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Topic: Doesn't this seem kind of foolish?

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Subject: Doesn't this seem kind of foolish?
Date Posted: 1/17/2008 11:25 AM ET
Member Since: 10/6/2005
Posts: 10,707
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I have a "newer" member accusing me of sending her a badly damaged book. Now if I had sent her an older book she might get away with it but the book I sent her was one I bought at Borders just before Christmas and my mom and I are the only people who read it. There was absolutely no damage when I sent the book and it was just published in 2007 so it's not like it was even sitting around the bookstore for any length of time before I bought it.

I asked her if the book had been damaged by the post office but she says the wrapping was in perfect condition so the damage (she's claiming torn pages AND water damage) has to be my fault.

Seems to me like if you are going to try to "scam" credits this way, it's pretty dumb to do it when the book is so new that the sender is going to know you are lying. Plus she didn't mark it received with a problem, instead she PM'd me after the fact asking for her credit back. Which makes it seem even more suspicious IMHO.

And this was a heavily wish listed book so it's not something that she might be confusing the copy I sent her with a copy someone else sent her either. She mentioned the title of the book right in her PM to me, so she's not accidentally contacting me about a totally different book that someone else sent her.

This is like the 3rd or even 4th time this has happened to me and it is getting annoying. Makes me wonder if I have some kind of virtual "gullible" sign typed in neon letters over my head.

Date Posted: 1/17/2008 11:41 AM ET
Member Since: 11/11/2005
Posts: 5,238
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Wow - That's never happened to me (thankfully).

There probably are some members out there trying to "scam" other members out of a credit like this.  Or maybe even occasionally letting a book go lost just so they don't have to pay for it.   Hopefully they are few and far between.  

Personally, if I knew that a book I sent out was in good condition, I wouldn't give the credit back.  I've sent out several hundred books since I joined, and my track record with PBS would bear out that I don't send out unpostable books.  So if someone is so foolish as to try to accuse me of it, let them try.

So yes, I agree.  It's foolish.

Date Posted: 1/17/2008 11:47 AM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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If I know that the book was in postable condition, I won't give the credit back. Is there a chance it might have been ordered from someone else and that person didn't mark it mailed?

Date Posted: 1/17/2008 12:23 PM ET
Member Since: 10/6/2005
Posts: 10,707
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Jane it was a wish list book so I doubt it. Unless she had just had a copy go lost and got put back on the WL in the number one position, and it's the lost copy she actually received. I hadn't thought of that until just now and will ask her about it. But honestly since the book was just published a few months ago, someone would have really had to do a number on it to get it into the type of condition she described to me.

Date Posted: 1/17/2008 12:53 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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If I knew for a fact the book was not damaged I would not return the credit either. I would also recommend she check the wrapping for who sent it because it obviously was not the one you mailed. I just cannot see that it would be worth the effort to try to scam a credit from you by saying the book is damaged if it is like new. It seems like there's just got to be something else to explain it, I mean if they really wanted to scam someone, why wouldn't they just let it go lost.  I've wondered if some of my went lost were people looking to not have to give up a credit.

Date Posted: 1/17/2008 1:10 PM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2007
Posts: 5,526
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I would also ask for pictures as proof....just doesn't seem likely though with how new it is and not an older book.

do you think that she is confusing the book with another one that is older and could be damaged and for some reason thinks it is from you?

Date Posted: 1/17/2008 1:20 PM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 8,411
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Bren, if this type of thing happens to you often, you might consider taking a picture of it before you send it out.  Especially if you have a date stamp on the camara.  :)

Date Posted: 1/17/2008 4:43 PM ET
Member Since: 8/1/2007
Posts: 5,034
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Ask her to confirm the Mailing Address to make sure it came from you.  It might have come from someone else who mailed it but forgot to mark it mailed and then order went you.  You mailed one too.  It might be that she got the other book first and "thought" it was from you because yours in the "real" order. 

ETA:  Have her check her Transaction Archive to see there are any order showing cancelled for that book.



Last Edited on: 1/17/08 4:44 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/17/2008 4:51 PM ET
Member Since: 2/5/2007
Posts: 30,800
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I think it's a shame this happened to you Bren and I personally wouldn't ask her anything.  I'd TELL her I sent her a 2007 twice read book and that I was not going to refund her credit.  PERIOD    Why should you prove anything OR ask her to prove anything?   You didn't send a damanged book - she is scamming you - or trying to.  The best thing to do is just END IT.

Date Posted: 1/17/2008 7:11 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2007
Posts: 11,466
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I agree with Cozette.  Tell her you purchased the book new, it was read by two different people, and had absolutely no damage when it was sent out and you will not refund the credit.  Then end the conversation.  Don't reply to any more PMs about it.

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 1/17/2008 8:52 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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Quick note:  Not good to not respond to PMs, and it is against the rules to not respond to PMs requesting information from you.  If you want to end the back and forth of PMs, let them know it is your last word on the subject and they need to take it up with R&R after this.

But don't just ignore the PM, that could get YOU into trouble.

 

Date Posted: 1/17/2008 8:59 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2007
Posts: 11,466
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How would any futher PMs at that point be asking for information?  You say you're not giving the credit back and you're not discussing it further.  You're free to ignore any PM you want to.

Date Posted: 1/19/2008 12:57 AM ET
Member Since: 1/11/2006
Posts: 399
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Quick note:  Not good to not respond to PMs, and it is against the rules to not respond to PMs requesting information from you.  If you want to end the back and forth of PMs, let them know it is your last word on the subject and they need to take it up with R&R after this.

But don't just ignore the PM, that could get YOU into trouble.

I'm thinking no on this one - I'd appreciate a Help Center reference as I couldn't find one.

Date Posted: 1/19/2008 1:08 AM ET
Member Since: 10/30/2005
Posts: 3,562
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Karen are you wanting a Help Center reference to the not responding to PMs?

It is in the there is a problem with a book I received section:

If a book you requested with a credit arrives with a problem, you need to PM the sender (instructions below).  If the sender does not respond to your PM within a week, let us know.  Non-response to PMs that clearly ask for a response acts as a "double black mark" on a sender's account, and non-response from a sender after this pattern is established in his/her account will be taken as admission of fault.   We will intervene in those cases.

Date Posted: 1/19/2008 10:34 AM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,690
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As a recipient of a damaged book let me say there needs to be some sort of compromise and not everyone that reports a damaged books is "scamming".  Just yesterday I received a book that was way beyond being ok to post, I will have to clean and disinfect it because it has some sort of sticky black substance drooled over the front cover and while I could have lived with the gray/black stuff  (either mold or grease) on the page edges I'm not sure that that isn't mold.  The sender swears it was in perfect condition when she sent it and that she in no way was the cause of the damage but, the book was securely wrapped when I received it.  There was no damage to the wrapping, the book itself was wrapped in plastic inside the packaging...there were no tears or cuts in the outer wrapping so I know it was not damage from the USPS but, the sender swears it was not her fault and is refusing to refund my credit.  I certainly am not scamming as I have lots of credits, rather I feel I should not bear the brunt of receiving this unpostable book (looks like something from a dumpster).

Now for a question...is there any way to adjust your settings so that you won't receive books from such a sender again?  Like I'd like to block future transactions with this person...

 

Date Posted: 1/19/2008 10:58 AM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2005
Posts: 2,354
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Unfortunately, the only way to block a sender is to click on "Order more from member" and check the shelf to see who it is coming from.   If it is someone you don't want to order from you can cancel the order then.

Doesn't get you the book, but you can check from time to time and see if they aren't at the top of FIFO yet for the book.

Date Posted: 1/19/2008 2:21 PM ET
Member Since: 5/10/2007
Posts: 5,526
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Christy, add that sender to your buddy list and then there is a tag feature where you can put a note to not trade with them any more.  That is the only way to do it and you'll just have to watch who your books are coming from and  know who you don't want to receive books from in the future

Date Posted: 1/20/2008 4:03 AM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,327
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Also, check the return address to be sure it's from the same person you are PMing.  It's possible that someone sent a bad book, forgot to mark it mailed, so that transaction was cancelled and passed on to sender #2 who sent a good book that is still in the mail.

Date Posted: 1/20/2008 2:43 PM ET
Member Since: 8/8/2006
Posts: 182
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i got accused to scamming someone recently, and i found her comments to be very offensive. i too have a ton of credits. the book arrived and as soon as i laid it down, it flopped open to the cleaved spine. i PM'ed the sender, and she sent back a PM with the scamming accusation. the book was old (not at all like your book, Bren) and the wrapper was fine, so i KNOW that it was like that before it was mailed to me. she did not return my credit., and she said that she was going to report me to R & R, that it was people like me that ruin a club like PBS. i asked R & R to monitor our PM conversation, and they wrote back saying that they were going to be watching her account and that i handled it politely. phew.

so, this stuff happens. it gave me a very bad feeling for a while, but like others have said, the VAST majority of my trades have been wonderful. i keep a list on the "buddy" section of people i should not trade with. should call it the "buddy NOT" list!

Date Posted: 1/20/2008 4:41 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,690
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well, after the initial contact with the sender (she didn't accuse me of scamming) she won't respond to any of my PM's.  I looked up the procedure in the Help Center and after a week of not responding to my PM's I will pass it off to R&R and just let them watch her transactions. 

I'm going to clean and disinfect this book and after I read it I'll offer it as a freebee with another book from my shelf.  Is there some way that anyone marks their books that are non-postable so that someone down the line doesn't post it? 

I've added her to my "Buddy Not" list so, I can watch future transactions and I won't accept any books from her or send her any books.

Had a funny thing happen, I don't think this person did it on purpose but, I had sent a member a wrong book, she wanted it anyway but, I did send her the correct one and she gave me a credit for each one...so that all worked out fine.  Then a month later I received the wrong book from a member and guess what...it was the same member...so, the old saying goes, what goes around comes around...and yes, we worked it out all nice and friendly, she is now on my "Buddy" list.

Date Posted: 1/20/2008 5:19 PM ET
Member Since: 8/8/2006
Posts: 182
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that's hilarious, christy! what's the chance of that happening?! i usually don't think of the "what goes around comes around" as being so literally translated :-).

yea, am tempted with some of the upoststable books i have received to mark with big, black magic marker "UNPOSTABLE" so that there would be no one tempted to do so in the future....and now that i have been burned a few times, i look at the books i receive over and over again in good light to be sure that i can mark them as received without any damage. older and wiser.

Date Posted: 1/20/2008 5:32 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,690
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Yeah, think I'm gonna start marking my unpostable books with a black marker somewhere on the book so somewhere down the line someone else can't decide to post it and scam someone out of a point...Anyone Else For This?

Subject: Im lenient
Date Posted: 1/24/2008 1:51 PM ET
Member Since: 4/23/2006
Posts: 19
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I guess Im lenient on the unpostable thing.  The book has to be REALLY bad for me not to just accept it.  If I want to read the story Im not going to worry so much about a 2 inch tear in the cover or a small stain on a page.  I've been trading for a couple years now and I have yet to receive a book that I thought was so horrible I could not read it.  If I want something new I'll buy it new.  I don't think I would want a book that someone wrote on with black magic marker though.  Whats unpostable to you may be ok with me and I may want to pass it on to someone not on the list without marker on it.  If you write unpostable on it... then you wouldnt repost it anyway so how would it end up back in circulation anyway?  If its that bad throw it out!

Date Posted: 1/24/2008 2:52 PM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2008
Posts: 204
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My first orders are rolling in and they're fine...thank you. .All I ask is that a book doesn't look like a baby shark used it as a teething ring.

Unfortunately, sender and receiver will eventually disagree on condition. Should pbs do what other swap sites do where we grade each item in our inventory on a scale ranging from "like new" to "acceptable" and possibly include comments?

 

L. G. (L)
Date Posted: 1/24/2008 3:07 PM ET
Member Since: 9/5/2005
Posts: 12,412
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Christy, I mark the damaged books I offer in the Book Bazaar "Book Bazaar" in big black letters along the edge.  I once found someone had listed a damaged book I sent them (or the same title, at least) so I started doing this.

 

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