup as unresolved is how you give them notice of a swap that went bad.

If the book is not usable to you as you say, then offer it in the Book Bazaar for a credit, there are many people who expect use in workbooks and many not care about the first 3 pages missing/used. Its very frustrating to get a damaged book, but this one appears like it will not be resolved and continuing to PM the sender is only going to lead to more frustrations. There are times when the situation just cannot be resolved.

Subject: oh my!
Date Posted: 10/4/2010 5:02 PM ET
Member Since: 9/24/2005
Posts: 151
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I am not PM'ing her first. She is PM'ing me.  Now she PM'd me to say that I still have not told her what I plan to do with the book and that is why she has not decided whether or not to ask for the book back!!  I wrote to her and asked that she please refrain from PM'ing me!

I have said twice to her (now three times) that it is over.  I am resigned to the fact that this is unresolve-able - and I was already resigned to that several PM's ago!!!

Date Posted: 10/4/2010 5:31 PM ET
Member Since: 2/25/2010
Posts: 388
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Marcia, this lady sounds like a total goof.  Wanting to know what you're going to do with that book.  As if it still belonged to her. 

 

Date Posted: 10/5/2010 5:08 PM ET
Member Since: 9/24/2005
Posts: 151
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 I did specifically state in my last email to her, "please do not contact me again" but she sent one last note.  I had listed several ideas of what I 'could' do with the book (keep, toss, use, tear up and use as scrap paper, re-list, sell on eBay, sell on Craigslist, donate, trash, etc.), and said that I didn't see how it mattered ut that I would ask that she not contact me anymore! 

She wrote back telling me that she didn't mean to 'stump me' (by asking what I intended to do with it) and saying that I was condescending.

Several hours later, she refunded my credit.

Oh my! Glad that is over!

Date Posted: 10/5/2010 6:30 PM ET
Member Since: 9/8/2009
Posts: 615
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You forgot about lining the bird cage and replacing the Sears' catalog in the outhouse.  LOL 

Sheesh, some peoples' kids...... Doesn't it just make you shake your head?  LOL 

Date Posted: 10/5/2010 7:15 PM ET
Member Since: 11/15/2008
Posts: 3,308
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I'm so glad it's over, and you got your credit.  I hate confrontations like this one.  Thanfully they are rare!

 

 Some senders do seem to believe that people lie about the condition of the books when they receive them .... but to believe that you would take a postable book that you receive and render it unpostable is another level of crazy altogether.

Ah, but such a level of crazy is out there.  I've been accused of doing that.  I RWAP'd a book for a liquid stain and was told it was blatantly impossible, since the never allowed liquid near her books.  I sent her a picture.  She said I must have put it there myself or that someone in my family did it .  I marked it unresolved.  Luckily,  this is really really rare :)

Date Posted: 10/5/2010 8:25 PM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
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She probably asked for help and was told she was in the wrong, or read the help documents and figured it out for herself. If she contacts you again, though I have a feeling she wont, you can report her for harassment. That the Team doesn't tolerate, or at least they haven't in the past.

Date Posted: 10/7/2010 8:14 AM ET
Member Since: 10/4/2005
Posts: 27
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Marcia, I'm glad you got your credit back and that the situation has been finished (though it's a shame you can't get another copy of the book you want).

 

Your post made me laugh a bit to myself because I'm in a similar situation.  Now I guess I feel better.  FWIW, I did not know that you could mark a problem transaction "unresolved" -- I guess that's good, because it really reminds me that all my RWAPs have been resolved politely in the past.

Date Posted: 10/11/2010 4:11 AM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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Elizabeth, since you say you are in a similar situation, remember to tell your other half of your problem, that if you do have to mark this as an "UNRESOLVED SITUATION" that PBS will count this as a double black mark on their account, rather than just a single black mark. That often gets their attention. When they think about it causing TWO marks against them, they often decide to change their tune a bit.

Good luck to you, hope you get your credit back as well.

Subject: related questions to problem RWAP transactions
Date Posted: 10/12/2010 5:42 PM ET
Member Since: 9/23/2010
Posts: 281
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Ok, so I'm new here, and still learning. thanks for the info, I went and read the "what if..." pages recommended above. Very useful. I've been reading about problems with RWAPs and now I have some questions.

1.  Someone (not here, in another forum) mentioned looking at someone's "problem transaction" numbers. Where would I see that. In eBay, your Feedback is easily found, but I don't see anythign on my profile, or my friends' that looks like that.

2.  At what point does it become clear that someone is using the RWAP system to just get free books?

3.  When do TPTB step in? I get that they can't resolve individual transactions, but at what point do they do somehting...and what do they do?

 

Thanks!!

 

Robin

Date Posted: 10/12/2010 6:03 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,774
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1.  Someone (not here, in another forum) mentioned looking at someone's "problem transaction" numbers. Where would I see that. In eBay, your Feedback is easily found, but I don't see anythign on my profile, or my friends' that looks like that.

PBS does not make that information available to users. You can get an idea of how many lost books or RWAPs you yourself have, by looking in your Transaction Archive .... but you cannot see anybody elses.

2.  At what point does it become clear that someone is using the RWAP system to just get free books?

It would be hard for someone to use RWAPs to get free books as a consistent thing. The sender of the book always has the choice of whether or not to refund a credit, and many people would probably not  refund the credit if something did not sound right about the RWAP report. Like most senders, I check my books over carefully before I send them ... that is not to say that I might not miss some small damage to a book, but if someone was to issue a RWAP and complain about a large amount of damage, I would be suspicious.

In any case, PBS has some way of flagging accounts that have more than the average number of RWAPS or lost books ... probably automatically based on averages or percentages of RWAPs or books lost, although they do not make the exact numbers or percentages that trigger that flag public.

3.  When do TPTB step in? I get that they can't resolve individual transactions, but at what point do they do somehting...and what do they do?

We know that they flag accounts and investigate them ... they may contact the member and ask them to explain if there is an issue, or perhaps they will just suspend them if they are doing something blatently against the site rules. People have posted before that they have been asked about more than average numbers of books lost, for example.

Date Posted: 10/12/2010 9:18 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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They might  step in if someone gets abusive in PMs, doesn't respond at all or admits in a PM that they send the damaged book but still refuse to refund the credit.