Here's the response from the RWAP that I received yesterday.  Can someone help me with a response and the link about damaged books and returned credits. I can't believe someone would think a book in this type of condition is fine.

Thank you

(This is my message to the sender) The book I received from you is not in postable condition - per the requirements of this site.
Some liquid damage is on a few of the pages. The spine is split and is separating from the book. Also has some loose pages. I would like my credit back, since I won't be able to repost this book.
Thank you

Message from sender

I am sorry that you found the book unacceptable. As I received the book from a paperbackswap member only three weeks ago, I can assure you, the damage you found is exactly as I received it. However, each of us has different standards. I will certainly return your credit to you, however, I request that you return the damged book to me. At the return of the book, I will, of course, give you another credit to cover your postage cost. Perhaps had I been as discriminative as you upon receipt of said book, I would not be out 2 credits. But fair is fair and I will return your credit posthaste but, I also wish the book returned to me as I am sure you do not find it readable...

First, do not send the book back to the sender without getting your two credits first. Whether you decide to send the book back is up to you but the sender needs to first return your credit for the unpostable and send another to cover postage.

I'd respond something like this, Once I receive my credit back I will mark the transaction resolved otherwise it will be unresolved and you will get two black marks on your account. It doesn't matter if a book is "readable" as books must be "postable" and meet the site guidelines to be posted on this website. 

Thank you. The sender did return one credit, but then sent the request for me to send the book back and then she would return another credit.

It sounds like the sender is giving you your credit, and a credit to return the book.  Is it that you don't want to return the book to her?  You, of course don't have to, but I would in this situation.  I think her note sounds defensive and slightly annoyed, but I wouldn't respond to that.  I would just politely tell her that when I got both of the credits I would mail the book and provide her a DC number (not necessary, but I usually will use paypal postage as a good faith gesture if someone gives me the credit first). 

I have no problem sending the book back to her. I just hate it when their defense is that they received from another member in that condition. I just hope that she doesn't repost the book into the system.

Saying "I got it like that" is absolutely no defense and that is why it is so important that when anyone receives a book in unpostable condition they mark it RWAP! Yes, it is a hassle! Yes, I hate to do it too! But if people don't have any consequences for sending out unpostable books there is no reason for them to stop sending out unpostable books. PBS will suspend the account of people with a track record of sending unpostable books. I know I am preaching to the choir here, but as long as people initially receiving the unpostable book don't mark it as RWAP, it is going to be an ongoing problem.

You have your credit back so that's good.  Do you want to return the book to her?  If so, tell her she needs to send you that credit up front.  If she won't then don't return the book.

You are under NO obligation to return the book now.  If you want to keep it to read, then do so, just tell her that.  I certainly wouldn't return the book without the credit or postage $$ up front.

Sorry that you received a book that you had to RWAP. I don't understand why the member who sent you the unpostable book didn't RWAP it when she received it. She admitted in her response that she received it just like you did. I really dislike hearing that response, well that's the way I got it. That doesn't make the book postable. Geez... The blatant ignoring of PBS postable book guidelines is what is making more and more people post their rants on this forum when they receive unpostable books. I don't understand why and how some members think they can get away with continually sending unpostable books. If you do send the book back, wait until you receive the 2nd credit from her before you mail it. I sure hope she doesn't plan on reposting it. Can't figure out why she would want it back, but she has that choice if she wants to give you another credit ahead of time.

"each of us has different standards" from this statement alone I would not send the book back. there is NO different standards for water marks or liquid damage. IF it has some then it is not postable. No grey area there at all.   I do think that those that make comments like these in response to RWAP and ask for the book back are going to repost them because they see nothing wrong with the book as its 'readable" to them.

It sounds like the sender is giving you your credit, and a credit to return the book.  Is it that you don't want to return the book to her?

The issue is that she wants the member to return the book to her BEFORE she gives her a credit for sending the book back.  I wouldn't take a chance on her ever giving me the credit once she got the book back.

Personally I wouldn't even send it back.  The only reason why she would want it back is so that she can post it again.  Then another person will get involved in a RWAP with her.

I would PM her thanking her for the credit returned and telling her that I was donating the book to my local Senior Center. 

I would just do this, PM her, thank her for the credit, and say that you would like the postage credit first before you mail it back, but that you will be happy to mail it back with DC so that she can track it and know for sure that you returned it.

I have no problem sending back her damaged book. I just need help on how to word the response about getting a credit first before sending it back that doesn't sound defensive. She already sounds defensive, I just don't want to come across as defensive as she is.

Since you already received one credit for the unpostable book, "Thank you for refunding my credit for the unpostable book. As you know no water damage books can be posted under the guidelines and there is a difference between a book being "postable" and "readable". PBS has a set of guidelines all books must meet. I'd be happy to return the unpostable book to you provided that I am buddied a credit to cover the postage. Once I receive the credit and your address I can get the book mailed."

The issue is that she wants the member to return the book to her BEFORE she gives her a credit for sending the book back.  I wouldn't take a chance on her ever giving me the credit once she got the book back.

And if you read past the first line of my post, I'm sure you would have seen that this is just what I advised her to do.  It's good we're all on the same page.

Personally I wouldn't even send it back.  The only reason why she would want it back is so that she can post it again.  Then another person will get involved in a RWAP with her.

Or she might want it back, because she's worried the sender is going to get a credit back and then repost it. I know this isn't the case, but I've seen people post this suspicion on the forums before.

As for the response, I think I would just go for direct and not address condition or anything .  Something like:

"I will be happy to send the book back to as soon as I receive a credit to cover return postage.  Thank you for your prompt return of the initial credit and your  quick response".

Thank you Karen. That's what I'll send her. I'll let everyone know how this turns out.

I just checked my wishlist and found this. If she actually received the book from another member three weeks ago, wouldn't the last posted date be from Oct. 2010, instead of 2007?

Yeah, looks like she might be lying. It's probably not something you want to get into with her though. 

If she has any more questions or accusations, you'd probably do well to just copy/paste the site's guidelines back to her.

 I just hate it when their defense is that they received from another member in that condition.

Yeah, this always slays me too.  I'm thinking OK  so on your planet 2 wrongs DO make a right I guess.

PBS frowns upon members knowingly sending out unpostable books.  This member has acknowledged to you in a PM that she knew that the book was damaged before it was sent on to you.  Having "differing standards" doesn't cut it when there are clear cut postability rules, whether he/she "received it that way" or not.  I would forward those PM's along to TPTB.  Let them know that while they returned your original credit, the member is requesting the book's return and that they are insisting that you do that before giving you a credit for the postage.  PBS does periodically step in and explain the rules to members who do this, and it's good for them to have a record of it if this member has done this before to others.

It is actually a bit unclear in the rules regarding an RWAP as to when the poster needs to return a credit to cover return postage... I've run into this situation before myself.  I don't understand why another member would think that after receiving a damaged book from them (that they have admitted to having knowingly posted when it was damaged) and having to go through the hassle of getting your credit back that you would simply front the money for postage to return the book and then just "hope" that they will return another credit to you... They are the ones that violated the "honor system" in the first place!  I understand that anyone can make an honest mistake, but this member has admitted to knowingly posting an unpostable book.  Period.

I would also be afraid that this member would simply repost this book to another member and have another person go through the same headache that you currently are! 

I would advise that if they do end up giving you a credit for the postage to return the book, that you use DC to prove that it was returned. 

I just hate it when their defense is that they received from another member in that condition.  +2 

Ugh, pathetic excuse number 1 around here.  Maybe we should keep score somewhere, and chalk up another one every time this excuse is used for mailing an unpostable book.

I also like Karen's wording for a pm.  You can also cut and paste the official PBS guidelines, I'm sure it mentions #1 returning an RWAP book is optional, and #2 the original sender must cover return postage before not after (if the receiver agrees to the return).

Trust me, if she does give me a credit for sending the book back to her, I will using printable postage and DC. I'm also planning on taking pictures of the book before I mail it back.

She just sent me a credit. So the book will be packed up and will be taken to the post office later.

Another question. This was the only book in the system at the time. After I requested the book another member also put the book on their wishlist. This is a member that I know. Would it be wise to tell the other wisher about the condition of the book? I certainly don't want her to be burned.

It wouldn't hurt. If the same member posts it again, it's something that would need to be looked into. Although, somebody that just had to give back a credit, and another for shipping, would probably not try this again. Not if they're sane. There's too high a chance that they'll receive the same complaint all over again. They'll lose money on shipping again as well as another credit.

ETA: I'm always very curious about why someone would legitimately want a damaged book back, and is willing to hand over a second credit to get it. She isn't going to read it again or display it in her bookcase. Seems a waste.

I certainly hope she doesn't plan to repost it.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if she's planning on reposting it. Why would she ask for the book back if she wasn't going to repost it?

It seems really silly for a member to repost a book they had to pay to get back at the risk of getting it RWAPed again. I never assume they will re-post the book, I just assume they don't want the receiver to have their cake (book) and eat it too (refunded credit).