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Topic: Is this a Rwap?explanation updated.

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Subject: Is this a Rwap?explanation updated.
Date Posted: 6/7/2010 11:41 AM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2009
Posts: 10,212
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I have received  book with the bottom corner and last five pages torn off.  Its about 1/2" up & 1-1/4" over.  Missed the text because this book has very large margins.  Looks like cheap paper wavy pages not to bad.  Other wise in good shape.  Not sure how to mark it.  Seems there has been and epidemic of unpostables so I don't want to ignore it if the person should be told the condition is unacceptable.

Thanks for your help.

The cover and last five pages including some text pages are torn on the opening edge.  grab your book by the bottom corner including a few of the last pages and just tear them off is how it is.   My guess would be as it was being read it was knocked out of persons hand and torn. 

Last Edited on: 6/7/10 5:01 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/7/2010 12:09 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 10,245
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If the cover piece missing is less than about 1 square inch, it's OK. (doesn't have to be only an inch in a single direction, could be 2 inches X 1/2 inch, for example.)

If the missing pages are not text pages, that is OK too.

If the pages are text pages and they are ripped, that's not OK. You should RWAP if that is the case.

Date Posted: 6/7/2010 1:23 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,226
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I disagree with Sara.  (reread Sara's statement and I do agree with her on the issue of torn pages). The rules state:


  • No torn or chewed/gnawed pages

They don't say anything about needing to be the story pages, they just say no torn pages so IMO it should not have been posted.

Last Edited on: 6/7/10 2:27 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 6/7/2010 1:36 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
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I am with Melanie on the torn pages issue -- PBS does not distinguish between text and non-text pages in the "no tears" rule.  I would mark it RWP; requesting your credit be returned is, as always, at your discretion.



Date Posted: 6/7/2010 1:39 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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My take on this about the pages is - if the pages missing aren't text that's okay.

If the pages are present but torn then that is not okay.

Is the cover torn from an edge or from the spine?

Where are the pages torn?  If they can be removed because they aren't text pages I would consider that okay. If they are torn but can't be removed because they are text  - Not okay.


ETA - Obviously there is a difference of opinion here.

Last Edited on: 6/7/10 1:40 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 6/7/2010 2:23 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 10,245
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Yes, but if  non-text pages can be missing (and that is what it says in the rules) ... then you can make a book postable by neatly removing a ripped or torn non-text page.  IMO.

Yes, it is a little disingenuous to interpret the rules that way .. but it is exactly what the rules say, after all.

It wasn't clear to me from the OP's description whether or not the pages were missing completely or just ripped. Or whether or not the pages affected were text pages.

But, if you go by the rules, if they are missing but non-text, that is OK and postable. If they are ripped ... its not postable. Which is what I said above. But if they are ripped but non-text, you culd make the book postable by neatly removing them.

So, the only thing that is not postable is a book with ripped text pages. Because a book with ripped but non-text pages can be rendered postable again.

I believe that the intent of all of PBS condition rules are to prevent 1. gross books (mold, mildew, water damage, chewed, dirt and stains) and 2. unreadable books (missing text pages, ripped pages, writing and highlighting), and 3. falling apart books (broken spines, ripped up covers, loose pages, etc).

When there is a question of a gray area I always ask myself ... does this gray area flaw in the book make it gross in any way, or unreadable, or falling apart? if the answer is no, then I tend to believe that it is postable.

Date Posted: 6/7/2010 2:33 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,226
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Thanks for the clarification Sara, I re-read your statement and I do agree with you on the issue of books with torn pages not being postable.  I don't necessarily agree with taking a nonpostable book and making it postable by removing pages, but agree that because the rules neglect to state anything on missing non-text pages that one could interpret it that way.   In the OPs situation, she received an unpostable book IMO because she states that the pages were torn and that the tear is in the margins of pages with text on them. The rules on missing pages are irrelevant in her case IMO.